thoughts on remote transmission oil cooler?

currently have my transmission oil cooler sitting in front of my rad.
I'm replacing the rad this weekend (long story, there's a thread in here somewhere), and while I have everything out I'm thinking of moving the transmission oil cooler somewhere else.. I've seen some mount it on the front skid plate (the one in the very front, thatprotects the underside of the radiator).
Any other thoughts?

It can work anywhere as long as it has good airflow and it somewhat protected.

that's pretty much what I'm asking... looking for inspiration. Where have others remote mounted transmission coolers? Inside the engine bay seems out, too crowded and can't mount it far away enough from the headers.

in front of the radiator and condenser if you have one. put it in front of the E fan. wire the E fan to an override switch... this way you can power it constant on when on the trail, but with the switch off, the E fan still operates as intended.

VAhasnoWAVES said:

in front of the radiator and condenser if you have one. put it in front of the E fan. wire the E fan to an override switch... this way you can power it constant on when on the trail, but with the switch off, the E fan still operates as intended.

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Thanks. It's already in front of the radiator and condenser. (take a look at first sentence of Op ) I'd like to move it somewhere other than in front of the rad, and looking for what others have done. I know 4wheeler mag put one in the front radiator skid plate, that may be the the best place, but anyone have luck with putting it anywhere else?

Also considering one of those round coolers-- look like they may fit in tighter places, like on the frame rail.

Anyway... if anyone has had any luck with putting the oil cooler anywhere other than in front of the rad/condenser, let me know.

are you having cooling issues with its current location?

VAhasnoWAVES said:

are you having cooling issues with its current location?

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no issues with the transmission being cool, but see op. I'm replacing the rad this weekend. Chasing down an overheating problem. I doubt the transmission cooler is the issue, but I'm sure it's contributing, and since I'm going to have everything out, I'm considering a remote location.

All I'm looking for are insights from people that have actually done this-- if it's easy and I'm just missing a convenient spot, or it's people have done it and think it's a terrible idea, I'd like to know. looking for real world experience.

Do you have anything on your bumper? Winch, lights, anything that might be covering part of the grill?

I don't really see any immediate advantage to mounting the cooler anywhere but between the radiator and grill. I have mine mounted there and I've never come close to overheating.

Putting it on the outside of the lower skid plate seems like a terrible idea to me. It gets that cooler down really low and in a vulnerable spot of off road obstacles and on road debris. As well, if you ever need to work on your steering, it leads to a second level of complexity to get that skid plate off for accessibility.

Just my gut speaking here, but I can't believe that your transmission cooler is causing or contributing to your overheating.

Cottontail said:

Do you have anything on your bumper? Winch, lights, anything that might be covering part of the grill?

I don't really see any immediate advantage to mounting the cooler anywhere but between the radiator and grill. I have mine mounted there and I've never come close to overheating.

Putting it on the outside of the lower skid plate seems like a terrible idea to me. It gets that cooler down really low and in a vulnerable spot of off road obstacles and on road debris. As well, if you ever need to work on your steering, it leads to a second level of complexity to get that skid plate off for accessibility.

Just my gut speaking here, but I can't believe that your transmission cooler is causing or contributing to your overheating.

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I have a fairly complicated thread on the overheating issue (http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1132469) , was trying to avoid repeating it. suffice to say I've pretty much tried everything, the manufacturer has agreed to send me a new rad to eliminate that as a potential issue, so while I'm pulling everything out I'm thinking of putting the oil cooler in a remote area. I'm running a 350sbc/700r4, and keeping the engine cool has been a challenge. I don't think the oil cooler is causing the issue, but put this in the bucket of "if it's easy to do and isn't going to make things worse I'll try it". If this turns out to be a complete nightmare, with minimal impact, and I'm going to regret doing it, I'll ditch the idea, but it's something I want to at least consider.

Anyway, I'd like to hear from people who have actually done this and get a sense of real-world experience.

Anyway, I wasn't thinking of mounting it on the OUTSIDE of the skid, I was planning on mounting it on the inside of the rad skid, so it will be completely protected, with a puller fan on it. (like this: http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/t...tomatic-transmission-cooling-tips-and-tricks/) I saw 4wheeler did the same thing. I know others have remote mounted so... without rehashing the overheating issue, has anyone ever mounted an oil cooler remotely before and if so, where?

Real world experience says you don't need to move it. If it's small enough, you can mount it to the cross member below the radiator, but then you lose the benefit of the fans and if you have a solid bumper, airflow is marginal. I run mine solo on the passenger side with the A/C running on max in 100*+ weather and the only time my temp goes over 210 now is when I'm climbing a long grade. And even then, it only gets a hair above and nowhere near the next tick mark.
From what I've seen in cooling posts on this forum and others that I've read from the last 15-20 years, if you have cooling issues, getting the stock setup working will almost guaranteed fix your cooling problem, even on the heavily modified rigs.

