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Please review my dream build(s)

M

Mirage mobile

NAXJA Forum User
Location
MO
Going to post my dream paper build to get it out of my head.
Theme = Expedition/Reliability/Right_the_first_time/Daily Driver

Please provide cost saving suggestions, hahaha.

~4" Lift
Below is an excel file displaying three options to achieve the ~4" lift.
I'd appreciate some major assistance here if possible.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwSfzmD_P6KxM0xobjh6RnBSdHM/edit?usp=sharing

Tire
This will be my DD.
I've put 10,000 miles on since June 2012.
Located in central virginia, so I expect minimal ice/snow.
Initially leaned AT KO for tread life, noise, less maintenance(?). Debating those now after realizing how little I drive.

1. 33x10.5 BFG KM2
2. 33x10.5 BFG AT KO


Wheel
15x8
1. Stock Eccos and spidertrax spacers (4.5" net backspacing)
2. Mamba MR1X (4.5" net backspacing)
3. AR-23 (3.75" net backspacing)

Axles
- Grabbing a Chrysler 8.25 or Ford 8.8 to replace my D35
- Gearing of 3.73 or 4.10 (prefer 3.73 using gear calcs but 4.10 D30 and Chrysler 8.25 sound easier to find).
- Leaning towards F/R Detroit Truetrac or R (truetrac) and F (e-locker)

Below is an excel spreadsheet comparing axle costs. There doesn't appear to be an inexpensive route to go (JY 8.8 vs 8.8 EastCoastGears vs. JY Chrysler 8.25.
Please review my costs of these options.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwSfzmD_P6KxZEFsTVZkR2szTUU/edit?usp=sharing


Rear bumper
I'd like to incorporate the ability to add rotopax in the future to either the rear bumper or a roof rack. May have the ability to use DIY kits.
In no order:
1. Detours full tire carrier
2. Detours tailbone
3. JCR tire carrier
4. AJ Tanker
5. Dirtbound tire carrier
6. Hanson Tire Carrier

Front Bumper
May have the ability to use DIY kits.
In no order:
1. JCR Pre-runner

Sliders
In no order:
1. Detour
2. JCR
3. AJ
4. TNT

Steering
Whats necessary after ~4" lift and 33x10.5s?


Thanks for looking
 
for 33's you should be running 4.56 gears. 4.10s would be ok, 3.73's would suck almost as bad as 3.55's. You will get your best gas mileage from the 4.56's.

Consider a dana 44 from an XJ, they bolt in and have great parts support.

4" will need a transfer case drop, or an SYE/ Double cardan driveshaft.

Oh, before anything put frame stiffeners on it.
 
Last edited:
Some people always gotta make things so complicated.
 
markw said:
for 33's you should be running 4.56 gears. 4.10s would be ok, 3.73's would suck almost as bad as 3.55's. You will get your best gas mileage from the 4.56's.

Consider a dana 44 from an XJ, they bolt in and have great parts support.

4" will need a transfer case drop, or an SYE/ Double cardan driveshaft.

Oh, before anything put frame stiffeners on it.
Click to expand...

Grimm's gear calc shows the AX-15 + 33s + 3.73s has 20% slower crawl speed in 1st and 2nd than the AW4 + 33s +4.56s. What am I missing here to imply 3.73s would suck?
I have the AX-15. After reading ops experience on here, 4.10s should be more than enough for a DD on light and narrow BFGs that run ~32.5".


I didn't put the D44 on the list due to scarcity, but I will see if I can find one.
My axle document includes the cost of SYE+DS.

bluejeepkid said:
Some people always gotta make things so complicated.
Click to expand...

What's wrong about making a comparison of what's available before jumping in? I want to perform a significant upgrade all at once.

souske said:
Don't discount the mtr-k for an aggressive tire with much better road manners than the km2
Click to expand...

I would go MT/R-K if they came in 33x10.5 R15. I've driven both 33x10.5 and 33x12.5 tires (albeit KM2s and AT KOs, respectively) on cherokees and would prefer to stay narrow.
 
Last edited:
Mirage mobile said:
Grimm's gear calc shows the AX-15 + 33s + 3.73s has 20% slower crawl speed in 1st and 2nd than the AW4 + 33s +4.56s. What am I missing here to imply 3.73s would suck?
Click to expand...

Forget crawl speed and calculate for the highway. You want to shoot for 2200-2500 RPM's highway for a loaded rig, otherwise you're always lugging the motor and burning up too much fuel.

ax15/3.73/285's 65 mph is 1960 rpm
aw4/4.56/285's 65 mph is 2275 rpm

At 1960 RPM with the weight of a loaded expedition rig, you're going to be at 2/3 throttle to just maintain speed. It will run hot on combs and burn throuhg fuel.


