Witnessed something scary today at the local gear shop

Had to take my cryco 8.25 back to Babbitt bearing gear here in columbus ohio(30 yrs in the business) because they forgot to tighten the pinion nut/fully crush the sleeve!!!

I had them regear my axles to 456 and after I got them home I was looking things over and noticed the pinion yoke had tons of play so when I took it back up to the owner today he said huh I can't believe bob missed that....then he said no problem Ill take care of it and came back with AN IMPACT GUN:scared:
He proceeded to hammer on it with the impact till the play is gone in the yoke and said there ya go....wow....

now this is my question:shouldnt he have used an inch pound torque wrench to measure the rotational force of the pinion after the crush sleeve crushed and don't impact guns tend to be hard on bearings????

My other question is about the Dana 30 they set up for me:I'm no expert but I've absorbed a lot of info about gear setup and feel I can do it if I had the space and proper tools that being said the carrier is almost impossible to move by hand???
I know bearing preload is good but it seems weird to me....I asked the owner about that too and he said its ok....I'm worried.....I haven't got the axles back under the jeep yet so idk if they are gonna howl like a banshee or what...of course he said they can't offer a warranty on axle that are gonna be put in a 4x4 because "you could take it out into a mud hole and strip the gears out"

When you say you can't move the carrier in the 30, do you mean you can't turn the pinion shaft easily by hand ?

Those are both crush sleeve pinions and need to be set up as such, not just hammered down unless they had replaced the crush sleeve with a shim pack and set up the pre-load accordingly

Sounds like you need to at the very least check the pattern, and at the worst, get your money back from them and take your stuff somewhere else.

usually when I set up pre-load in an axle with a crush sleeve I have a big wrench that has a planetary gear set that the 1 inch ratchet adapts to its a big $$$in ratchet...and after the pinion starts to get snug you check preload after ever turn,3/4/,1/2,1/4 turn so its within spec usually 15 in lbs or within that realm....NEVER use an impact for that...

same question dktool asked where are you trying to turn it from the carrier or the pinion yoke?

x2 on kastein grab some paint/grease/better yet pattern check (yellow) paint and put it on 4 teeth on the ring gear and rotate the pinion if you can by hand then let us know what the pattern looks like

I can easily spin the 8.25 carrier by grabbing the ring gear....on the 30 I can only get it to turn using the pinion and it is fairly difficult to turn,I cannot grab the ring gear and get the carrier to turn..

I did tell him to lemme see a pattern after he gunned down the pinion nut and he ran a pattern in front of me...nice pattern but the fact that he didn't seem worried about pinion bearing preload worries me...I mean I know he has 30yrs in the business but can you really be that good to know when proper pinion bearing preload is attained without using an inch lb wrench????

...I mean I know he has 30yrs in the business but can you really be that good to know when proper pinion bearing preload is attained without using an inch lb wrench????

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Without an inch lb. torque wrench ?, yes.
With a impact gun ?, NO !

When you checked your bill did you notice if they replaced the pinion bearings/races? They may have found them in good shape and left them in. If so, then they may also have reused the crush sleeve. They should have used a new crush sleeve and then checked the rotational force with an inch pound torque wrench, as you stated.

However, when I rebuilt my D35C I was unable to crush a new sleeve due to the fact that I couldn't get enough leverage. I reused the old crush sleeve and tightened the new pinion nut till it was tight, checking the rotational force with my in/lb. torque wrench as I went until I got about 20 in/lbs. My pattern was still good and my backlash only changed a couple of thousands of an inch and was still within specs.

You might want to ask them about what I said. And, I think that the D30's don't have crush sleeves, they use shims to set the preload. But, again if they replaced the pinion gear/bearings/races with new then the depth of the pinion gear will probably have changed enough to require a change in the thickness of the shims.

The bottom line from where I see it is if the contact patterns, rotational force and backlash are all good I wouldn't worry about it. Of course the right way to do it is since you've got the whole assembly torn apart is to replace all of the bearing/races (carrier side bearings/pinion/wheel/seals and maybe even the center pin), then drive it for 500 miles or so and change the gear oil in both axles.

