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Custom Track bar question

wolfman_023

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Michigan
I have what is probably a stupid question, but I haven't been able to find a answer doing all kids of searches. To frame the conversation, I'm in the process of converting to WJ steering/braking. My rig is a 99 XJ, 4.5 custom/bastard lift with control arm drop brackets, adjustable upper and lower LC's, and front uni-frame tie in brackets from JCR. My steering right now leaves much to be desired. It wanders at highway speed and has a slight amount of bump steer. Both seem to be a symptom of very poor steering geometry, hence the conversion.

I've been trying to source ends for a custom trackbar for my Jeep XJ. What I really wanted was two double sheer rubber joints. 1 LH and the other RH. Those are impossible to find. So instead, I'm going with the 2inch narrow LH and RH johnny joints, so I can adjust it on the vehicle. From what I gather, those joints are 1.6 inches wide at the shoulder so they should fit fine in the over the axles bracket I have from JKS. (I'll need to source a frame side double sheer bracket too.)

The question I have is would it be possible to press a rubber joint into the forged end of one of those (Size wise). Is that even something I should be concerned about? I just want to make sure the track bar is solid since this is my daily driver as well as my weekend warrior. I'm afraid of having two flex joints on that track bar. Seems it would cause it to be "loose", or have too much play, somehow.

I apologize, if this has been covered before. I've been searching forever so I'm trying any avenue I can to get some peace of mind.
 
you are thinking backwards.

having flex joints will not allow it to be loose at all. you won't get any more vibration or noise out of a Johnny joint than you will a rubber bushing.

run a full size JJ or a heim at the frame end. I'm a fan of the clayton offroad no drop bracket.
 
you are thinking backwards.

having flex joints will not allow it to be loose at all. you won't get any more vibration or noise out of a Johnny joint than you will a rubber bushing.

run a full size JJ or a heim at the frame end. I'm a fan of the clayton offroad no drop bracket.

He's right I just redid my trace bar but went heims. I was using the original Energy suspension bushing & trace bar for Ford 1/2 tons. The've been on since 1992 and worn as hell. The trac bar does rotate with short arms and one fixed mount but I know you would run out of angle on 1 joint let alone 2 joints! As far as noise or chatter I do not hear or see any difference than with bushings, what I do feel is more response from the steering and no slop! My van is a 5 link all heim joints. I was told it would be noisy and chattery! It's going on 7 years and 50k miles + now and they are still fine
 
I think I see what you're saying, the flex allows the axle to rotate as it articulates, but not move laterally (side to side) as opposed to rubber bushings right?

I was afraid that "rotation" would make the steering less precise, but what you guys say makes sense. The trackbar is supposed to keep the axle centered, not keep it from pitching back or forward. Thats the control arms' job. You're right, I was thinking about it wrong.

I don't think I'll be able to go full size JJ's. The bracket I have is only 1.7" wide. It wouldn't take a full size (same as a control arm JJ.) Heims aren't going to work either. I don't think they are street legal in Michigan. Either way, though, unless someone has a really negative opinion of those narrow JJ's, those should do the trick. Thanks fellas! I should have just come here first.
 
Thanks for the bracket suggestion too. I'll check it out. So far, I haven't found a bracket to do exactly what I want, but that's typical. If I had the resources, I just make one, but alas, wishing doesn't make it so.
 
I used the smaller Johnny joints when I built my track bar. Not sure on the measurement of the joints off the top of my head but they fit my frame side RE double sheer track bar mount perfectly but I had to widen my JKS axle bracket. 1.6" sounds right though.
 
I think I see what you're saying, the flex allows the axle to rotate as it articulates, but not move laterally (side to side) as opposed to rubber bushings right?

I was afraid that "rotation" would make the steering less precise, but what you guys say makes sense. The trackbar is supposed to keep the axle centered, not keep it from pitching back or forward. Thats the control arms' job. You're right, I was thinking about it wrong.

I don't think I'll be able to go full size JJ's. The bracket I have is only 1.7" wide. It wouldn't take a full size (same as a control arm JJ.) Heims aren't going to work either. I don't think they are street legal in Michigan. Either way, though, unless someone has a really negative opinion of those narrow JJ's, those should do the trick. Thanks fellas! I should have just come here first.
another way to look at it... with a strait link, you are going to get some rotation on the bar. its inevitable. but the length is fixed, its not like its going to be adjusting itself. the eye to eye measurement will not change, youll get the feel you want out of it.

nothing wrong with heims on the street it Mi. just as acceptable as an aftermarket JJ.
 