Check radiator (I know you're replacing it, hopefully with OE or OE HD)
New radiator cap
Check water pump
195* thermostat
Hoses
Bypass heater core to check it. If problem goes away, time to try to flush it and if that doesn't work, time to replace
Fan clutch
Is e-fan coming on around 220? (Ive seen 215 to 225 listed. doesn't need to be exact)
Fan shrouds
Get some foaming condenser cleaner and clean it out for good airflow when you have the radiator our.
Is an exhaust header leak contributing to excess heat?
Is your gearing appropriate for your tire size? (3.55's on 33's will make everything generate more heat)
Are you running really lean? (Never heard this being an issue here but it's a killer on my bike so I would check this if all else fails)

dan1977p said:

Real world experience says you don't need to move it. If it's small enough, you can mount it to the cross member below the radiator, but then you lose the benefit of the fans and if you have a solid bumper, airflow is marginal. I run mine solo on the passenger side with the A/C running on max in 100*+ weather and the only time my temp goes over 210 now is when I'm climbing a long grade. And even then, it only gets a hair above and nowhere near the next tick mark.
From what I've seen in cooling posts on this forum and others that I've read from the last 15-20 years, if you have cooling issues, getting the stock setup working will almost guaranteed fix your cooling problem, even on the heavily modified rigs.

Check radiator (I know you're replacing it, hopefully with OE or OE HD)
New radiator cap
Check water pump
195* thermostat
Hoses
Bypass heater core to check it. If problem goes away, time to try to flush it and if that doesn't work, time to replace
Fan clutch
Is e-fan coming on around 220? (Ive seen 215 to 225 listed. doesn't need to be exact)
Fan shrouds
Get some foaming condenser cleaner and clean it out for good airflow when you have the radiator our.
Is an exhaust header leak contributing to excess heat?
Is your gearing appropriate for your tire size? (3.55's on 33's will make everything generate more heat)
Are you running really lean? (Never heard this being an issue here but it's a killer on my bike so I would check this if all else fails)

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thanks for the advice. A very detailed discussion of my overheating issue, and what I've done, is here: http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1132469

If anyone has actually tried a remote cooling location, I'd love to hear from you.

jmg222 said:

thanks for the advice. A very detailed discussion of my overheating issue, and what I've done, is here: http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1132469

If anyone has actually tried a remote cooling location, I'd love to hear from you.

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Had all the info already been given, I think most folks would have different answers.

I tried remote location. Temps were higher than if left in stock location. Went back to where the engineers who designed the cooling system wanted the trans cooler to go. Trans cooler and engine doesn't overheat. Don't run a 350 SBC but if I did, everything listed would still apply.

dan1977p said:

Had all the info already been given, I think most folks would have different answers.

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I thought I had in the OP (and if not, at least in post 9), but glad we cleared it up. :cheers:

I tried remote location. Temps were higher than if left in stock location. Went back to where the engineers who designed the cooling system wanted the trans cooler to go. Trans cooler and engine doesn't overheat. Don't run a 350 SBC but if I did, everything listed would still apply.

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Thanks. Moving the oil cooler may also let me run a thicker rad, but not sure I want to spend another $800 on another one. Like I said, just evaluating options.
What location did you try?

On the cross member below the radiator. Without the fans pulling fresh air, it was worse in slow conditions.

dan1977p said:

Without the fans pulling fresh air, it was worse in slow conditions.

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Right.. I'm considering a B&M trans cooler unit with a spal fan attached.
Even if mounting it remotely doesn't work, may see if I can keep it in stock location and use the fan as a pusher supplement (though probably really don't have the room for that).

There are people who have installed oil coolers under the front bumper.

http://www.go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoAutoCooler.htm

I have a 11" x 5-3/4" x 1-1/2" 14,500 btu B&M flat aluminium plate design installed on the radiator in front of the aux. fan. The plates are angled and wide enough apart air passes through. Doesn't appear to create a lot of air blockage. I suppose you could perform different tests to determine effect on air flow and temperature.

I remember reading a number of years ago from a Jeep service manual. Temperature test procedures for the XJ's viscous fan using a small temperature sensor installed in the top portion of a shroud. I suppose could be applied to the radiator and aux fan, while stopped or running. You would cut a small hole in the top of the aux. fan shroud and install a temperature sensor probe, with some sort of readout inside the cab. Then drive the XJ with and without the aux fan running to determine air temperature changes inside the shroud. You could also at the same time monitor changes of temperatures of the transmission oil using oil temp gauge sensors, installed to the oil cooler lines.

Jeep XJ's OEM radiators, some are listed with and without max cooling. Not know what this meant, a Jeep forum user contacted Jeep. Several weeks later, after Jeep techs researched, he was sent a reply. The reply essentially said that OE max. cooling means the OEM radiator does not have a built-in transmission cooler.
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WITH Max Cooling means the radiator will NOT include a Transmission Cooler. There will not be an input & output for transmission lines. This radiator is applicable to Jeep XJ's with a Manual Transmission or any model that came stock with an external Transmission Cooler. Current OEM Radiator WITH Max Cooling: 5191929AA. This radiator will be less expensive without the Transmission Cooler.

