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XJ alignment questions.

blistovmhz

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Vancouver, BC
Just lifted my 98 xj another 2" to 6.5" total (RC long arm kit).

History: My front driver wheel has had more negative camber than the passenger side since I bought it. Had a 4.5-5.5" RE short arm lift on before but it was thrashed. Upgraded to the LA kit a few weeks ago.

Problems:
  • Passenger side wheel bearing is howling.
  • Jeep pulls to the left at highway speeds.
  • Ball joints may be a little loose. When I lift the wheel, it'll move about 1mm on both sides.
  • (more a concern) front drivers wheel camber is more negative than passenger side.

So these things together.... I thought at first that my caster was just out when it started pulling left after the lift. At the same time, I noticed the noise from the passenger side, which got much louder after the past weekends wheelin'. Noise starts at about 40km/h and get's REAL loud by 100km. I felt the hub after driving 10km at highway speed, but it's no warmer on either side.
I don't know if the previous owner installed offset ball joints. Could be a bent C, or just offset ball joints. Was going to order new wheel bearings/hubs, ball joints, and set my caster, but figure I should throw the question out to the Internets first.

I can't imagine the wheel noise is caster related (someone let me know if I'm missing something), so I figure it's gotta be a bad wheel bearing. I figure if one wheel bearing is bad, the other may be as well. If the drivers side bearing is shot, is there any way it could present with negative camber? If so, I suppose I should replace the hubs first, and then measure camber (with the new hubs) to determine if I'll need special offset for my ball joints right?

Am I missing something obvious here? Right side howling, left side is burning the inside of the tread real bad, left side has more negative camber than the right...
 
Replace the unit bearings, fairly simple fix. Keep good one as a spare. On our heeps, camber is only adjusted by the balljoints. Either adjustable or offset ones. bent "C" or axle tube can cause it as well.
 
Problem is, the pull is in the wrong direction. LH negative should cause a pull to the right. Kinda thinking you've got a toe issue.

Did you check the axle tubes for straightness?

Brakes hanging up?

You're on the right track with replacing the bearings before the alignment.

Check your tire pressures. A great difference between left and right sides can cause pulls.
 
Problem is, the pull is in the wrong direction. LH negative should cause a pull to the right. Kinda thinking you've got a toe issue.

Did you check the axle tubes for straightness?

Brakes hanging up?

You're on the right track with replacing the bearings before the alignment.

Check your tire pressures. A great difference between left and right sides can cause pulls.


I also installed rear discs from an 05 Liberty and installed new front rotors and pads shortly before the pull started. I've been checking my rotor temperature after every drive and everything is staying pretty cool.
Let's make sure I'm describing this correctly.
Viewed from the front:
/------\ = negative camber
\------/ = positive camber
|------\ = what I have
^- Inside of this tire is worn right down, and is feathering on the back of the inside edge of each lug.

My toe was set in 1/16 before the lift. I don't remember if I toed in further now. Damnit.

I remember after installing the lift, I was getting really bad wandering at all speeds. I may have toed in, in an attempt to correct, even though toe shouldn't have changed (single draglink = no toe change on lift right? I can't think of a reason for it to change).
I keep getting people telling me that my camber would have got closer to 0 or positive due to lift, but I stop listening to anyone who says that about a straight axle lift :p.

Tire pressure is deadly between all 4 at 45psi (had to air back up on the trip home).
Brakes are all about the same temp after a few km (cool enough to check by hand).

How can I check axle tube and C's for straightness and non-bendyness without an alignment shop? Shops here are completely useless. Every time I've brought a vehicle in for a diagnoses, I've been told I need a new ECM. Like, last time I brought in one of my Jeeps (7 years ago) for a brake gremlin, they told me my ECM was toast and causing the ABS to freak out. This was on a non-ABS model. *sigh*.

Any recommendation on wheel bearings? Can the front bearings be changed, or do they only come pre-installed into a new hub unit?
I'm looking at the TIMKEN 513084 for $75 each.
That said, if the bearings can be replaced in the existing hubs, should I bother, knowing that something is throwing out my camber? Can the hub bend in any direction that wouldn't cause a complete failure, that would cause camber to go negative?

While we're at it, how can I tell if I have offset ball joints installed? I know what they look like out of the axle, but once they're pressed in and possibly destroyed, I don't know of a reliable way to check the offset.
 
$75 is a decent price for Timkem hubs. Any any kind of looseness or roughness, when rotated, is cause for immediate replacement. From my personal experience, when they let go, the death wobble can be intense.

An offset ball joint will have the threaded stud offset to one side and should be observable when looking closely at it. It so equipped, it will need to be punched out and rotated to adjust the camber. Probably best to replace the loose ones.
If the ball joints have too much slop, that will allow the wheel to tilt, throwing the camber off in the direction your drawing shows.
 
All i can say say is get it on an alignment lift and go from there.
 
All i can say say is get it on an alignment lift and go from there.

This is unfortunately not really an option here in Vancouver (anywhere in Canada for that matter). Our shops are atrociously bad at doing anything right, and they charge about 10x what you pay in the US :). Those Timkin wheel hubs are $67 from the US, $460 here, if you can find them, which I couldn't. Found a shop in Ontario that'd ship them for that price, plus another $70 shipping each. :) Canada is pretty much the definition of the failure of capitalism.

