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Noob alignment question

D

Daven75

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Plainfield, IL
Ok guys, I've had a slight issue for a while now. I have a 2000 XJ Sport with about 162k miles on it. I got new tires not too long ago and they've been feathering like crazy on the outside of the tires on the front. I've rotated the tires and gotten it aligned by a shop. Not sure if the alignment is still off or what. I had death wobble at one point but the track bar solved that.

Now, I nailed some train tracks accidentally a while ago and thats what caused my DW. I possible dented two rims, I replaced one that just wouldn't balance but the other wasn't too bad. I have a slight shake at 50-55mph and I think its cause by the feathering/possibly the alignment. Not 100% sure where to start.

Everything on the front end looks tight, so I'm not sure where to go from here. I'm going to get my friends old rims/tires and I wanna solve this before I get those tires and not ruin them.So do you guys think the alignment wasn't done properly? Any other ideas?

Sorry for the long winded story. lol

Thanks!
 
Lots of issues there. Can't really tell from your post what is current and what might have been resolved.

Also would be helpful if you listed your suspension, wheels, tires and steering set up.

There are tons of threads on DW diagnosis. You would basically have to take a logical process of elimination approach to diagnose and correct.

1) tire wear and balance
2) loose components (track bar, drag link, tie-rod, ball joints, etc.)
3) alignment - toe
4) alignment - caster (if lifted)
5) bent axle
6)
7)
Etc, etc.
 
88trailcrawler said:
Lots of issues there. Can't really tell from your post what is current and what might have been resolved.

Also would be helpful if you listed your suspension, wheels, tires and steering set up.

There are tons of threads on DW diagnosis. You would basically have to take a logical process of elimination approach to diagnose and correct.

1) tire wear and balance
2) loose components (track bar, drag link, tie-rod, ball joints, etc.)
3) alignment - toe
4) alignment - caster (if lifted)
5) bent axle
6)
7)
Etc, etc.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I worded my post very poorly. I do not have DW anymore. The track bar solved that. Its the Feathering on the outside of the tire I'm having issues with. The jeep is 100% bone stock. No upgrades at all to the steering/suspension. stock wheels, 215/75/15 tires.
 
Feathering on the outside can indicate many things but most common is incorrect toe. Most likely the toe is set too positive or too far in and dragging the outside of the tire down the road a smidge. Also bad front end components can cause this as the suspension parts move while you are going down the road preventing a good solid tire placement on the road. Bad wheel bearings and shocks usually cause inside feathering and chopping but check them anyways.
 
My old 87 would do that with Wrangler radial "P" tires. Seemed to be fine with a truck tire (stiffer sidewalls) and little more tire pressure. I typically run a couple of pounds higher pressure in my fronts than what is recommended.

When you are turning, the tires don't track together exactly, this is part of what helps the steering wheel come back to the center after a turn. Part of it is the geometry of the front linkages, part is the caster angle.

Poor front shocks can add to the problem, as can bad wheel bearings (hubs) or most any front steering linage joint. I call it hop skip, what most XJ's do in a low speed really tight or full lock turn. They tend to hop skip anyway at full lock, it gets worse with worn suspension parts.

I'd take a close look at the drag link connection at the pitman arm. Seems to me just about the time I had to replace the trac bar, the pitman arm top joint got loose around the same time, on three different XJ's. And that hop skip thing the XJ does on tight (full lock) slow speed corners got worse.
 
joejeep92 said:
Feathering on the outside can indicate many things but most common is incorrect toe. Most likely the toe is set too positive or too far in and dragging the outside of the tire down the road a smidge. Also bad front end components can cause this as the suspension parts move while you are going down the road preventing a good solid tire placement on the road. Bad wheel bearings and shocks usually cause inside feathering and chopping but check them anyways.
Click to expand...

I'll check my toe today and get pics for you guys. I also have a feeling my shocks aren't helping the situation with being the originals I think.

8Mud said:
My old 87 would do that with Wrangler radial "P" tires. Seemed to be fine with a truck tire (stiffer sidewalls) and little more tire pressure. I typically run a couple of pounds higher pressure in my fronts than what is recommended.

When you are turning, the tires don't track together exactly, this is part of what helps the steering wheel come back to the center after a turn. Part of it is the geometry of the front linkages, part is the caster angle.

Poor front shocks can add to the problem, as can bad wheel bearings (hubs) or most any front steering linage joint. I call it hop skip, what most XJ's do in a low speed really tight or full lock turn. They tend to hop skip anyway at full lock, it gets worse with worn suspension parts.

I'd take a close look at the drag link connection at the pitman arm. Seems to me just about the time I had to replace the trac bar, the pitman arm top joint got loose around the same time, on three different XJ's. And that hop skip thing the XJ does on tight (full lock) slow speed corners got worse.
Click to expand...

