Extreme Pizza Cutter Tires (7.00 x 15)?

Hi All,

I live in Fairbanks and drive on ice for half the year. I've got two XJ's and they're both awful on the ice, especially with a light dusting of snow. I've got year-old Toyo Observes in 225/75/15 on one (snow tires), and BFG AT's (31x10.5) on the other. Honestly, I think the best ice performance I found was the Michelin X-Radials (215/75/15's) that I had on the one rig when I moved back up here. Now, I know I could probably just buy a standard size studded tire, but I'm thinking of going a radical old school step further: pizza cutters. I know in XJ land, pizza cutter usually means 32 x 9.50. I'm thinking much skinnier but not quite as tall. Like L78's, or, even more extreme, 7.00 x 15's. Basically I want to be under 225mm wide and still close to 30" diameter. These are the only (non-bias-ply) tires that seem to fit the bill:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=Y742S
Looks like they're popular among the VW set. If I figured everything correctly they'd be the equivalent of a 198/92/15 if such a thing existed. I'm wondering:
1) whether anyone has tried this sort of setup and how well it performed on ice/packed snow.
2) would those tires fit OK on a stock 15x7 rim? Tire rack says the rim width range is 5.0" to 6.5". I think it should work, but I want the tires to look unstretched and normal. OK, not normal I know, but normal for pizza cutter tires...

Thanks!

I think I would quiz the locals and find out what tires and sizes work well for them on their Jeeps, in winter conditions. It's tough to beat studded tires on ice. Two sets of tires would be ideal.

Actually, I am the locals. I was just gone for a while. VW Rabbit with (obviously small) studded tires worked great back in the day. Didn't have the studless growing up, so it was a new thing to try when I came back up. I'm going back to studs either way, but I'm convinced that a smaller contact patch is also the way to go. But, I lifted one of my Jeeps, so I can't really go back to the ordinary 215/75/15's. I'm thinking the 7.00 x 15's should be slightly less wide (i.e. around 200 mm), but close to 30" in diameter. I haven't heard back yet from Yokahama about whether they're pinned for studs or not. Some of the military alternatives (Super Traxions) appear to be pinned for studs, but they're bias ply tires, which get very square at -40. Few people run XJ's up here, though I think there's a lot down in Anchorage. Ford, Toyota, and Dodge pickups are pretty much the norm, and they're heavy enough not to need to go pizza cutter I think. Regular sizes in studded would probably keep me on the road fine, I just want to try something different on the theory that it will maximize traction, look a little different, and enable me to run in 2x4 except in the absolute worst conditions.

Take a look at what sizes are available in the Goodyear DuraTracs. My father has an FJ80 in Colorado year-round, and had always run traditional studded tires until he visited me in NC (while snowing nonetheless) and got to play around with my un-studded DuraTracs in various snow conditions. Needless to say, he was floored.

He ended up buying a set of 265/75R16's for his FJ, and after about a year had them studded. Now he runs them year-round, and got rid of his full set of summer tires (BFG A/Ts) as a result. I'm sure AK has no issues with people running studs in the summer.

Regardless, I never even see snow anymore (back in south Texas again), and I'm still sold on DuraTracs for life.

*EDIT* The DuraTracs will not be a good pizza cutter option unfortunately. Their 15" sizes are extremely limited in number, and well within traditional size ranges. Fantastic snow tire, though (and the most terrifyingly grippy wet-weather offroad tire I've ever used).

have you considered getting your current tires siped (not the same thing as grooved)? it did wonders for mine.

anthrax323 said:

He ended up buying a set of 265/75R16's for his FJ, and after about a year had them studded. Now he runs them year-round, and got rid of his full set of summer tires (BFG A/Ts) as a result. I'm sure AK has no issues with people running studs in the summer.

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Actually we can't run studs in the summer either. I've got lots of rims, though, so I can keep a dedicated set of studded tires on rims. I guess I would have more options with a 16" rim, as the 16" tires (Duratracs apparently included) often have an 85 ratio available, where the 15's don't. That'd be a bit of an investment, though, to change over. I'm all for siping, but the Toyo's are pretty well siped out of the box. I think studs are the way to go for the ice conditions. I asked Yokohama whether they're pinned for studs and they said "It has the capacity to be studded. [but] Yokohama Tire does not recommend studding this tire as we are unable to guarantee the service process involved..." Frankly I'm still not sure whether they answered my question. Really, ANY tire has the "capacity" to be studded with plenty of time, a Makita drill, lots of patience, and maybe gobs of sealant. The question is really whether it was manufactured in a way that allows for studs to be easily installed with a normal stud gun.

