Ground up DD/Trail Rig XJ build, need HELP!

Ok I know this is my first post here, and I know that most communities like for you to have a couple of posts before a post like this so I apologize in advance.

For a Brief introduction I am CJ, 28 from Cartersville and I am probably about to take on a project way over my head lol. My brother recently bought an XJ and I fell in love with it, Ive had a few Wranglers but never a cherokee. So Friday I sold my Titan, Banked the cash, and am in search of a good XJ (have my eyes on a couple now.)

After buying the jeep my build budget should be somewhere between $5000 and $7000 and this will be my DD. I am looking at 99-01 XJ's and I want it to be a DD/Weekend warrior trail rig. Trying to build as trail capable as possible without killing on road ability. I dont want to cut any corners, and want to use the best equipment out there.

Now my question for you guys is, if you were in my situation with a stock XJ and lets say $7000 and your end goal was a good trail rig on 33's, where would you start? What items are necessity and which ones can wait? Id like to do the full build here and will post pics as I go, I have been lurking here for several weeks and know there is a ton of knowledge.

Thanks in advance for any advice!!

My experience would say go with Rubicon Express for your lift kit, something in the ballpark of 4"-4.5" with sway bar disconnects. That should allow you to fit 30"-31" tires easily with little to no trimming. I'd go with 3.73 gears with that setup for a general purpose DD, and you should still have plenty of power in 4lo while off-road. As far as lockers, you'll probably get the most bang for your buck with either an Aussie, Powertrax Lock-Rite, or Spartan 'lunchbox' locker in the front. Probably the same in the rear if funds allow. Do some research to find out which ones are quietest on-road because I honestly can't remember... Although I run Powertrax in my trail-rig. You may or may not need a slip-yoke eliminator... It'll be hard to tell until after you drive it after the lift is installed, every XJ is different it seems.

Go read my build thread "ORS build. What a silly little Jeep". I'm doing exactly that. Building a Jeep that can hang with the buggies and guys of 40" tires while still DD it 600 miles a week.

Link
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1102177

Thanks for the quick response guys!


I've been reading a lot about the rubicon express lift kits and they seem pretty solid. And if I'm not mistaken if I go with that 4.5 and bushwhacker cut outs I should clear 33's easily.

I'm gunna have to do some research into gears, I want the best possible fuel mileage I can get so I wanna get that right.

I've never wheeled a vehicle really, mainly just four wheelers so all of this is new to me, that's why I'm trying to tap into the experience here.

The XJ Project said:

Thanks for the quick response guys!


I've been reading a lot about the rubicon express lift kits and they seem pretty solid. And if I'm not mistaken if I go with that 4.5 and bushwhacker cut outs I should clear 33's easily.

I'm gunna have to do some research into gears, I want the best possible fuel mileage I can get so I wanna get that right.

I've never wheeled a vehicle really, mainly just four wheelers so all of this is new to me, that's why I'm trying to tap into the experience here.

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If you want to wheel it, I don't recommend any radius arm lift or bushwhackers. The flares will just fall off on the trail and radius arm lifts bind really bad when flexing which leads to worn out bushings and joints. Find a 3 link.

If you are wanting to run 33's go 4.56. 4.88's have too small of a pinion and will break too easily. 4.10's would be okay, but you'll be a lot happier with the 4.56's.

And you don't need anything over 3" to clear 33's. Keep it as low as you can. It will keep it stable off road and it will drive better on road. That's why I'm not even lifting mine.

The XJ Project said:

Now my question for you guys is, if you were in my situation with a stock XJ and lets say $7000 and your end goal was a good trail rig on 33's, where would you start? !

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Since you're looking for the newer style XJ, there's no reason to avoid the 97-98 model at all.

Ronbo said:

Since you're looking for the newer style XJ, there's no reason to avoid the 97-98 model at all.

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Not really avoiding them, just trying to find one with fairly low miles. The 97-98's I see are all over 200k

Action Fab said:

If you want to wheel it, I don't recommend any radius arm lift or bushwhackers. The flares will just fall off on the trail and radius arm lifts bind really bad when flexing which leads to worn out bushings and joints. Find a 3 link.

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I didn't realize that about the bushwhackers, guess that's why you see so many fenders trimmed with no flares

I need to get more details but this seems like a decent start

2000 jeep cherokee 4x4 - trade $5000

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/3918600576.html

^ Seems like a good base to work with except its got that rather large dent in the left rear quarter under the glass. Would offer much less than what they are asking. Plus the miles would drop the price slightly.

Go 99, you get a high pinion 30 instead of the stupid low pinion on the 2000+, If memory serves you don't get the 0331 head that cracks.

I'd also try to factor an 03-04 wj knuckle and brake swap into the budget. Wish I had done this years ago, but there wasn't much info on it back then, and now I'm close to swapping axles anyways. You get better higher steering and bigger brakes with 2 piston calipers. Search threads here

Also zj or kj disc brake swap on the rear, grab the prop valve from the zj. If you do that and the 2 piston akebono wj calipers up front you may wanna swap to a Durango master cylinder, which is a 1 1/8" bore instead of the 1" bore on the XJ. This is all off the top of my head, some years and models may be wrong but search on here for details.

