Rear brakes won't self adjust, Chry. 8.25

I installed all new brake hardware on my 8.25 about a year ago. I did one side at a time and it looks like I installed it all correctly but they won't self adjust. I can turn the adjuster by hand and the finger that should turn it looks like it would adjust it but it's just not working.

Can someone see something wrong? I don't know if they were installed correctly before as this was the first brake job since buying the Jeep.

Here's 3 pics of the passenger side:




And three of the driver side:

As far as I can tell, it's basically a design flaw. Ever so often, I jack up a wheel, pop that little rubber plug, and adjust them myself with a screwdriver.

How are you trying to adjust them?

Take apart the star-wheel assembly, clean it and apply anti-seize paste. That may or may not help. The self-adjusting system is not very effective and it is not unusual for to not work well or not work at all. If you change out the brake hardware, use good quality hardware kits, the cheaper the hardware kits are the first ones to stop working.

Flyfisher said:

How are you trying to adjust them?

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In theory they are supposed to adjust themselves. For the past year I have been adjusting them by hand.

How are they designed to self adjust? With the parking brake or when backing and braking?

what I see in these pictures is a goofy pile of crap that should be replaced with a set of ZJ disc brakes.

That being said I used to adjust mine by hand... never trusted the self adjusters.

kastein said:

what I see in these pictures is a goofy pile of crap that should be replaced with a set of ZJ disc brakes.

That being said I used to adjust mine by hand... never trusted the self adjusters.

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I agree 100%. Unfortunately I need other upgrades before that. Think I'm going to do an 8.8 swap once my finances agree.

Looks like I'm adjusting by hand till then.

Thanks for the responses.

CASEY-R said:

In theory they are supposed to adjust themselves. For the past year I have been adjusting them by hand.

How are they designed to self adjust? With the parking brake or when backing and braking?

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When you back up and cycle the brakes, the adjuster cable gets pulled as the shoes XXXX inside of the drum and that moves the adjuster lever which moves adjuster screw assembly. Pumping the brakes will adjust faster. In one of your photos, the adjuster actuator (lever, parking brake) appears to be out of place. The levers

But, and it is a big but, the brakes need to be very close to correct to begin with. If everything is working correctly, a person with good hearing (as opposed to what I call hearing...) can hear the adjusters working.

The advice on the antisieze is pretty good. I do not use it, but some have with great success. What I do at the time of doing a brake job is to very thoroughly clean the threads of the adjuster. There can be no, as in zero, resistance in the device. I will chemically and mechanically clean the threads. The fitment of the threaded parts to each other is very sloppy. By design. If there is resistance, the adjusters will not work. They will bind. I then apply a very light spray lube.

These adjusters have been in use for multiple decades and will work just fine if they are maintained. Problem is that the skill set required has, for the most part, disappeared from the Planet. Just about everyone understands disk brakes, old school may stops, not so much.

Everything looks correct but dirty. Take it apart and clean it well. You have to adjust them by hand first and then the adjuster only works in reverse. I am not sure about the exact sequence, whether you need to come to a complete stop then put it in drive, etc. I'm sure there is a certain method that they work best with.

Pretty much what Kastein and o-gauge said, especially on the goofy mess part.

They never worked on my Jeep either. That's one of the reasons I replaced them with ZJ disc brakes.

Thanks for the help. Maybe i'll try pumping the brakes a few times when reversing and see if that works.

All the parts were brand new when I did the brakes and would never self adjust. I did adjust them by hand when they were first installed.

I'll clean em up and apply some anti seize to the threads of the adjusters in the near future.

The way I tried to get the adjusters to work was pumping the brakes and cycling the parking brake. They didn't work so what I did was built up speed in reverse and slammed the brake pedal. Then I did it again with the parking brake. Now it marginally holds better on uphill.

pretty sure you are supposed to go reverse, brake, forward, brake, junkyard, disc swap

H8PVMT said:

pretty sure you are supposed to go reverse, brake, forward, brake, junkyard, disc swap

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:thumbup:

Now accepting donations for a rear disk swap:wave1:

The FSM is fairly specific in stating that for the adjusters to work, you must go back and forth, and brake to a complete stop each time. I think it's that last point where the shoes rotate a little that pulls the cable.