I had the alignment checked a few months ago while getting my out of province inspection (moved from Alberta to BC) and they said everything was well within' spec other than my toe. They set the toe in almost a full inch and gave it back to me. The original reading according to their paperwork was 1/16 toe in, then they set it to 1".

I may just hop across to Bellingham for an alignment if I can't figure it out.
 
I suppose I should ask if the busted u-joint on the passenger side front might be making all that noise, before ordering a new set of hubs. It's definitely busted, but still moving relatively freely, but you can grab it and shake it around quite a bit. I've never had this particular u-joint fail so I dont' know the symptoms.
 
Take a look at Go Jeep's alignment page. He gives good instruction on setting the basic alignment (toe-in and caster) at home. I have always done my XJ's alignments using similar methods .
All that is needed is a tape measure, an angle indicator, a few hand tools and a flat place to park on. A helper is useful when reading toe-in.
http://jeep-xj.info/HowtoAlignment.htm

I have used a digital level, from Sears, for years and find indispensable for setting caster as well as driveshafts and u-joint angles. The water-type angle finders are fine too but are too hard for my aging eyes to accurately use.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digital-torpedo-level/p-00948295000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

When setting toe-in, I like to jack the axle up, spin each wheel and mark a accurate center line on each tire,, with a Sharpie. Drop it down, roll it back and forth a bit and then read the toe in.
This is more precise than measuring off the tread. My XJ is happy when the toe-in to be between 1/8" and zero.
 
^ real good advice. I don't know why I couldn't think of this.:doh:
 
If you have a smart phone you should be able to DL a free protractor app. Same as angle finder/gauge.
 
Well, ordered some new Timkin hubs, u-joints, and other non-alignment related stuff from RockAuto.
Hopefully one or the other solves the camber and wheel noise. Once I get them installed, I'll set my caster properly as well (out of commission for a few days as I smashed my thumb), and hopefully that does it.
Going to wait on the ball joints to see how camber is affected by new wheel hubs (if at all). Would've rather just done ball joints at the same time, but for all I know, one of those hubs is bent and may just solve it. If not, at least I know how much offset I'll need for the new ball joints.
 
New hubs installed. While I was taking off the passenger side hub, I decided to take a look at the drivers side as well on a hunch. It was in worse condition than the right but wasn't making noise. I ordered a spare hub anyhow so installed both. Quieted things down on the right and solved the camber issue on the left. Neat!
Also installed a new passenger side u-joint (was a biatch because I parked too close to the fence to remove the axle in one piece, so I had to take apart the old joint while still attached to the Jeep.

None of this solved the left pull, so I also pulled my caster back a bit closer to 90 (measured at the diff cover bolts). Turns out RC's instructions for UCA length was off by almost half an inch. Pulled them back almost as far as they go and JUST cleared the 87.5 degree mark. Steering is ... not quite like a laser, but it's certainly not pulling to the left anymore. Incidentally though, while the instructions were way off, I talked to Ryan from RC and he immediately told me to just pull back the top of the axle and he was (as always) bang on.

Now I just have to figure out why it's pulling left on hard braking. Right caliper just doesn't seem to get the same engagement. I pulled both calipers and reset them back, pumped up again with wheels bolted on this time but didn't make a difference. Bled out through a full tank of brake fluid and still no dice.
There are some grooves worn into my brake pad rail on the knuckles, but doesn't look like they're in a position to prevent movement. I DID accidentally let the reservoir run dry, but after bleeding again it doesn't feel like there's air anywhere. How would I tell if there's air in the master cylinder? What would cause a caliper to not engage as tight on one side?
 
A restricted brake hose on the right side can cause a pull. Don't over look those grooves in the pad abutments. Nasty gremlins those things are.
 
A restricted brake hose on the right side can cause a pull. Don't over look those grooves in the pad abutments. Nasty gremlins those things are.

Yea, brake balance apparently shifts now too. When I first start driving it's hard left on braking, and after an hour or so of wheeling, it's hard right. Then I let everything chill out overnight and it's hard left again. :|

I can't even come up with a theory for the shift.
I did notice however, that my fuel economy jumped up quite a bit after the following:
* Setting caster correctly
* resetting front calipers and reinstalling (they were dragging pretty tight, but I think that's cause I installed them tight)
* threw in an old bottle of fuel injector cleaner.

Went from my nominal average (with this Jeep) of 19-20mpg highway, to nearly 24mpg. On the way home though, the mileage dropped back down to about 21, so I'm strongly suspecting that resetting the calipers gave me the boost, but after some heavy use they're tight against the rotors again. Bad piston seals cause this right?
 
I'm strongly suspecting that resetting the calipers gave me the boost, but after some heavy use they're tight against the rotors again. Bad piston seals cause this right?

The way to find out would be to:
1) Drive it till the brakes drag
2) jack up front of truck
3) open bleeders while rotating front tires

If resistance decreases, its a restriction in the hydraulics, (line, combo-valve, master cyl).

If no change, its mechanical, (caliper, Pins, pad abutments).

Make sure the hoses aren't routed incorrectly or twisted causing intermittent kinking while the steering is turned, or axle is flexed.

hth
 
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