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Halloween Nightmare - 2000 Cherokee crack head

ChrisR

NAXJA Forum User
Location
NY
We've been searching for a Cherokee to be my son's first truck. We found a clean 00' Cherokee sport (136K) and had it inspected by a mechanic (not my mechanic car was not purchased local) and now (3 days later) found it to have a crack clyinder head (which I had learned about this sooner to be aware of the 0331 issue).

As you can imagine, my son is crushed (he's been saving for this moment). My Mechanic said it would be ~$1400 to replace the head and $2200 to put a used engine from another 2000 Cherokee. My mechanic is suggesting the engine change since he's had customers replace the head only to have another issue with the engine shortly after.

After just purchasing this Jeep I can't see investing another $2K into it.

- SHould I replace the head with an Alabama head (read about them on the forum) and keep my fingers crossed there's no other issues the previous owner created with the antifreeze leaking into the engine?

- Also should I expect the mechanic who I paid to inspect this Jeep should have seen signs of this and have some accountability - maybe cover the labor and I handle the cost of ther part?
 
If a mechanic inspected it and you found out within 3 days the head was cracked and he MISSED that SMALL tidbit, I'd definitely be not so happy with him and raise the issue to him.

Depending on your state law, you may have some legal standing for the seller to buy it back or fix it if it won't pass inspection/run.

Have you contacted the previous owner about it?

Your mechanic also sounds expensive.

Either way, best of luck, and sorry to hear about the troubles on the new (to you) Jeep.
 
1. Junkyard
2. Find a head that's not 0331 (any HO will work if im not mistaken)
3. Profit (I know my junkyard charges like 50 for a head) almost 2k.
/thread
 
Jeeps are a learning experience. With a few tools and genuine Jeep Cherokee Factory Service Manual, you can fix it yourself for a 75-85% savings. The kid needs to learn how fix his Jeep anyways.

Find a 2002+ 0331 head with the re-designed TUPY cylinder head. Have it tested (consider rebuilding) and install it.

You cannot just slap on an older style cylinder head, but with a few modifications you can adapt one to work. There are plenty of 0331 head threads and 0331 alternative head install threads on the many different Jeep Forums, just use your Google.
 
So here's some additional information on my situation.

As I mentioned I had the car inspected by a mechanic but...

1) 2 days later my son complained it was not getting much heat and I noticed the temp wasn't getting much above 165.
2) So I brought it to my mechanic and he flushe the entire coolant system and heater core... and we got heat.
3) few hours later I noticed the milkness in the oil and the reservoir for the antifreeze lost, not a little, but a lot liquid. The level on the dipstick is up.

So... I am trying to contact the previous owner but doubt that will get me anywhere as it was AS-IS. and I have the mechanic who did the initial inspecting to come look at the Jeep on Friday. At a minimum, I am hoping the mechanic will step up to help me with the cost to replace the head and we'll keep the fingers crossed that everything else is fine with the engine.

Love the Jeep but not a good start.
 
Appreciate the link... read through it a few times.

So here's my main question... are most folks finding replacing the cylinder head works out ok for them? I have no history on how long the previous owner had the issue. But when I drove it home the day I purchased it, it ran like a top with good oil pressure.
 
First, I am not a mechanic. Second, I've rebuilt from the ground up 1 VW Transportor, and it's engine, a 1500cc w/1600 heads, and ran it on gasoline, and propane. Another engine I rebuilt was a 258 AMC Jeep Cherokee engine, just for fun. Another was a head job on a 1700cc Ford Courier, and it's installation. Point is: is that there is some controversy regards head-replacements, and whether there is a need to do the lower, or not. Type of gaskets, head bolts, etc., and the ever forgotten to do.., in service torque check(s).

Many obtain a used head from a yard, and I have! Some say only new, and too, I have done so. I have 'ground' my valve seats, and have let machine shops do it.

