Fab Vs Buy, Long Arm Vs Mid Arm

ok so ive decided to do a major exterior restoration and a suspention rebuild on my xj. im trying to get some more indepth info on control arm geomatry. and some good pros/cons for my ideas. so here goes...

im staying with the d30 up front. i have a grizz, stuffed with 4340 shafts. ill stay with 33" tires forever (this is my 4th xj build im shure) plus im guna truss it, maby sleve it aswell. ill stay around 4.5"/5" and ill be useing an ACOS.

i will DD it every once and a while so i need it to be reliable, but i will be hitting the best trails i can find. so ill also want it to preform.
TNT has been on my list for a long time. high located mounting points for the arms, full belly pan, Y link setup. i have herd bad things recently about Y-link setups eating UCA bushings and whatnot. this brings me to the question 3 link or 4? i have read that 3 links can brake steer, or steer themselves with the throdle. 4 link seems like the best system, most are WAY overpriced, not manny come with full belly protection "A MUST" and every time i look at one of thoes crossmembers. i cant find a resion why i could not build it myself.

so now i look into building my own setup...!!!1 OMG the possabilitys.
i know id like to use this

http://claytonoffroad.com/product_info.php/cPath/18_127/products_id/301

i have also found these
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop...ep-XJ-Front-Long-Arm-Bracket-Kit-p-20680.html

if i were to build one id do a full 4 link, jj's all around, and 2x2x.25" tube for the arms. my thaughts are here that id have to have the mounts further back on the frame rails D/T the clayton axle brackets. then im left at a loss as to where to mount the uppers. what i mean is i dont know where to set the uppers in conjunction to the lowers, as far as angles are conserned. is it as simple as the vertical distance from the UCA mounting point, to the LCA mounting poing on both the axle and crossmember? i know tough that these mathmatics are greatly efected by the length of the arms themselves. i havent the slightest how to calculate this crap. honastly i dont know if i want to take the time to deal with it. and build a belly pan.

theres a feiw kits i like. but none i want to throw that much $$$ at.

just looking for some advice, and pros/cons from the people who know best.
Thanks for looking. ill post the pics once i get the stuff going.

Bronze.

this tells me more.

http://claytonoffroad.com/product_info.php/cPath/18_71/products_id/269

Defintaly fab no matter what you do if you have the know how and the tools. As far as midarm/long arm, i personally went mid arm, even though i am on the long side of a mid arm. The reason i chose this is because it is cheapest because you have to buy the least DOM tubing, and you dont have to build a crossmember, therefore it is easier as well.

I daily drive my jeep right now, and the on road manners are very good as far as the front end is concerned, i dont notice any brake steer, or turning with the throttle.

twodoorXJ said:

Defintaly fab no matter what you do if you have the know how and the tools. As far as midarm/long arm, i personally went mid arm, even though i am on the long side of a mid arm. The reason i chose this is because it is cheapest because you have to buy the least DOM tubing, and you dont have to build a crossmember, therefore it is easier as well.

I daily drive my jeep right now, and the on road manners are very good as far as the front end is concerned, i dont notice any brake steer, or turning with the throttle.

Click to expand...

so i take it your on a home brew mid-arm 3-link? what did you do for frame brackets?

Bronze.

Bronzewyrm said:

i have read that 3 links can brake steer, or steer themselves with the throdle.

Click to expand...

never experienced this. tracks perfectly no matter what im doing.


there is nothing wrong with a 3 link. you just need to build it strong enough. this pretty much means no factory 10mm bolts and rubber bushings.

i did the midarm 3 link jam. love it

Bronzewyrm said:

so i take it your on a home brew mid-arm 3-link? what did you do for frame brackets?

Bronze.

Click to expand...

I used ballistic for frame side brackets, i had to modify it slightly.

I love the way it performs offroad, really kicks the crap out of the old IRO LA setup i had before, but id still like to add a little more beef. Once it gets a little warmer im going to plate the inside of the rail with some 1/8 inch plate and weld the frameside UCA mount to it, and add some gussets.

well i squashed the uni-frame so bad im going to be cutting the bottom of it out and stuffing it with some steel 1st. then i will build off that platform. i know i want either JJ's or heims all the way around it.

im really wondering this. if it was a 3-link. how do i know what angles to keep the arms at from each other? how do i calculate the arm length, lift heigth, and uca mounting heigth(both on the axle and the frame). im worried about the travel, i dont want it to bind up as it flexes, and mantining the pinion angle as the suspention cycles.

also what side to put the upper on? and i ask agin bennis of a 4link over a 3 :helpme:. i know im just missing some simple concept here... mid arm seems like a better fit to me than LA's

thx guies
Bronze

google "3 link geometry calculator". should have tons of info

stroked88 said:

google "3 link geometry calculator". should have tons of info

Click to expand...

yeah thats the part i dont want to invest a sit ton of time in. ive never used it and from what ive red it takes a couple years of trial and error befor you get everything with the calculators all dialed in. trying to get to the bottom of this i think im gettign closer to finalizing my parts list.

http://claytonoffroad.com/product_info.php/cPath/18_71/products_id/269
http://claytonoffroad.com/product_info.php/cPath/18_127/products_id/303
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/3LINKKT.html
http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/m...OS&Store_Code=JKS01&Category_Code=Coil_Spring

then ill just build a crossmember/belly pan setup.

Bronze.

i was going to use this: http://claytonoffroad.com/product_info.php/cPath/18_122/products_id/359

and this: http://claytonoffroad.com/product_info.php/cPath/18_72/products_id/165

and a couple of these: http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/125RESET.html


to put together a 3-link kit for myself