Well, its possible it could be the tires. I guess we'll find out and I'll get the measurements of the toe and go from there and report back to you guys tonight!
 
Bad shocks tend to cause cupping. Is the feathering the same all the way around the tire? Equal on both driver and passenger side?

When you check your toe, measure to the rim, not the tire. Do it with the wheels on the ground first, then put both sides up on jack stands and measure again.
 
old_man said:
Bad shocks tend to cause cupping. Is the feathering the same all the way around the tire? Equal on both driver and passenger side?

When you check your toe, measure to the rim, not the tire. Do it with the wheels on the ground first, then put both sides up on jack stands and measure again.
Click to expand...

The feathering is even on both front tires. All the same. I didn't know your supposed to check out that way. Maybe I'll check it tomorrow or Saturday to make sure it's right
 
X2 on toe most likely being the cause of the scrubbing.

I always measure at the tire tread and aim for 1/16 to 1/8" of toe.

Pick the same height front and back of the tire where the frame won't interfere with the tape. Choose the same point from the edge of the tire.

If you measure at the rim, a 1/8" inch measurement will be more like 1/4" at the tread.

The OEM figures are in degrees, but most folks shoot for that 1/16 to 1/8" I mentioned.

Don't forget to center the wheel by adjusting the drag link, the. Recheck the toe because they interact with each other on a Y setup.

-Ron
 
WB9YZU said:
X2 on toe most likely being the cause of the scrubbing.

I always measure at the tire tread and aim for 1/16 to 1/8" of toe.

Pick the same height front and back of the tire where the frame won't interfere with the tape. Choose the same point from the edge of the tire.

If you measure at the rim, a 1/8" inch measurement will be more like 1/4" at the tread.

The OEM figures are in degrees, but most folks shoot for that 1/16 to 1/8" I mentioned.

Don't forget to center the wheel by adjusting the drag link, the. Recheck the toe because they interact with each other on a Y setup.

-Ron
Click to expand...
1/8th to 1/16th toe in or out?
 
in.

if you're looking for a more precise method get some angle, drill some holes and bolt it to the studs.
 
Then take it back...and tell them. However there is no way tapes in the front yard is going to be as accurate as a good alignment machine. I would be willing to pay for the alignment because tires are expensive. I may be biased because I have an aligner but toe has not been done in inches for years...it is done in degrees which is WAY more accurate. For a crawler fine but for a DD especially one that sees highway I would feel way more comfortable with it up on the rack...
 
joejeep92 said:
Then take it back...and tell them. However there is no way tapes in the front yard is going to be as accurate as a good alignment machine. I would be willing to pay for the alignment because tires are expensive. I may be biased because I have an aligner but toe has not been done in inches for years...it is done in degrees which is WAY more accurate. For a crawler fine but for a DD especially one that sees highway I would feel way more comfortable with it up on the rack...
Click to expand...

Well I'm happy you would feel more comfortable.

There are those of us that are quite competent enough to do an alignment on a solid axled vehicle in the driveway and not have any issues.

maybe I should take my junk to the shop to swap axles or do a lift.
 
Sorry to offend you manche however I never challenged your competency. I challenged the accuracy of your methods. Not saying it is uncommon to do it this way and you probably have good results and I hope you keep having them but I'm just saying for the sake of accuracy they sell alignment racks for a reason.
 
joejeep92 said:
Then take it back...and tell them. However there is no way tapes in the front yard is going to be as accurate as a good alignment machine. I would be willing to pay for the alignment because tires are expensive. I may be biased because I have an aligner but toe has not been done in inches for years...it is done in degrees which is WAY more accurate. For a crawler fine but for a DD especially one that sees highway I would feel way more comfortable with it up on the rack...
Click to expand...

Again, I got it aligned a while ago, I don't even remember how long ago it was that long. I would if I knew when and be able to talk to the guy. I'll just pay to have it done, I never said I'd be doing the alignment myself by tape measure but just checking it wont hurt.
 
I second taking it back (if the alignment was recent). My customers wouldn't accept accelerated tire wear after a recent alignment, you shouldn't either.

If they got your toe set just inside the spec range as opposed to ideal, it could cause accelerated wear, but still be considered "good".

There is also the possibility that their equipment may have been out of calibration at the time you had it done.

That being said, grabbing a tape measure and checking the old fasioned way isn't going to hurt anything and should give you an idea if the toe is way out or not.




At the mileage you mentioned, the rear may be sagging enough to affect the geometry up front. Is it likely, probably not. but stranger things have happened.

Upon further thought, the axle might possibly be bent. I bought Buster with a bent axle, and no matter how many times I set the toe, He ate through tires like crazy.

I ended up swapping the gears into a used housing.
 
Last edited:
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