Mirage mobile said:
I didn't put the D44 on the list due to scarcity, but I will see if I can find one.
My axle document includes the cost of SYE+DS.
Click to expand...

scarcity? There are 2-3 for sale on naxja for $300 almost every day, and I see one every second or third trip to the junkyard.
 
I am running P285/75R16 tires that work out to 32.8" in rolling diameter. I am running 4.56 gears with a Detroit locker in the back. The Heep has the AW4 transmission. Final gearing on this thing, as compared to a stock Jeep is 10.9% lower. What used to take 2,500 RPM on the hiway, now takes 2,750 RPM. A nearly negligible difference.

Would I change the gearing if money was no object?

No.

For a DD, IMO this is the best compromise available. If the rig was going to see use as a primary trail vehicle shorter gears would be appropriate. I had thought about just using 4.11s (which, IMO are good for a manual transmission equipped Heep...) and rely on my Supercharger to move it down the road.

But then, common sense intruded. Why work the engine harder than needs be?

So, given that you run the manual, 4.10s (4.11s) will be fine. I ran that combination on the '97 I had. I would, however, strongly suggest that you put better brakes on the project list. I converted to rear disc when the Currie axle went in the back. I have better front brakes on the "to do" list.

Keep in mind that in addition to the larger diameter (harder on the brakes) the weight of the tire is much more which adds to the braking force required to stop. IMO, the easiest way to convert the 8.25 axle is to use the brakes off of a Liberty. Same axle, and there are threads around here somewhere...

I am running Dirtbound bumpers at both ends. Both work just fine. I chose the Dirtbound back bumper because it ties into the frame rail, not just the rear sill as do most of the other do. Extra support.

A SYE will be required. IMO, dropping the transfer case creates problems, does not solve them. Extra load is placed upon the engine mounts which will lead to failure sooner rather than later. Plus, you give up ground clearance. What sense does it make to raise up 4" then promptly take one inch away? Just asking here...

I am running a set of Rock Lizard Sliders that were custom made to fit my Long Arm front suspension. They were a favour to me and are not commercially available. Too bad as they are a great design. Spendy though...

I can appreciate the narrow tire wish. Was going that way myself and wound up with what I have only due to cost. Turned out to be a better price at the time. For a DD, narrow tires (ala an Expedition Jeep) are actually preferable as the mileage will be better.

So, there is my $0.02. For whatever it is worth.

Ultimately, it is your rig and only you needs be happy with it.
 
 
cal said:
Forget crawl speed and calculate for the highway. You want to shoot for 2200-2500 RPM's highway for a loaded rig, otherwise you're always lugging the motor and burning up too much fuel.

ax15/3.73/285's 65 mph is 1960 rpm
aw4/4.56/285's 65 mph is 2275 rpm

At 1960 RPM with the weight of a loaded expedition rig, you're going to be at 2/3 throttle to just maintain speed. It will run hot on combs and burn throuhg fuel.

scarcity? There are 2-3 for sale on naxja for $300 almost every day, and I see one every second or third trip to the junkyard.
Click to expand...

4.10s it is.

I've been unable to determine if a 29 spline Chrysler 8.25 with 4.10s came from the factory. Anyone know?

I haven't purchased anything through the FST sections yet. Thanks for the recommendation.

O-Gauge Steamer said:
So, there is my $0.02. For whatever it is worth.

Ultimately, it is your rig and only you needs be happy with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight!

bluejeepkid said:
Nothing is wrong. We just get at least one new thread a week that's just about the exact same as this one. And every question you've asked has been asked and answered numerous times in other threads.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how "some people make it so complicated" = "This topic is posted too frequently" ??

What I really want to learn from everyone is:

1. If you were going to build a ~4" short arm lift with a balance between ride quality and performance, would your part selection be similar one of the options I laid out?
2. Are there any holes in what I've selected?
 
If you want to DD it and "expo" (road trip + dirt) your Jeep, I'd stick to 1 or 2" lift. Think "upcountry" and you won't spend much money, you won't introduce new problems, you won't be wearing out parts, you won't have to think about it hardly at all.
If you have a bit over 2 grand to spend on suspension and really want / need 4" of lift, as your spreadsheet indicates, I'd go with the Full Traction 3.5" long arm kit.
A bit less? Make sure you get drop brackets and shackle relocation.
Also check out Froehlich Suspension (spelling?) - I really like their stuff. No firsthand experience, though.
 
So, something like these Jeeps?



I drive the blue one every day, Matt drives the silver one daily. Built similar minus mine having a full roll cage now and I have 33" KM2's. I drove 3100+ miles from My home in Indiana to Utah and back and Matt drove from STL to Colorado and his dad hauled it the rest of the way. I think you have a pretty decent plan in your head to make a nice Jeep!