If you get a used head from some yard, either by pulling it yourself, or off of their shelf, take it home. You can do a couple of checks if you have some tools. You can remove the valves, and look for some burn spots.., i.e., major differences in colorizations along the head valve seats, and edges of valve rim/seat. You can look for melted away spots at/or on each issue. At the same time, you can look down into your cylinders to see if there are any melted areas on the top edge of any piston.., and can look for terrible scuff/stratches on the cyl. walls. That's another determination for a different thread. If you do not want to pay for the valve removal/installation tool, (always buy a good one, [hundred bucks, +/-], or rent), then at the very least, before you take it to an automotive machine shop, set it upside down, i.e., springs down, and with a can of WD-40, and a sheet of glass you can do a "warp-check". Bubble-Level out the head on the support stand, table, etc., and then spray all gasket flatsf, i.e., just spray the whole thing, and then carefully lower the clean sheet of glass down onto the head. What happens when you have an unwarped head is that the contact surface of the glass on the WD-40, will spread out evenly. If warped, the glass will not contact the WD-40, and you will see that. There are some technical details about how much 'surfacing' can be done before you have to make some spacer adjustments on the opposite side. Usually, if the oem head is not to warped, it'll probably be ok for a little surfacing. I've done surfacing on several heads with nothing more than a good file, and carefully making constant checking with the glass sheet. Using a magic-marker to delineate progress works well. If you look at the other side, and the valve rims/seats to head valve seats look ok, (use a magnifying glass), you are in good luck. That would indicate that all the springs are within spring values, and the used head did not experience damage severe enough to go have them, and the valves replaced, and the surfacing done. You can do all aspects of the job as heretofore mentioned.., as long as everything is good, i.e., you are just cleaning, and checking, slight surfacing, and possibly replacing oem parts, if needed, and again, with good luck you will not need to do that.

Here is where there is some controversy. I do not claim to know which is best. However, if you can, get a pressure gauge to fit your spark plug holes into the head, on the engine, and turn over the engine, (without firing it up, and over, i.e., just around 4, 5 quick turns, and read the gauge, write it down for that cyl. You will look in your manual to see the values for ok readings. It will all be explained in the rather inexpensive Haine's Man., or the more expensive official super-duper OEM, (for your year), Service Manual(which you shoul get anyway, or visit your library, and get lucky, lol). If the pressure values are within allowance, you are good to go with the 'clean used head'. If the pressure values are skippy bad on one or more cylinders, then you are looking at some replacement rings, and perhaps piston wrist pins, and perhaps some rod bearings. In either case, a replacement head that is tighter due to replacing with new parts might be too much for the lower to deal with, i.e., more pressure to deal with than what the skippy cylinders can handle. In which case you would get a lot of blow-by, and other issues. The idea is to 'match' top and bottom as per being able to handle the explosions. I know, it's controversal, but that is the way it is. Two camps. My suggestion is to make those checks on the used head, and if that is good, and your cyl. pressures on that check are ok, you can probably, with confidence, get away with putting a used replacement head, on what is a used engine, i.e., both have around the same mileage to better match. The ONE THING you better not forget to do is to obtain brand new OEM HEAD-BOLTS. Search the forum(s), for the best head gasket for the 4.0. Also, after about a couple, or three, or four gasoline tank refills, take your valve cover off, and check the torgue values of those new bolts, i.e., loosen them up a quarter turn, and re-tighten to specifications again. This latter proceedure is often overlooked, or forgotten, or dis-ed, etc., but it is very important. Things stretch, (bolts), and warp, (head), and after a bit of driving the possibility of those happenings to happen are paramount, making it, (IN SERVICE), necessary to re-check, to prevent.

To me, the only bitch is all the crap around the head, i.e., electrical/fuel/manifolds, etal, that stand in the way, causing time, and removal problems. In a way, with father and son trips.., I'd get together, have a discussion about what the deal is all about, i.e., what pluses, and minuses, possible hold-ups, broken studs, etc., can cause as per attitudes, and adjustments, thereof. (Both should study up so as to fill in any proceedural memory gaps). Drilling a hole into a broken stud, using an 'easy-out', and having that break, can cause possible grief. However, the rational, logical thing to do, is then take the head, or other parts to some mechanic that has other options/tools/knowlege to better deal with those so-called minor issues, lol. As Tim_MN said, it's a good thing for your son to get involved, for his own sake, too.