If you go with the AW4 tranny I'd go ahead and plan on as big an auxiliary tranny cooler you can fit and bypass the radiator if you live in a warmer climate.

Frame stiffeners front to rear.

I'd skip short arms if you want nice road manners. May not be necessary at only 3", but you will never stay there. It's more expensive now, but when I moved to LA I swapped out my RE arms from the rock krawler kit.

In fact you may just wanna piece the left together. RE has solid products and what my lift started as. If I did it over again is probably start with deaver/Alcan/national leaves in the rear, the shackle relocation kit, extended shackle and bilsteins for the rear. Up front maybe deaver progressive coils, bilsteins, WJ knuckles, ruff stuff steering, and your favorite brand of long arm/cross member.

Don't forget to beef the steering box area, maybe a track bar brace. Tranny skid, try to find or build a belly pan like TNTs

philagony94xj said:

^ Seems like a good base to work with except its got that rather large dent in the left rear quarter under the glass. Would offer much less than what they are asking. Plus the miles would drop the price slightly.

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Yea I backed out on that one, more research into that rear damage was more than I wanted to deal with.

I found a bone stock 2000 with 122k miles that an old man owns I'm going to look at tomorrow, I think I can get it for 3500 and all it needs to be a perfect running jeep they said is tires(which are going to be changed anyway)

Nccherokee such an informative post!!! The response I've got in less than 24 hours is amazing, this community is great.

Hopefully I will pick up that stock xj tomorrow and then the fun begins

Yeah when I bought my 2nd XJ after returning from a WJ, I wanted LOW miles and 98-99 year range. I found a 98 w/100k auto for 3000. They are out there, just have to be patient and keep your eyes open.

I honestly wouldn't worry about the mileage if you are wanting to mod it. You'll end up replacing most everything soon enough anyway.

philagony94xj said:

Yeah when I bought my 2nd XJ after returning from a WJ, I wanted LOW miles and 98-99 year range. I found a 98 w/100k auto for 3000. They are out there, just have to be patient and keep your eyes open.

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/\ /\ THIS. They're still out there, just have to be willing to wait and keep looking. I bought a bone stock '98 with 63k miles less than two years ago. I searched Craigslist and Auto Trader for months before I found what I wanted. I'm at 85k now, but that's still pretty low miles for a 15 year old vehicle.

Action Fab said:

If you want to wheel it, I don't recommend any radius arm lift or bushwhackers. The flares will just fall off on the trail and radius arm lifts bind really bad when flexing which leads to worn out bushings and joints. Find a 3 link.

If you are wanting to run 33's go 4.56. 4.88's have too small of a pinion and will break too easily. 4.10's would be okay, but you'll be a lot happier with the 4.56's.

And you don't need anything over 3" to clear 33's. Keep it as low as you can. It will keep it stable off road and it will drive better on road. That's why I'm not even lifting mine.

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I see people saying this all the time, but in my experience its the ring gear that gets too small. my pinion was in ok shape after I grenaded the 4.88 ring gear on my 30. I would be worried about pinion, id be worried about tiny ring gear teeth breaking off like mine.

The ring gear teeth break because there are less pinion teeth because it's too small. There isn't as much gear contact to disperse the load. Smaller contact patch = more PSI. And due to the angle the pinion sits on the ring, the teeth on the pinion are bigger and thus the ring teeth break. But the reason they break IS because the pinion head is too small and there's not a big enough contact patch to disperse the load.

Action Fab said:

The ring gear teeth break because there are less pinion teeth because it's too small. There isn't as much gear contact to disperse the load. Smaller contact patch = more PSI. And due to the angle the pinion sits on the ring, the teeth on the pinion are bigger and thus the ring teeth break. But the reason they break IS because the pinion head is too small and there's not a big enough contact patch to disperse the load.

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ah. that makes much more sense. thanks for the good info there. I moved onto a hp44.

I ran up on a 2000 model today with 53k miles. The guy bought if for a trail rig and has done some stuff to it. With me not knowing a lot about Suspension and stuff I am kinda leery about it but I was planning on replacing a lot of stuff anyway so I dont know that it really matters.

I guess my big question is what in the suspension/drivetrain could he have messed up that I would need to be on the lookout for. He has a 4.5" rustys short arm kit on it now that I would probably replace, from what Ive heard Id prefer long arm over short arm.

He is also running 33's and hasnt changed the gears, but even on a stock one Id be putting in the 4.56 so I didnt see that as a problem.

It has the 8.25 rearend and he has a spare aswell, and he said its welded so that shouldnt be an issue from what Ive read.

Sorry Im still trying to learn a lot of this. This jeep is just a low mileage jeep that is cheeper than most others for sale just because its ugly cosmetically ( which isnt a problem for me as my father in law owns a paint shop) Im just lost on a lot of this suspension stuff as this is my first build, Im reading up online but a lot of it is greek to me.

Right now this one is built to be a trailer queen/crawler. But it runs like a champ and has a lot of bare potential and Im thinking it would be a good starting point as I may be able to use some of his parts. Id like to build something that drives more like a trophy truck with some flex.

Any advice?