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death wobble from tires?

md21722

NAXJA Forum User
Location
TN
I have this death wobble or variant thereof that occurs on the highway going over uneven pavement or bump. Most likely to happen above 55MPH. The steering wheel starts shaking you know something is going on, and then you must slow down to 40MPH or less for it to stop. If I hit a manhole cover just right at 40-45MPH in town, I will feel the steering wheel shimmy back and forth a few times, but at that point I'm not going fast enough for it to be a real problem.

I've read that tire balance or out of round can cause death wobble. What I'd like to understand is how bad does the balance have to be for this to occur? Apart from wobble set off under certain conditions, the tires feel fine to me. And I'm pretty sensitive to vibration. Tires are Goodyear Wrangler Radials 235/75R15 on Ecco wheels. Everything in the suspension and steering is pretty recent, except for the steering box. I'm going to check for loose bolts but I normally use a torque wrench when replacing suspension parts like control arms/bushings. I'm also tempted to swap on my old tires and rims to see if it changes the problem. They are 235/75R15 BFG A/T on factory steelies. Only other point worth mentioning is that the rear leafs have a big sag to them. I plan on lifting this Jeep have been putting it off a bit. Would like to be able to drive it on the highway to work without problems before the lift. Interestingly, the problem usually occurs at or very near the office, and especially on the way home. The Northbound and Westbound lanes I take in the morning are arguably smoother. But I also wonder if heat generated by driving doesn't affect the problem.. My trip to the office is 77 miles each way. I only do it a few times a month.
 
Tire issues can trigger a death wobble episode, but the root cause of DW is the same every time.

DW is not usually caused by one single item on the list below, it occurs when a combination of weak, damaged, failed, or out of specification steering/suspension items on the list are present.

Entire list of everything that can cause death wobble:
- Loose, worn, or incorrectly torqued suspension nuts/bolts
- Front alignment out of spec
- Loose track bar
- Worn track bar bushing
- Worn track bar end
- Worn track bar bolt hole on axle
- Needing an adjustable track bar
- Bad bushings/joints in control arms
- Damaged control arms or control arm mounts
- Worn/damaged shocks
- Worn/damaged tie rod ends
- Bad U Joint
- Bad ball joint
- Loose track bar frame mount
- Worn track bar frame mount
- Steering box looseness
- Bad front hub assembly
- Bent axle housing
 
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All the control arms were changed in 2014 and still look good. Torque is good. U-joints do not have play and don't bind up. Hubs are good. I replaced the drag link under warranry. I noticed channel locks could compress the ball stud into the joint more than a new one.

My steering stabilizer and gear seem questionable.

I have a small about of play at the output shaft and can make it clunk. Small is 1/16-1/8". Is any allowed here? Steering feels tight from the wheel. I wouldn't call the steering loose.

In think I'm going to have the front tires road force tested. I suspect at least one is slightly out of balance.
 
I don't want to change a steering box unless I have a way to test and validate if its a possible cause.

I am still leaning towards the tires/stabilizer because the vehicle seems to need to be driven for some miles before shimmies start up. I can drive over every manhole cover right out of my neighborhood for 5 miles and its as solid as my other Jeep (speed here is about 45 MPH). Then I can get on the highway I can drive for a bunch of miles on the interstate (65-75 MPH) and its still solid. But after a bunch of miles, the uneven road surfaces start causing the shimmy though I'm going slow enough (50-60 MPH) for it not to develop into a full out problem. So I believe that time driving which would warm parts like tires is leading to this.

The only part I'm sure is not good is the stabilizer because it tends to move in skips. The shocks move smoothly through their full movement.

I'd like to know about about the steering box if possible. The stuff I've read so far about play is having 1-3" of play at the steering wheel.

Thanks.
 