While you are studying the forum(s) thread(s), you can obtain a manual, and begin the tear down process in an orderly manner, labelling everything, using plastic sandwich bags, egg cartons, etc., to place all parts neatly someplace. Having rather dedicated places to place tools will help too, since wasting time looking for tools, or parts, will be frustrating.., and remember, time is money. I could do some head work in several hours in the old days, lol, but now with all the complicated easy to break connections, I's say the 4.0 will take longer. Perhaps someone, or more, will break in and share the hours it takes to do the job on average. I do not have that automotive time/data before me.

My hope is that the two camps will offer up a small debate, and/or make other suggestions, pro, and/or con to mine, so that you can write down in a note book what will be your judgement call alone, and perhaps with your son.., on what we input, and then make a shopping list. Best wishes for future happy trails:us:
 
Alaskan89

Thanks for your helpful input. As much as I would like to take this on as a project with my son. Unfortunately, I have no mechanical background and probably lack some of the required tools to take on the challenge on myself. Guess I could change all that, buy the manual and tools and go for it.

Seeing I just purchased this Jeep and have no history with it, I am leaning towards replacing the cylinder head. I contacted the previous owner, as you might expect they are denying any knowledge of the problem so I'm on my own with the expense. I do have the mechanic who pre-inspected the Jeep coming by tomorrow, so I am curious to see what he has to say about the mess he/I got myself into. I am hoping he will take some accountability and help with the repair cost.
 
...yeah, I have found that playing defendent/plaintiff, lawyer, etc., is like a 'put-off' to many.., especially more reasonable folks. One mechanic I found to help with areas where my back can't go underneath vehicle trying to bust rusted fasteners, etc., ended up spending 6 hours on one freaking nut/stud. Did he charge me? No! When he finished several days of work, did he charge me lots? No! Did I give him more money than he asked when I asked, "well.., how much do you want? Yes! I guess when one acts man to man, (instead of client to professional), referencing that 'one does not have a whole lot of money' to put into the project, providing snacks, beverages, humor, the fellowship kicks in, not the gouging. It's your call.., and if your mechanic acquaintance is looking for repeat business.., he'll either be a pig, or a brother. 'Feel' out the situation, rather than busting him over the head with you screwed up, and now you owe me, blah, blah, blah. The 'sue me, sue you blues' is a bad song, yet so much in vogue these last days. Remember you catch ______ with honey, not vinegar. That inspection mechanic may not be willing to give you one dime, i.e., it was ok when he inspected it.., (like come on.., maybe the vehicle burnt some rubber out on the road, or was in the wrong gear for too long, and on, and on), but may be willing to give you time, i.e., willing to stop by every once in awhile to give you a hand, advice, etc. You'd be very fortunate for that much. Ask him what you will need to do the job, and make a list in front of him. He may make the quick realization that you are novice, and become someone who will provide.

If you go to one of those big box stores you can probably find every basic tool in a cheap godless commie chinese socket/wrench set to tear down, and put back together again. A hydraulic lifter removal tool. You should spend a bit of money, (not too much though), for a 'tap' to clean out head bolt HOLES, and if you can't afford new oem head bolts, get a 'die' to clean them up. Given where you are at you can take the bolt to a mechanic, and either borrow, or rent.., (I have not done a 4.0, so I do not know if the head bolts are metric, or SAE), same goes for the valve spring compressor tool, (which are mostly universal). Once you have cleaned up everything, and have a gasket set, you will need a basic torque wrench. It's not so bad of a job. Point is when you get the manual you will see it is so. However stuff happens, so there could be some minor setbacks as mentioned in earlier posts. Most of us have never done anything until we did, lol. Good luck!
 
Awesome advice Alaskan. Well said. :thumbup:

I've never posted here, but I hope I get advice like that if I ever post about a problem.
 
OK... so as we expected, the mechanic who preinspected the Jeep is claiming no accountability. Sounds like a home inspector... "I can't see pass the walls to know there was a cracked cylinder head". Of course he is willing to give me a quote to repair the head and claims he is giving me a break at $550 in labor to replace it. Parts are on me, what a champ!

