Why can't i find a new track bar with no play?

Dead stock 5 Speed 1997 XJ with 190K.

Drove pretty good when i first bought it in 2006, but after several months, it began to display a bit of wander. I replaced the sloppy OE track bar with a Advance auto parts cheapie with some improvement, but i still felt that the vehicle had more wander than it should, but the control arm busing were worn, so i figured that was a contributor....

Moved to AZ and got back into the auto repair field. Replaced all the CA busing with new ones, but no real improvement. Replaced a worn track bar bushing with a urethane one. Checked all front end components for looseness, but honestly didn't pay that much attention to the newish track bar, since it was less than 2 years old with no off-road use. All tight as can be, and an alignment showed ( surprisingly, considering age/mileage ) that every single spec was near dead-factory. No play in steering box either. Kind of put the issue aside...

A few years later and i am out of the auto field again, but over this past winter, i noticed an increase in the wandering. A quick check shows that the ball-socket end of the track bar now has play, as well as the tie rod at the pit man arm, along with a leaking steering damper. All replaced, with great improvement...but still the lingering wander, present since shortly after buying, was still there.
So i had the wife turn the wheel and checked the front again, and i was completely surprised to see the NEW track bar moving on the ball-socket end. Not the mount, or a worn hole in the mount, but the stud staying still while the bar moved, maybe 3/8". WTF?

At this point, a light went on in the old noggin. I bet that the NEW bar i installed a few years back always had play, even when new. I mean, who checks a new part for play? And i would bet that even though they came from different stores, they probably came from the same supplier...and both were "cheap" replacements. I took it back to AutoZone and got the money back, went to O'Reilys and plopped the $100 or so down for a new Moog premium track bar ( clearly much beefier than the others ), happy that i had finally found the source of my wander....

So imagine my great surprise to find little to no improvement in the wander upon installing this new Moog bar. Even more, checking the front again shows that it ALSO has play at the ball socket end...maybe 1/8-1/4". Less than the cheapies, but still significant!

At this point, i am starting to second guess myself and my knowledge. I know that ANY play here is a major no-no...and i am starting to wonder if the only solution here is an OEM bar ( a $$$ Heim-joint job seems to be a waste on a stock jeep ).

So to conclude this long post: Is there some spec of allowed play for the ball-socket end of a track bar that i have never managed to come across, or are all aftermarket stock replacements just not designed right? Do i really have to go OEM to fix this?

Thanks all.

most guys ditch their stock type tracbars because of what you are going through. even new they suck. if you have already gone through all of the above trouble its time for an upgrade.

bails85 said:

most guys ditch their stock type tracbars because of what you are going through. even new they suck. if you have already gone through all of the above trouble its time for an upgrade.

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Yes...but upgrade to what? Most of the bars I've seen are for lifted jeeps. Mines stock.

I've seen the adjustable ones with a replaceable tie-rod end installed...but if Moog or whoever can't make a track-bar end with no slop, why should i expect them to make a tie-rod end ( same component ) that doesn't do the same thing?

Is the axle side trackbar mount wallowed out any? You can replace the metric bolt with a 7/16" bolt and a nut and it will usually fit alittle tighter. But check the mounting hole carefully. If wallowed out you can weld a washer to the front of the mount to "help" with the issue.

How is it you are reproducing or seeing this movement at the frame end ? There are only 2 possible causes, the tie rod end like joint and the taper in the bracket itself. Have you replaced the frame bracket hardware ? As suggested, have you inspected the axle end mounting hole and mounting bolt ?

My 99 has 179156 miles and still has the original stock track bar. it doesn't wander.

What kind of tires are you running ? Are they following the crown in the roadway or grooves in the pavement ?

For all the screwing around with cheap "Lifetime Warranty" parts you have done, you could have instead bought an Iron Rock Off Road or other brand Double Shear HD track bar and been done with it long ago.

Tim_MN said:

How is it you are reproducing or seeing this movement at the frame end ?

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With the wheels on a concrete pad in my yard with the wife turning the steering wheel.

Tim_MN said:

There are only 2 possible causes, the tie rod end like joint and the taper in the bracket itself. Have you replaced the frame bracket hardware ? As suggested, have you inspected the axle end mounting hole and mounting bolt ?

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Correct.
As stated, the rod end joint has play. The stud, the mounting bracket, and the axle end of the rod do not move ( as far as the hole ). There is perceptible miniscule deflection in the bushing at the axle end as one would expect from a rubber bushing, but it is a normal amount. I have a good urethane bushing that i removed from the old bar, but oddly, it wouldn't fit the Moog bar.