I looked at the tire spec. They indicated they would be good up to a 6.5" rim; I would think they would go to 7", but they would look funny.

I didn't see where you noted what year you have, but early rims were 6". Also the 5X4.5" is shared with Ford, so there are more rim choices.

Something I have found with getting around in the winter is to make sure you have a good contact patch. Not sure what you are running presently for pressure, but on my work truck ( a 2wd Colorado PU ), dropping from 35psi to 26 PSI made all the difference in the world. I thought it was a different truck.

Yet another idea with merit are cables. Cables go on faster than Chains, and IIRC, are rated for running at abit higher speeds. The Police around here have them for when things get bad.

I was wondering whether 1/2" over spec would really make that much of a difference, especially on such a tall tire. My Jeeps are 88' and 93'. My theory right now is that I don't have enough ground pressure for the ice, so airing them down would increase the contact patch, really the reverse of what I'm trying to accomplish here by going pizza cutter. The tires I have are more or less fine on snow, especially deeper stuff, it's just the ice performance that really blows.

Yup, it's counter intuitive that's for certain.

The idea is that decreasing the contact patch by running a thinner tire will increase the PSI at the tire/ice layer and pressure melt the ice faster and make sure you are floating on a thin layer of water.

Spreading out the pressure at the layer by increasing your contact patch should decrease the PSI at the tire/ice layer and decrease the amount of float.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it

I don't think there's time for any melting to occur during normal driving at even say, 30 mph. At 44 feet per second, with a 30 inch tire with a 94 inch circumference, even if we say the contact patch is really large, say 9.4 inches long, that's (44 feet x 12 inches = 528 inches per second. 528/9.4=56.17 "contact patches per second." I don't think much melting is going to occur in .017 seconds. OTOH, any water that's already on the ice will take longer to "squish out" of a larger contact patch, meaning you'd be driving atop water atop ice, especially at higher speeds. I concede that it's hard for me to imagine much more "squishing out" occurring in .017 seconds either, but I think it'd still happen quicker than any melting process. That's my theory, but I remain open minded ;-)

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered the 7.00 R 15's (Yokohama Y742S's). They're not as funny looking as I thought they'd be. Once we get some real ice and snow I'll post about my thoughts on performance. So far so good, though. Here's what they look like on my 88' with a 3" Budget Boost lift

I ran a set of Firestone Blizzak's(studded) on my 2wd Ranger for years and it would go wherever I pointed it in the snow ice. I ONLY ran them while it was snowing and would switch them out with everyday radials in good weather.

Have always heard of skinnier tires being better in snow. The wider contact patch of big tires floats more while the skinny tire will dig down to the good stuff

831_xj said:

Have always heard of skinnier tires being better in snow. The wider contact patch of big tires floats more while the skinny tire will dig down to the good stuff

Click to expand...

:doh:

Just a slight difference between driving off road over 10 feet of snow, and driving on a plowed, icy road. On a steep, icy hill, I will take the studded pizza cutters...

Agreed. If you never have to drive in snow over 6" deep, skinnys will do just fine. The OP lives in Alaska, but it looks like Fairbanks only averages 65" of snow per year.

When you say pinned for studs, do you mean they have pins in them that you screw studs onto, or is it the standard molded in holes for pushing studs into setup?

Jeep looks a little odd with such narrow tires, but if it works, it works!

I meant the molded in holes. They didn't have the holes, but I ordered them anyway and had them siped. Still no snow at most elevations here, though, so I can't say yet whether they work.

Your tire ideas should work well for you...I lived in Fairbanks AK for nearly 10 years. I had 33x10.5 BFG MTs on my Scrambler....Had the tires center lugs sipped and it was a big improvement. Even better was having every other outer lug drilled and studded w/ two studs. Only cut the center lugs to avoid excessive chunking of the outer lugs. These tires lasted a lot longer than I anticipated, and I got nearly 47,000 miles out of them. And then I gave them to a good friend who needed cheap winter rollers in Delta Junction. He had them on his Jeep for another two winter seasons IIRC....I wandered all over the Dalton HWY during the winter months and made weekly trips between Fairbanks/Delta Junction and Fairbanks/Healy. Just don't expect any flotation in the deeper stuff. Although, as it gets colder this winter, you will be impressed w/ just how deep of snow you will be able to push through as long as your tires can get traction on something solid. Man do I wish I was back in Fairbanks! I guess maybe someday...I'll get back up there.

I ran some BFG 33x10.5-15's a long time ago(got them cheap). They are tall and skinny and still available. On a 7" rim they would really stand tall.

Tire Rack; http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?width=33X&ratio=10.5&diameter=15