Still very capable at only 3" of lift



I have 4.10's with my AW4, i agree with the others in saying that 4.10's are a good ratio with the AX15. Its not bad here in Indiana but in the mountains my Jeep was pissed. I will eventually go to 4.56's
 
Last edited:
souske said:
Don't discount the mtr-k for an aggressive tire with much better road manners than the km2
Click to expand...

After Moab I finally get the Kevlar fascination, those thing flat out grab!
 
I like AJ rear bumper but seems pretty heavy. 130lb. Add the tire and you have almost 200lb. Too much for a DD IMHO.

For the front the JCR (with winch) is my first option, just looks a little to large.

I have an AX15 with 3.07 and 31". Is not ideal but in mud and sand works decently. I will regear to 4.56 (to eventually put 33" or 35") but first I need to change the D35. Unfortunately I can't find D44 from XJ for $300 (outside USA).
 
1st
I know this was said already but the main hole I see is stiffeners. Do them first before anything. It frequently gets overlooked on mild rigs. I overlooked it and I'm regretting it.

2nd
Take it from an experienced bfg at user. You will want more tire. I have seen the mtr-ks in action and will be moving there myself. They are dd able and grip like crazy. If you like a bit narrower tire. Go with a narrower rim. Stock eccos are 7" wide fyi. I run 35 bfg ats on mine and they work great down to about 10psi. I have leaked a bead at that pressure but not lost one.

3rd
Stay as low as you can. I know 4" doesn't seem like a lot but you will want drop brackets. Which add to cost and complexity of build. If you can stay on stock mounting points 3" or less, your ride will be better without the need for dbs.

4th
Belly skids are essential IMO.
Strong and high as possible.

5th
Go with currie steering. Pure beef and great for a dd.

Good luck with this venture. And do a build thread.
 
Marcelo73 said:
I like AJ rear bumper but seems pretty heavy. 130lb. Add the tire and you have almost 200lb. Too much for a DD IMHO.
Click to expand...

I've DD'd mine for almost 4 years with a tire carrier bumper. Still got 19-20 on the highway with 400lbs. Of armor. Not gonna happen anymore with the hybrid cage but it really Isn't that bad. So much more room in the back and you don't have to lift a tire off the roof. Carrying a 33 in the back takes up a lot of space.
 
FlexdXJ said:
I've DD'd mine for almost 4 years with a tire carrier bumper. Still got 19-20 on the highway with 400lbs. Of armor. Not gonna happen anymore with the hybrid cage but it really Isn't that bad. So much more room in the back and you don't have to lift a tire off the roof. Carrying a 33 in the back takes up a lot of space.
Click to expand...

I pay 2 dollars per 1l (1/4 gallon) of gas. I don't even have spare :D
 
Marcelo73 said:
I pay 2 dollars per 1l (1/4 gallon) of gas. I don't even have spare :D
Click to expand...
Haha, oh didn't see your location......and we think $4/gallon is steep.
 
GordoSmasho said:
1st
I know this was said already but the main hole I see is stiffeners. Do them first before anything. It frequently gets overlooked on mild rigs. I overlooked it and I'm regretting it.

2nd
Take it from an experienced bfg at user. You will want more tire. I have seen the mtr-ks in action and will be moving there myself. They are dd able and grip like crazy. If you like a bit narrower tire. Go with a narrower rim. Stock eccos are 7" wide fyi. I run 35 bfg ats on mine and they work great down to about 10psi. I have leaked a bead at that pressure but not lost one.

3rd
Stay as low as you can. I know 4" doesn't seem like a lot but you will want drop brackets. Which add to cost and complexity of build. If you can stay on stock mounting points 3" or less, your ride will be better without the need for dbs.

4th
Belly skids are essential IMO.
Strong and high as possible.

5th
Go with currie steering. Pure beef and great for a dd.

Good luck with this venture. And do a build thread.
Click to expand...

You make very good points! :cheers:
 
Mirage mobile said:
4.10s it is.
Click to expand...

With a 33" tire and a 5 speed, 4:56 gearing will net you your better performance/mileage than 4:10's. With an auto, use 4:88 gears. Gear calculation charts are best used for TP, as they never factor in all of the variables associated with a lifted, modified rig, such as:

Added weight of HD bumpers, frame stiffeners, armor, full size spare, winch, trail gear, spare parts, camping equip, tools, etc.

Increased wind resistance due to lifting rig 4-6"

Increased rolling resistance due to larger tire foot print, heavier tire/wheel combo

Elevation and terrain where rig is most frequently operated.

Power loss due to age of engine

Girth of driver/passenger
 
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