I had death wobble when I hit bumps at one time. I replaced the steering stabilizer first but it wasen't it. My tires were not balanced. I got them balanced and it fixed the problem.
 
i had DW on smooth roads when it transitioned from asphalt to cement.
like mentioned above, each component needs to be at a certain level of usable condition. bushings at both ends, and correct tightness etc etc. dont overlook the upper arms either.
and a good stabilizer is important too. for the reason, it can stop or slow the initial oscillation.
 
I changed all those arms/bushings about a year and a half ago. They were torqued to book spec and still tight. Hubs are fairly recent and still check OK. u-joints don't bind and don't have slop. The things I haven't checked are the tires for broken belts or balance (but I can feel balance) and the actual bolts/mounts that hold the track bar & steering box in place.

I rotated the tires and I get no more problems from the right side. I actually introduced a tire vibration in the left side particularly around 60-70 MPH. It smooths out once you get to about 80. And when I hit something in left side of the lane, that's the tire that starts oscillating (before it felt like the right with a road crack, etc towards the right side of the lane). So I think its just the tires. They are some Goodyear Wrangler Radials I bought to use short term. I've just never seen anything like this before, but I've never used Bad years before. I believe they have a weak sidewall and are just cheaply made. Its definitely better than it was yesterday and I went on a longer test drive.
 
Track bar has been replaced with a good spare and then again with new under warranty because the original had a slight amount of roughness at the frame end. I tighten the axle side bolt to 65 ft-lbs. Not sure an M10 bolt should be any higher than that.
 
Track bar has been replaced with a good spare and then again with new under warranty because the original had a slight amount of roughness at the frame end. I tighten the axle side bolt to 65 ft-lbs. Not sure an M10 bolt should be any higher than that.
I forget the torque spec (thinking 75 ft-lbs), but I snapped one trying to get there. The replacement did survive the torque wrench. :)
 
I have seen multiple DW problems stemming from bad tires, including my own. I might have missed it, but if your tires are nearing worn out, I'd suspect them ( you said you rotated them and it changed).
 
I have seen multiple DW problems stemming from bad tires, including my own. I might have missed it, but if your tires are nearing worn out, I'd suspect them ( you said you rotated them and it changed).

Like the man said, DW isn't caused by tires. They may trigger the oscillation, but the root cause is not the tires.

Historically, from my experience in helping lots of folks get rid of their problem, if you have done a one person check on all the joints, you need to progress to having someone rock the steering wheel back and forth while you are under the vehicle. Watch each and EVERY joint for any movement. On older vehicles, I have seen lots of holes 'egged' out and bushings with their mounting bolts, moving back and forth. I have yet to see a vehicle that this would not show up the problem. One had me stumped for a while and it turned out to be shot rear spring bushings.
 
Tom,

Are you saying that rear springs that are shot could cause death wobble/shimmy that requires slowing the vehicle down to go away? Because my rear springs are definitely shot. I had good ones but sold them and swapped in these junky springs pending a lift. Once it occurs, I slow down to 40 until it stops, then resume driving. Usually takes about 45 minutes of driving for this to occur the first time. Even if driving over every manhole cover and road crack. Then the slightest crack or unevenness in the road can set it off. After no problems the night before, and rotating tires again to see about a balance issue in the front left, and going over the rear suspension finding some loose bolts, I had the shimmy again after about 45 minutes on the road.

It's because it takes a while for it to show up that I'm suspecting the tires. Its like something has to heat up before it happens and I'm figuring that's tires.

Today I'm getting my old tires out of storage and going to try them out.
 
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My 01 XJ FSM says 40 ft-lb!
I dug out my Haynes manual: "Track Bar-to-Axle Bracket Nut.........74"

I thought that sounded bat-shite-crazy, I looked at the bolt again. It has 10.9 stamped into the head. The first bolt broke under the torque wrench, the second one is still working. I came to the conclusion the engineers specifying that was intentional.

Since I heard these are no longer available new, I have a handful of spares from the junkyard. I make sure to have a few in my trail spares when I go play.
 
I put my old, worn BFG tires on today and while its a harsher ride from the worn tires, there are no shimmies.
 
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