Of course this is assuming that you have said the proper incantations, the moon is in the seventh house, and your Jeep is pointed toward Toledo. Sacrificing a goat might help too. Otherwise, get out the screwdriver and adjust the brakes with that.

What's with the the two springs on the bottom, above the star wheel? None of our four were set up like that. Maybe ours are missing the extra springs? That being said, any vehicle I've ever had with rear drums (or all drums) needed frequent adjustments. It's just the nature on the beast. Occasionally the adjusters work. One works on my '96. The other doesn't click, but it will adjust up. As others have said, make sure the star wheel turns freely. The ratchet arm in the picture of the left brake is clearly lower than the one on the right. Possibly a worn part. In the past few years, the quality of brake parts has gone to crap, so maybe try NAPA parts?

Joking aside I did the reverse, forward trick, later on brought it to a buddies house that was q mechanic, he jacked up the back, spun the wheels and they were fine, might have tweaked them a bit

More worried about you saying you've adjusted them multiple times, should be one and done

heyhar said:

What's with the the two springs on the bottom, above the star wheel? None of our four were set up like that. Maybe ours are missing the extra springs? That being said, any vehicle I've ever had with rear drums (or all drums) needed frequent adjustments. It's just the nature on the beast. Occasionally the adjusters work. One works on my '96. The other doesn't click, but it will adjust up. As others have said, make sure the star wheel turns freely. The ratchet arm in the picture of the left brake is clearly lower than the one on the right. Possibly a worn part. In the past few years, the quality of brake parts has gone to crap, so maybe try NAPA parts?

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There's actually only one spring between the shoes. The other spring you see is on the handbrake cable.

Note from DJ
Look over this Post by ehall for some tips
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1006765
Now after looking at your series of pic, I noticed in both of you first pic of each side showing the top post with the adjuster cable and the two springs hooked over it that one spring in each pic seems to be riding high on the post. The rear spring on the passenger side & the front spring on the driver’s side.

Also in both pics the adjuster cable doesn’t appear to be centered on the post. I can’t remember if there is a special enlarged lip on the posts for the adjuster cable to be placed on before installing the two springs or not. But if there is such a lip for the adjuster cable ring connector to be placed on first so it is properly centered on the post and it is not properly in place this would explain why the springs are not dropped down all the way into the grove. This will also cause the adjuster cable to have a slight amount of slack in it that it was not designed to have, which will contribute to them dot working as designed.

You might pull the springs off on side and have a look see.

Keep us posted as to your progress.

Matthew Currie said:

The FSM is fairly specific in stating that for the adjusters to work, you must go back and forth, and brake to a complete stop each time. I think it's that last point where the shoes rotate a little that pulls the cable.

Of course this is assuming that you have said the proper incantations, the moon is in the seventh house, and your Jeep is pointed toward Toledo. Sacrificing a goat might help too. Otherwise, get out the screwdriver and adjust the brakes with that.

Click to expand...

Everytime the brakes are used the entire assembly "rocks" inside of the drum. The leading shoe's primary function is to push the trailing shoe into the drum. That is why the shoes are different size. The trailing soe does most of the work.

The reason for moving the Heep back and forth is to force the assembly to rock back and forth. Once the asembly moves due to the Heep being reversed, it will more or less stay there until the brakes are hit while moving forward.

The adjuster takes advantage of the motion to operate the adjusting lever which, in turn, operates the adjuster.

Are Disks bettter? Can be. Usually are. Are drums the Devil"s Spawn? No. Not really. Do they take more maintenance? Yes. Absolutely. Speaking of which, you really need to use the proper tool. The tool is inexpensive and will reduce the likelyhood of damaging the teeth on the adjuster. If the teeth get chewed up, you are done until new parts are installed.

Drum Brake Maintenance. Yet another soon to be lost art...