You didn't include your vehicle info and mileage, that always helps.

I think that the D30's don't have crush sleeves, they use shims to set the preload.

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You are correct, I had a early morning brain fart when I stated the 30 was also a crush sleeve set up...............sorry

low pinion d30s are crush sleeve, high pinion aren't.

dktool said:

You are correct, I had a early morning brain fart when I stated the 30 was also a crush sleeve set up...............sorry

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Yea I meant to point that out.
I have learned a valuable lesson never let anyone else work on my jeep...for the last eleven years I've built this jeep from the ground up myself without anyone else touching it...I knew I should've got a press and a few other tools and did these gears myself....now my setup is compromised:repair:

Are there no more skilled craftsmen left???
I took some leaf bushings to the local machine shop last week...three fit good,the fourth is waaaay undersized....how people keep jobs is beyond me

Are there no more skilled craftsmen left???

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We are becoming extinct, all the young-ens are skilled at walking and staring into a cell phone at the same time.
If I was to try that I'd fall down or get hit by a car, or both.

Just a different skill set I guess.

Speak for yourself, I can do that AND build/fix stuff :moon:

What I would do on those diffs -
- remove carrier
- measure pinion preload yourself. If it's within spec, put the carrier back in, if it isn't, bring the diff back to the guy and tell him it's not right and he needs to make it right or give you your money back... and buy you a new setup kit, if you brought that to him.
- check pattern with gear marking compound, check carrier bearing preload. If everything's in spec, run with it.

Zapping the pinion nut on with an impact is just plain sloppy. Doing that without re-checking the pinion preload (without the carrier in as you are supposed to) is outright wrong.

The only time I'll do this kind of sloppy work is on a junkyard axle with stock gearing as a trail fix - for instance I've done it on both my axles to replace pinion yokes, but I have around $100 into them combined, neither is particularly valuable (front housing's bent, rear is bashed to crap), and they have 3.55 gears. If I blow one up, it means $130 at the junkyard and a few hours of repairs before it's back the way it was.

....on the 30 I can only get it to turn using the pinion and it is fairly difficult to turn,I cannot grab the ring gear and get the carrier to turn..

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Sounds like way too much carrier bearing pre-load.
Maybe "Bob" only needed to shift the carrier a little to one side to get a decent pattern and got away with putting shims under the cup instead of R&R ing the cones and doing it right.

If I couldn't turn it at the ring gear, I would start over. But that's just me.

kastein said:

low pinion d30s are crush sleeve, high pinion aren't.

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Thanks for the clarification, am I correct that the low pinion D30's are in the 2000 and 2001 years, or do any of the early XJ's have them.

I know the 00/01 low pinions are crush sleeve... I don't know if the others are. IIRC, the TJ ones are, because they're the same axle as the 00/01.

Rear diff on my '84 was wiped out by similar sloppy shop work. If they aren't checking the rotational torque the diff may not last long. Good luck.

dktool said:

You are correct, I had a early morning brain fart when I stated the 30 was also a crush sleeve set up...............sorry

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LP D30 does have a crush sleeve. The 8.25's crush sleeve can be substituted for a spacer and shims.

But Given what you have said(OP) I wouldn't trust their work.

I am not trying to knock the OP but why not say something at the time while in the shop? I mean if you think grabbing an impact gun is a bad idea, why not call them out on it right then and there before he uses the impact gun? Then you could have decided to leave the shop, ask for it to be done right or at least have his reasoning of why he used it to post here. I know it can be one of those things you don't think about or can't react fast enough but the way you seemed shocked about seeing the impact, I would have just stepped up and said something.

I had a gear guy tell me no warranty once..
I went else where

NW-ZJ-SCOTT said:

I had a gear guy tell me no warranty once..
I went else where

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Just what I was about to post.

This "no warranty cause you might take it in the mud and strip the gears out" BS would be the last conversation I would have with a "gear installer".