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What is the best technique for waterboarding a jeep?

Ecomike

NAXJA# 2091
NAXJA Member
Location
MilkyWay Galaxy
Waterboarding (LOL) meaning injecting pure water (distilled) into the intake to clean carbon out of the head, off the valves, etc.

Any known tricks to doing it out there?

Anyone tried a blend of water and something else? Like alcohols?
 
While that technique works, it is old school. I recommend running a can of BG44K through your fuel. Not only does it clean the injectors, it will get rid of a ton of carbon.

Some folks do the Seafoam down the throttle body technique. Do a search.
 
I already ran a can of gumout in the gas tank, full tank already, and down the throttle body. I don't think there is much real difference in the BG44K, Gumout and Seafoam formulas. But I plan to recheck the MSDS sheets to see. They are typically Acetone, MEK, Toluene, Acetate, Alcohol blends.

My engine got way worse after running the gum out down the intake, so I decided to finally try distilled (pure) water for once.

While that technique works, it is old school. I recommend running a can of BG44K through your fuel. Not only does it clean the injectors, it will get rid of a ton of carbon.

Some folks do the Seafoam down the throttle body technique. Do a search.
 
Injection systems have been around forever but their benefit wasn't cleaning action. I had one on a SB Chevy back in the 70's, but it was there to reduce IAT's and help prevent detonation from the increase in the mass intake charge resulting in higher combustion chamber pressures! Back then they could do more damage than good!
 
Having been in the commercial fuel additive business for 10 years, there are differences. We did numerous tests. I even have a camera for looking in the cylinders. This is why I recommend BG44K. The closest to that is Chevron Techron. If you read the fine print on BG44K, they actually license some of Chevron's additives.

Water down the intake is hard on an engine. I have done it dozens of times over the last 50 years. Back when we had leaded gas, buildups were a lot worse, namely on the back of the valves. The trick was to get the motor good and hot. We would take a Coke bottle full of water and pour it down the carb while another person controlled the throttle. The point was to try and keep the rpm's up around 2k or more and not have the engine die, while pouring the water down the intake. The theory is that the thermal shock of the water would cause the carbon to flake off and it would be blown out the tail pipe. I can attest to having seen large chunks of carbon exiting the vehicle. Having said that, I have also seen carbon get wedged between the piston and the cylinder wall, and even a bent valve. It is not without its risks.

Having said all of that, what is your reason for wanting to resort to this? Since no lead fuel, I haven't seen a motor that BG44K wouldn't clean up. I have a fair amount of black buildup on the inside of my intake, but that is due to reversion caused by the overlap in timing between the intake and exhaust on the performance cam I run.
 
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Windshield wiper fluid through a meth injection system.

I was thinking of that, methanol and water, or Isopropyl alcohol (70% IPA from the pharmacy). I can build a methanol/water injection atomization system from all the lab equipment stuff I have laying around for free.

But what results did you compared to other methods? Or have you tried it before? Any dangers? I imagine not.
 
You show a vid of a guy wasting his motor, have you tried magnetizing your fuel line yet?
 
I run it pre supercharger. When I had the manifolds off during the install of the SC I took pictures of the intake and exhaust valves. I did no other cleaning other than removing the large carbon chunks from the port openings. Eventually I will open it back up if I decide to duplicate the riser and adapter plates OR I blow it up.

The methanol is running through a snow performance nozzle 175ml/min *rated at 40psi* it comes on around 5 to 7psi. I run the splash red fluid PN 234926. About 32 to 35% methanol.
 
I already ran a can of gumout in the gas tank, full tank already, and down the throttle body. I don't think there is much real difference in the BG44K, Gumout and Seafoam formulas. But I plan to recheck the MSDS sheets to see. They are typically Acetone, MEK, Toluene, Acetate, Alcohol blends.

My engine got way worse after running the gum out down the intake, so I decided to finally try distilled (pure) water for once.

The difference in them is HUGE.

44K works and seafoam doesn't.

I use 44k for the fuel delivery system and water to clean combustion chambers.
 
OMG, way to over complicate things Mike.

Get a 32 ounce convenience store drink cup.

Fill it with tap water. Run the engine at 2000 RPM and drizzle the water down the throttle body at a rate that keeps the engine burbling a bit between 1500 and 2000 RPM.
 
OMG, way to over complicate things Mike.

Get a 32 ounce convenience store drink cup.

Fill it with tap water. Run the engine at 2000 RPM and drizzle the water down the throttle body at a rate that keeps the engine burbling a bit between 1500 and 2000 RPM.
Yup, a 32 oz cup for a 390 CI engine was all the water I used.

That first video is almost comical:
As old_man stated, the theory is the temperature differential created by introducing water to a hot combustion chamber breaks the carbon loose. All the time he ran the engine at a reduced operating temperature was a waste.
Then, when he found water in the crank case, he did not use the Seafoam to help flush the water. Had he read the labeling on the can, he would have known that is one of the primary uses for Seafoam. ;)
 
Are you suggesting the BG44K for use down the intake like Seafoam, or in the gas tank?

Ingredient wise BG44K is just a blend of various fractions of mineral spirits and xylenes. Seems they are using less volatile components like Stoddard solvent (and old Exxon name brand of mineral spirits) (less volatile than gasoline) in the formula so that some of it ends up wet in the combustion system in the off cycle(?) long enough to wet the carbon?

http://msdsdigital.com/system/files/208_3.pdf

I know from my chemistry background that high pressure super-heated steam and oxygen can accelerate oxidation of hard to burn stuff like carbon. Google Super critical water and wet air oxidation... Also high pressure super heated water (plus O2) tends to break up into very aggressive OH* free radicals that can eat away at carbon or most anything that can be oxidized. So I suspect people are under estimating the effect of smaller feed rates of water. It also may be safer than the thermal shock, liquid water bouncing around idea?

