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cooling fan always on

bobyep

NAXJA Forum User
Location
ne ohio
So my aux cooling fan is running any time the ignition is on. This includes at cold start up so its not from the engine temp and my ac is removed and i made sure my heater is not in defrost. It turns on and off with the ignition. I have tried putting a jumper wire in the temp switch and nothing changed. Is this a comon sign that the computer is essed up?

almost forgot this is a 96 xj 4.0l with manual transmision
 
already tested the relay. if the ignition is on the relay turns on. I had someone turn the ignition on and off and i could feel the relay click on and off. I put the voltmeter in the sockets that control the relay and it is getting power when the ignition is on.
 
no check engine light that i noticed but i will check for codes next time i get a chance. Didn't get a chance before i had to leave to find out how to check the coolant temp sensor. Figured it was a simple on or off kinda switch switch so i tried it unplugged and with a jumper wire in the plug and neither of those seemed to make a difference. But if its not just on or off that could be it. I need to find a fsm to figure out what wire it is at the computer so i can trace it to make sure it didn't rub through and ground out somewhere.
 
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here...I'm a RENIX guy.

AFAIK if you disconnect your coolant sensor at the t-stat housing, your fan will run all the time.

So, the circuit between the sensor and the relay and the ECU is open somewhere just as if you disconnected the sensor. Check for continuity along that circuit.

http://www.ladyada.net/learn/multimeter/
 
The CTS may be bad, tellling the PCM the engine is at 220 F all the time, or the PCM may think the AC is on all the time, or the wiring has a short (or open as mentioned by ParadiseXJ) somewhere.
 
no check engine light that i noticed but i will check for codes next time i get a chance. Didn't get a chance before i had to leave to find out how to check the coolant temp sensor. Figured it was a simple on or off kinda switch switch so i tried it unplugged and with a jumper wire in the plug and neither of those seemed to make a difference. But if its not just on or off that could be it. I need to find a fsm to figure out what wire it is at the computer so i can trace it to make sure it didn't rub through and ground out somewhere.

Your CTS (on the thermostat housing) is probably okay. As well as providing a voltage input to the PCM to control the cooling fan relay, it also provides this voltage to the PCM for it to control injector pulse width and ignition timing. If you haven't had engine performance problems you can be assued the CTS is working properly. The CTS is a variable resister that is inversely proportional to temperature, i.e., when the coolant temperature is high the resistance is low and when the coolant temperature is low the resistance is high. Disconnecting the ECT harness connector would be like introducing an infinate (high) resistance and the PCM would see zero volts, shorting (jumpering) the connector pins would introduce a very low resistance and the PCM would see a high voltage input = High Coolant Temp.

The PCM provides a ground to the Fan Relay control coil when it determines the coolant temp is too high or A/C is requested. If you removed the A/C low pressure switch, the PCM won't receive the A/C request signal. The ECT is probaly okay.

If the Fan Relay energizes any time the ignition switch is in the RUN position (you feel it click), there's probably a short to ground in the wire that controls the relay coil from the Fan Relay socket to the PCM....or, the fan power contacts in the relay are welded closed (power to the fan, regardless of the relay coil opening or closing).

First, you should check the relay. Remove it from the PDC. Look at the pin side of the relay. If the pins are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, use an Ohmmeter to check for continuity between pins 2 and 4 - there should be high to infinite resistance (contacts open), if you read continuity (near zero resistance) the power contacts are welded closed - replace the relay. [*If your relay pins are numbered 30, 85, 86., 87, 87A, read between pins 87 and 87A] A quick check of the relay is to swap the Fan Relay with the Starter Relay and see if it works okay.

If the relay checks okay, check for a short to ground in the relay control coil wire from the relay socket (not the relay) to the PCM. Disconnect the negative battery cable. Using an Ohmmeter check for continuity between pin 5 [*85] socket to chassis ground. You should see an open (high to infinate resistance). If there is continuity in this wire to ground disconnect the PCM harness connector and check the wire again. If there is still continuity to ground in this wire it's shorted to ground somewhere and needs to be repaired. If you read an open in this wire the PCM may be defective, providing a ground internally.
 
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Thanks sidewinder cc for the info.
I hope to be able to check things out tomorrow after work. I Did try multiple relays that are know to be good. I have been having some performance issues lately. It likes to stumble when cold and some times on the trail it will stall and not restart for 10 min or so. It liked to stall very frequently then i replaced the crank position sensor and now it is very rare. I have been assuming these problems where probably it just needing tuned up. i have had it for 4 years and don't know when the plugs wires and fuel filter where last changed so i picked up all that stuff a while ago and just havn't got it installed yet. Your info for checking the circuit is great i would of puzzled about how to do for quite a while before coming up with the right way to figure it out.
 
If you are having performance problems then it could be a bad ECT. I had a bad one several years ago that gave me problems. Got one from Advance Auto Parts and it fixed my problem. Wih your fan problem and performance problems maybe you should change yours.
 
ECT?
 
If you are having performance problems then it could be a bad ECT. I had a bad one several years ago that gave me problems. Got one from Advance Auto Parts and it fixed my problem. Wih your fan problem and performance problems maybe you should change yours.

If you think you want to change your CTS, before going through the drill of changing it, just plug the new one in to your CTS connector and see if it fixes your fan problem. If it doesn't, box it up and take it back to the store. Or, hang on to it until after you've resolved the fan problem and replace it to address performance problems.

See the last paragraph in my post above where I talk about checking the wire from the relay to the PCM.
 
If you think you want to change your CTS, before going through the drill of changing it, just plug the new one in to your CTS connector and see if it fixes your fan problem. If it doesn't, box it up and take it back to the store. Or, hang on to it until after you've resolved the fan problem and replace it to address performance problems.

See the last paragraph in my post above where I talk about checking the wire from the relay to the PCM.


Or just swap the existing one for say a 1000 ohm, or higher (up to 10,000 ohm?) resistor and see if the fan turns off.
 
Good suggestion Ecomike. 1,000 Ohms should put him in the ball park.

See pic below. I use a 470 Ohm (actually measures 463 Ohms) resistor to simulate approximately 235*F (indicated) to put my fan ON. bobyep would use the suggested 1,000 Ohm resistor in the same manner to see if it turns his fan OFF.

In the pic I refer to the connector as "ECT". In my '99 FSM it's called an Engine Coolant Temperature sensor....in covered wagon XJ's it's referred to as "ETS", Engine Temperature Sensor. :rolleyes:

XJECTJUMPER-1.jpg
 
Ok so i did the tests sidewinder cc described. With the pcm connected i had continuity and with the pcm disconected i had no continuity. So it sounds like i need to get a new pcm... anyone go a pcm for a 96 manual transmision laying around for sale cheap? i also tested the the cts and its readings were within specs.
 
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