So. today I ordered a cylinder head from Clearwater ($475) and found a reputable mechanic who will replace the head for $510 + gasket kit. As I just purchased the car (a week ago) and have no history with it, I feel like I am taking a gamble that nothing else, like the bearings might be worn.

I would be curious to know how many folks had success in just replacing the cylinder head with no additional issues. Most mechanics tell me changing the head should be fine. The Jeep is a 00' with 135K in nice shape. I purchased it for $3600 and now adding $1200 already to it. :wow:
 
Well, if it makes you feel any better, a clean '00 XJ w/135K in my area runs about $5000, so you haven't broke the bank yet. ;)

I would be concerned if it had run for long with the crack and contaminated oil, but it sounds like you caught it in good time. As durable as the 4.0 is, the bottom end shouldn't be too worn at 135K. Same as you though, I would want to hear from someone who had experienced this for some reinforcement.

Not me, in other words... ;) I'm only reading this because I have a '00 w/a 0331.

Anyway, please let us know how things progress.
 
So .. here's my plan.

I ordered a Clearwater cylinder head ($475) and was quote $550 by my mechanic to replace the head. By the time it's all done the damage should be around $1200.

As I just purchased the Jeep and have no history on how the PO handled the issue, I do feel like I am taking a gamble that the lower end of the engine is OK.

I did speak to several mechanics who told me if the Jeep had no noticeable knock, no smoke when I dorve it home, I should be fine.

After I replace the head, is there a period (1 week, 3 mos,...?) of time where if not knock or smoke is seen I can feel comfortable to Jeep will be solid to keep and drive to Doomsday? A part of me does want to sell the Jeep after the head is swapped, so I don't sink deeper into this. But my son really likes the Jeep.

I'm really ticked that the PO was not open about the cracked head. This is my son's first car which he's been saving for. I called the PO asking if they had any moral conscious to maybe help with the bill. Although pruchases "AS_IS" I may still take them to small claims court, just to make them suffer a little and to teach my son to at least stand up against scammers. - sorry for venting,
 
Although pruchases "AS_IS" I may still take them to small claims court, just to make them suffer a little and to teach my son to at least stand up against scammers. - sorry for venting,


This would be a good thing to teach, and for him to learn. Simple process on one hand, an emotional barrier to overcome on the other. Worth it, IMO.

Also, I think XJ's are keepers. Book value or other doesn't mean much. The simplicity of these vehicles, alone, make chasing after problems less of a hassle. To that end teach also: address entire systems, not just components, when problems come up.

Used or chain store parts are for a vehicle about to be sold; brand-new factory parts are for keepers.

Age and time take their toll. Vehicles crutched along are never quite reliable enough to drive cross-country (so why own it). The best vehicles are cared for correctly.
 
Be sure to change your oil/filter 2-3 times in a very short period of time after this work is done. One oil change will not purge any remaining coolant. Oil is CHEAP.
 
How is the oil pressure? I definitely wouldn't drive it until you get the head fixed. Coolant in the oil will ruin the bearings, but if you still have okay oil pressure than you will be okay with just replacing the head.

I replaced the head on mine with an Alabama Cylinder head as a preventative measure. I'm sure once you replace the head the jeep will be very reliable. That sucks about the previous owner but not much you can do about that. When I first got mine I had to redo the entire cooling system since the previous owner never took care of it. The Jeep has been dead reliable since.

Jeeps are also a perfect first car. Easy to work on, parts are cheaper than other brands. You can do most repairs with basic hand tools and the how-to threads on this forum. Very reliable and safe. My previous (first) vehicle was a Cherokee and I got T-boned by some lady doing 50 mph in a snow storm. The Jeep was totaled but I walked away without a scratch.
 
i think you will be ok, i had the head on my 94 limiter warped, i didn't realise that the clutch fan clutch had failed.

i had the head overhauled and skimmed and put back on, that was 8 years ago and all good

the car has done 394,000 km and still runs ok
 
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