WITHOUT Max Cooling means the radiator will include a Transmission Cooler. There will be an input and output for transmission lines. Current OEM Radiator WITHOUT MAX Cooling: 52079682AF
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Does this mean better cooling is achieved for both the engine and transmission when the transmission cooler lines are installed directly to the external transmission oil cooler bypassing the radiator? Or perhaps better engine cooling is achieved when there is no radiator oil cooler installed?

I currently have my external oil cooler installed along with the radiator's oil cooler.

Transmission ===> radiator oil cooler ====> trans oil cooler ====> transmission

I'm thinking of installing the B&M trans oil cooler separate from the radiator which may result in both the engine and transmission to run cooler.

I remember reading from a AW4 service manual the operating temperature range of an AW4, but couldn't remember exactly what I read. The article http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/t...tomatic-transmission-cooling-tips-and-tricks/ Notes the operating range for the AW4 is 125-176 degrees. I'm assuming this is a temperature range for normal driving without towing, heavy sand, steep inclines, etc. Perhaps under a certain range of ambient temperature.

For any transmission warm-up problems, the B&M cooler has a low temperature bypass valve that prevents flow of cold fluid, until the transmission and atf has had a chance to warm up.

The b&m super cooler is rather large and heavy, you will need to fab up brackets to mount it. You can't (or, shouldn't) just mount it to the radiator with the little zip tie things. Other than that, it's Bitchin, albeit kinda loud (I had mine mounter to the drivers side rear side window)

No way in hell I would continue pushing fluid thru the radiator circuit after installing a manly Fluid cooler like the b&m! Maybe if one lived in the artic...

moot point, I have a novak radiator with no hook ups for an internal oil cooler.

xcm said:

The b&m super cooler is rather large and heavy, you will need to fab up brackets to mount it. You can't (or, shouldn't) just mount it to the radiator with the little zip tie things. Other than that, it's Bitchin, albeit kinda loud (I had mine mounter to the drivers side rear side window)

No way in hell I would continue pushing fluid thru the radiator circuit after installing a manly Fluid cooler like the b&m! Maybe if one lived in the artic...

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My B&M, approx. 11" x 5" once installed doesn't appear to be too large. I'm not certain how much air flow blockage it creates. Engine temperatures dropped by one to two degrees after installation. I also installed a manual over-ride switch for the aux. fan, which helps to lower both engine and transmission temperatures.

When I have time I'm going to disconnect from the radiator oil cooler to see if there is any difference in engine temperatures. Perhaps install a transmission oil temperature gauge to determine transmission temperature.

I could try installing the oil cooler underneath the front bumper. I do some towing but not much as the XJ can't really handle much tongue weight above 500 lbs. Though a stock XJ is rated to handle up to 5000 lbs with weight distribution gear, is really only able to tow consistently up to around 2,000 to 2,500 lbs.
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Not to become off-topic as an transmission oil cooler relates to towing.

I have a ta 6 x 12 cargo trailer, when the payload is somewhere above dry and below 5,000 lbs the XJ with heavy duty shocks and springs can't handle the trailers TW. When the trailer is mostly dry it tows ok.

I have an off-road trailer, dry weighs 800 lbs, loaded potentially weighs up to around ~1800 lbs. Even with HD springs and shocks I wouldn't want to tow off-road much over 2,000 lbs with the XJ. Less around from around ~1,000 - ~1,500 lbs would be even better.

The AW4 transmission does ok while towing but normally shifts in and out between 3rd and 4th gear while on the freeway. Perhaps if re-geared would tow better. IIRC correctly Jeep used to have tow packages where the XJ was geared at 3.73.
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I suppose if the XJ was beefed up it would be able to tow much better. I remember a number of years ago a guy came into a 4x4 shop with a Jeep that was either a XJ or CJ. He had an upgraded suspension lift using Dana 80's. The Jeep ran well, I think he must have put alot of money into the conversion for the new axles, suspension, brakes and steering.

I specifically remember Dana 80 axle swaps on CJ's but can't remember off-handle details for ones on XJ's. I would need to stop at the 4x4 shop to ask the shop owner, who does different types of conversions for both Jeeps and Land Cruisers.

You're correct about the installation on the radiator. The better location is closer to the front grill, away from the radiator, which allows for better air flow.

I may when I have the time do a re-installation away from the radiator and monitor for any differences in engine temperatures. Perhaps also install an oil cooler sensor with gauge.

I just don't do much towing with the XJ. Off-road and when in heavy sand very rarely has the engine temperature gone above 210. I can recall once or twice, brief moments where engine temperatures went barely over 210, while in heavy sand and ambient temperatures in the high 90s. I live in a moderate climate where temperatures in the 80s is considered to be too hot.