I just converted my track bar to 7/8" heims on both ends. The JKS axle bracket has a width of 1.625" I believe and the RE double shear bracket is 2". I was able to use off the shelf misalignment spacers in the RE bracket, but I had to grind down spacers on the JKS side to fit correctly. Kind of a pain to install, but it fits perfectly and there is zero slop now.

I'm sure the johnny joints would be fine, but I kept screwing with RE joints and rubber bushings and I wanted to completely eliminate play in the TB. You shouldn't really see any additional NVH because of solid ends on the TB, all the damping will be done by the bushings on your control arms. You'll just get much better feeling steering.
 
Rubber bushing on both ends would be an iron rock Offroad track bar, mine has given me zero problems.

But they don't adjust on the fly... I've literally Adjusted mine once since I bought it, why do you want in the fly adjustment like the draglink? Wouldn't that create bad news if the locking nuts backed off and threaded it self one direction or the other?
http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merc...=IROR&Product_Code=IR-STBCK&Category_Code=XSP
 
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The track bar only moves in one plane so you don't need flexibility except in one direction. It would be cheaper to do 2 rubber bushings in it but Heims are just so cool looking :D
 
"But they don't adjust on the fly... I've literally Adjusted mine once since I bought it, why do you want in the fly adjustment like the draglink? Wouldn't that create bad news if the locking nuts backed off and threaded it self one direction or the other?"

Good point MaxxXJ . I'm pretty sure with Red loctite and proper torque I should be ok. I' was looking at the adjust on the fly option for two reasons. 1) it will make fine tuning a little easier. I work on my jeep by myself so anything I can do to make things easier is a plus. 2) I don't have the ability to fabricate. A friend will weld in some bungs for me at work, but he won't weld on a hoop for a fixed end. This bar is going to be a custom length due to the WJ conversion. Best guess will be around 30-31 inches in length. I won't be able to measure that until I get the brackets installed.

Good to know about the Heims, VAhasnoWAVES, I think I still prefer JJ's for the rebuildable nature and greasability.

i took a measurement of my JKS bracket at it is just under a hair under 1 5/8". That should be 1.6 within an acceptable tolerance. I suppose I ought to get the frame side bracket first so I can make sure I get the right frame end. Another save by the good folks at NAXJA!
 
The track bar only moves in one plane so you don't need flexibility except in one direction. It would be cheaper to do 2 rubber bushings in it but Heims are just so cool looking :D


that is not true.

the panhard moves in 2 planes.

most of the movement is vertically, however some horizontal movement happens. depending on the rest of your suspension geometry, the axle does move front to back as it articulates.

rubbber bushings have deflection, which allows for that movement, but also allows for slop in the system.

heims or JJs allow for both planes of movement without any slop. I prefer Heims to JJs for a panhard because they are smaller and easier to package. however there is nothing wrong with JJs.


FWIW I have seen a number of IRO bushings killed by rigs with 33"+ tires, both with and without hydro assist. almost always at the frame end, but I have seen axle side bushings go too.
 
that is not true.

the panhard moves in 2 planes.

most of the movement is vertically, however some horizontal movement happens. depending on the rest of your suspension geometry, the axle does move front to back as it articulates.

rubbber bushings have deflection, which allows for that movement, but also allows for slop in the system.

heims or JJs allow for both planes of movement without any slop. I prefer Heims to JJs for a panhard because they are smaller and easier to package. however there is nothing wrong with JJs.


FWIW I have seen a number of IRO bushings killed by rigs with 33"+ tires, both with and without hydro assist. almost always at the frame end, but I have seen axle side bushings go too.
Right you are, it would have been far more accurate for me to say that there is very little movement longitudinally therefore there is no need for alot of articulation in the joints.
 
Right you are, it would have been far more accurate for me to say that there is very little movement longitudinally therefore there is no need for alot of articulation in the joints.

Yea, most of the time a Heim with safety washers has more than enough, but most brackets are at least 2" wide so high misalignment spacers get used.
 
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