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Lockers in the sand...Ridiculously unstable

mako my day

mako my day

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Aliso Viejo
Over the weekend I took my jeep out to the desert for its first run. Sand with some rocks.
Yukon Grizzly in the front, 4:56, Trac limited slip in the rear.

When in 4wd, and driving past 30 mph up to 50 in the sand, she just cant stay straight. The front pulls left or right and fights me, and I constantly needed to fight it. No noise from the locker. I don't really even know if its doing anything.

In 2wd, no problem and it tracks just fine.

Normal for front locked rigs to hunt for a straight line in the sand/dirt? It would reeeeeealy suck if this is normal. ( I like to drive fast out there )
 
I dont remember my Aussie not walking my front to much going fast but it does make a difference and can cause it to wonder. I have an arb now and just unlock it if not needed.


Is it more like it wont track straight or is it all over the place
 
mako my day said:
Nope, I never checked em.
Click to expand...

first place I would start then, it's a good suggestion.

uneven air pressure used to do really weird things with my detroit in a slippery surface like snow.
It makes it so your tires aren't the same diameter, which generally pisses off a mechanical style locker. It will make one side lock and unlock, so the front end would pull on just one side every once in a while .
 
having a fully locked front and wanting to go fast would need a very well set up steering and tracking geometry. meaning your caster, camber, total alignment, equal tire size, weight, and pressure, all need to be perfect. especially important in sand. even vehicle weight distribution needs to be good. too heavy on one side and you are going to get more traction on that side. locking the rear and having the limited slip up front would work better for high speed sand applications.
 
i have a grizzly in the front and sometimes it doesnt always unlock when you think it should. not sure why, i was thinking to ask Robert about it when i see him this weekend.
 
I'm not locked in the front but running 2 different sized 31's on back (locked rear) made my jeep pull everywhere On the street, everytime I got on the throttle it would jerk to one side, I swapped the tires to the front and same situation... Tire size and air pressure has a lot to do with how bad/good it drives.
 
mako my day said:
I assumed it locked up under drive pressure? When I would let off, it would track straight.
Click to expand...

yes.

When it's getting power through the pinion it's locked up, but what that means is that one side cannot spin slower than the other. However, one side can spin faster than the other. So what you get is the larger diameter tire pushing you one way, then when the difference is too great and the locker unlocks, the power is quickly transferred to the other side, then when the locker locks back up you're back to the larger diameter tire pushing.

I've experienced it with a full detroit locker in the snow with uneven tire pressures. It can be unsettling, especially in an light MJ rearend.
 
How are you able to go up to 50 in 4x4?
That is an auto locker correct? Unless you have an np242 I dont suggest goin that fast in 4. Also, if it is a 242, I dont suggest using an auto locker, especially in the front.
 
bluejeepkid said:
How are you able to go up to 50 in 4x4?
That is an auto locker correct? Unless you have an np242 I dont suggest goin that fast in 4. Also, if it is a 242, I dont suggest using an auto locker, especially in the front.
Click to expand...
what's wrong with going 50 in the sand? i can see pavement, but there should be no issues in the sand.
 
souske said:
at about 45 the chain begins to slap the top of the case, and chew it up
Click to expand...

I've never had that problem, I'd say if that happens then your chain is stretched.

the owners manual says that the 231/242 is good to any road legal speed in 4hi.

It says to limit 4 low to 25 MPH or less, but cautions that's because of engine RPMs.

I have never had any damage done to a 231 or 242 from running it at 55 MPH on the highway, and I've never seen anything from new process that states there are speed limits on the design.

What about all of the auto 4wd cases that automatically shift? They are the same basic design as our cases, just larger. They don't seem to have any chain slapping problems.
 
That is what I was told when I had to drive an hour home in FWD.
I have also seen a couple posts with pics of the case eroded from chain slap.

The reality is, if you are doing 45+ in the sand, you likely dont need 4wd
 
souske said:
The reality is, if you are doing 45+ in the sand, you likely dont need 4wd
Click to expand...

that may be ture, I don't wheel sand, but there is no technical limitation in the case. The people with chain slap need new chains.
 
souske said:
That is what I was told when I had to drive an hour home in FWD.
I have also seen a couple posts with pics of the case eroded from chain slap.

The reality is, if you are doing 45+ in the sand, you likely dont need 4wd
Click to expand...
I drove my 94 XJ without a rear d/s over 300 miles on the expressway in 4wd and another couple of hundred miles commuting in Chicago suburban traffic before I got the rear d/s issues sorted out. Aside from not taking corners under power, no issues.

Nate's right, if you've got chain-case contact, your chain is already stretched out.
 
I've driven 40-45 in the sand in 4wd many times, but I leave the front unlocked (ARB). That's just another reason I wouldn't run an autolocker in the front.

I've driven highway speeds for weeks with no rear DS in 4wd hi with a 231. Haven't had an issue so far.
 
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