Just thinking out loud here.

The B-12 I used is 80% acetone, and 10% of a glycol ether EB (the water soluble solvent used in 409 that works so well...)

https://www.berrymanproducts.com/assets/1AA-CA11-0110C-0113C-0117C-0120C-0152-SDS.pdf

LOL, Seafoam is about 25% IPA, drug store Isopropyl Alcohol, and the rest listed as a "hydrocarbon blend", trade secret, LOL, in other words Kerosene, mineral spirits, or any one of a dozen other names. I bet diesel fuel would even work.

Chevron Techron is also a range of Mineral spirits, light oil and 1-5 Xylene.

http://www.barbieritrucking.com/uploads/1/4/6/1/14614916/chevron_techron_concentrate_plus.pdf

So they are not the same.

One is high in Acetone, B-12. Two are mostly mineral spirits distillate blends/light oils, Chevron Techron and BG44K, and the Seafoam is up to 25 IPA alcohol and the rest a mineral spirits blend.

I can emulsify some water and mineral spirits and IPA-alcohol/methanol with the Glycol Ether EB solvent one of then is using. And make a use all these ingredients at the same time. Hmm. BTW Glycol Ether EB is great at cleaning carbon from ovens!!!! The key ingredient is Fantastic and 409 household cleaner. The Glycol ether EB is a solvent and emulsifier, both solvent and water soluble, polar and non-polar..... Alcohol is soluble in both also. More so in water, but....

Still looking for others posts on their experiences please!!!!

Having been in the commercial fuel additive business for 10 years, there are differences. We did numerous tests. I even have a camera for looking in the cylinders. This is why I recommend BG44K. The closest to that is Chevron Techron. If you read the fine print on BG44K, they actually license some of Chevron's additives.

Water down the intake is hard on an engine. I have done it dozens of times over the last 50 years. Back when we had leaded gas, buildups were a lot worse, namely on the back of the valves. The trick was to get the motor good and hot. We would take a Coke bottle full of water and pour it down the carb while another person controlled the throttle. The point was to try and keep the rpm's up around 2k or more and not have the engine die, while pouring the water down the intake. The theory is that the thermal shock of the water would cause the carbon to flake off and it would be blown out the tail pipe. I can attest to having seen large chunks of carbon exiting the vehicle. Having said that, I have also seen carbon get wedged between the piston and the cylinder wall, and even a bent valve. It is not without its risks.

Having said all of that, what is your reason for wanting to resort to this? Since no lead fuel, I haven't seen a motor that BG44K wouldn't clean up. I have a fair amount of black buildup on the inside of my intake, but that is due to reversion caused by the overlap in timing between the intake and exhaust on the performance cam I run.
 
I though it was worth sharing for many reasons, glad you liked it. I used very little water in my feed for 20 minutes, I was following my posted theory below, and the rough idle did smooth out some, including the cold start the next day. But not yet good enough.

Think about the old high temp low pressure steam cleaners of 5 decades ago!!!! Steam Jenny!!

When cleaning a carbon fouled thing, I like to presoak it with about 98% water and 2% Glycol Ether EB for an hour (the main ingredient in Fantastic and 409 house hold cleaner, they work great on cleaning barbecue crud, carbon!!). Then steam clean or hot water pressure wash. Other additives beef it some, but the GEEB is the real trick. I think the presoak is what is going on with Seafoam, BK44K-? and others.

I may try the Seafoam I have on had next, then follow it up with a water feed. Use the Seafoam to help chemically soften (partly dissolve) the carbon, then use the water to help clean it up and out of the head.

Interesting that Seafoam was the only one using an alcohol!!!!

In case anyone is wondering, I was a formula chemist in the 1980's for products like these, for the rebuilding industry, etc.....I still do some of it. I liked the term Snake oil in those days, LOL.


Yup, a 32 oz cup for a 390 CI engine was all the water I used.

That first video is almost comical:
As old_man stated, the theory is the temperature differential created by introducing water to a hot combustion chamber breaks the carbon loose. All the time he ran the engine at a reduced operating temperature was a waste.
Then, when he found water in the crank case, he did not use the Seafoam to help flush the water. Had he read the labeling on the can, he would have known that is one of the primary uses for Seafoam. ;)
 
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So, of all the solvents you listed, which will best lubricate the upper cylinder?
 
The difference in them is HUGE.

44K works and seafoam doesn't.

I use 44k for the fuel delivery system and water to clean combustion chambers.

Seafoam does not work where? In the throttle, or in the fuel line, or both?

That is interesting since Seafoam is mostly something like mineral spirits and some IPA alcohol. 44K is mostly a mineral spirits and xylene.

44K would not be able to emulsify and remove water from a gas tank (based on the ingredients), but Seafoam would.
 
So, of all the solvents you listed, which will best lubricate the upper cylinder?

Impossible to say for sure, as they do not tell us enough about the mineral spirits like formulas in all of them, but the BG-44K does indicate up to about 40% heavy hydrotreated oil (petroleum Naptha). So my guess would be BG0-44K

Why?

It would certainly lube the guts of fuel injectors!!!!

IIRC diesel fuel is good carbon cleaner?
 
So, of all the solvents you listed, which will best lubricate the upper cylinder?


On second thought, Acetone, IPA alcohol and xylenes in the others would remove any lube, so the BG-44k would be the big the winner on that question as it is less than 2% aggressive solvent (xylene). But the BG-44k MSDS is missing 22% of the ingredients? The table only adds up to a max of 77.5%

Why did you ask?
 
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