Tim_MN said:

What kind of tires are you running ? Are they following the crown in the roadway or grooves in the pavement ?

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Stock sized generic brand that looks like the old Goodyear Wrangler pattern from the early 90's. This is the third set of tires i have had on the Jeep, and all have driven the same.

Tim_MN said:

For all the screwing around with cheap "Lifetime Warranty" parts you have done, you could have instead bought an Iron Rock Off Road or other brand Double Shear HD track bar and been done with it long ago.

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Well....not really.
The first track bar a few years back could have been replaced or returned had inspected the new bar and found play. The newer one was returned for money back when it was found to be junk. At that point i went and got a "quality" replacement in the Moog for $100 that should have been as good as anything OEM like, but apparently isn't.
Realistically, i am out $100 as i sit, and that bar has a lifetime warranty on it, but how do i convince the store that this new track-bar, that feels tight when wiggled in hand, has play? Maybe i should shoot video. I should have returned it that day...but right now i am not convinced that they all don't have some tiny play, despite what we are taught in auto tech. The only one i haven't tried is the OEM.

Here's the other thing: Why would i need a $200 Off-Road super-duper track bar for a dead stock XJ? All the ones i see ( like the one you listed ) are for lifts, so who knows if they even work with a stock height. And...if i could afford a $200 track bar, would i really be fooling with cheap Chinese parts? This is a daily driver that sees some light trail use, not some toy that i throw wads of cash at each week.

For those that will ask: The tie rod ends, the wheel bearings, ball joints, steering box, and steering shaft are all tight.

Well....i was wrong!

After spending some quality time on my back while the wife built up her steering muscles ( ), i came to the above conclusion. The cheapie track bars had play...i am certain of this, but the Moog does not.

What i was actually seeing in the track bar deflecting slightly at the curve near the diff and rotating at the ball socket. If you watch at the center line of the socket, there is no horizontal movement. So my mistake by blaming the track bar.

So...anyone have suggestions as to fixing the slight wander issues?

My friend has a 96, and has said his did the same thing until he went to a heavy duty steering damper. I was thinking this would be a band-aid fix for mine since the TB was bad...but now, it does intrigue me. My XJ DOES seem to steer very lightly despite having a new damper on it ( and yes Tim, it is a cheapie )...and does have some of the shudders, but again, i was blaming this on my belief that the track bar was bad.

I'm thinking of trying the Kevin's Off road damper that bolts on. Whaddya think?

I replaced a old 185,000+ mile track bar and steering damper with a track bar and damper from Kevin's in 2007. Kind of expensive and critized negatively by many on this forum. I love my choice and am very happy with it. I chose Kevin's track bar because of the rubber bushings at both ends. Most on this forum says if it is not a heim or johnny joint it is crap. Well, my answer is some of us like to wear flip-flops and others prefer snake skin boots. Either unit you choose,...and I think you should buy both the track bar and the steering damper. You will not regret it.

techno1154 said:

I replaced a old 185,000+ mile track bar and steering damper with a track bar and damper from Kevin's in 2007. Kind of expensive and critized negatively by many on this forum. I love my choice and am very happy with it. I chose Kevin's track bar because of the rubber bushings at both ends. Most on this forum says if it is not a heim or johnny joint it is crap. Well, my answer is some of us like to wear flip-flops and others prefer snake skin boots. Either unit you choose,...and I think you should buy both the track bar and the steering damper. You will not regret it.

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I will start with the damper and see how it drives.

I thought the price for the KOR damper was pretty reasonable. Inline with units from Rancho and Skyjacker. I'm sure its a relabeled something or other....

the dampener is just a band-aid. it can and does most often cover up the issue. It is there to take out the jarring effects of the steering. A proper set up steering and suspension will have no death wobble and or wandering with the steering stabilizer removed.

depending where in Az you are there are many members in that chapter. See if one or a few will come by and check it out for/with yah. Always better to get a second or more pair of eyes on an issue that is giving you hell. Get the food and the adult beverages and have a "find my XJ's issue party"....lol

Get a double sheer track bar from iron rock offroad it even comes with a new upper mount. Never have to worry about it again. Plus if you ever do lift it you won't have to get a new track bar, just a longer adjustable end.

After almost 2 years of complaining of the same wandering after replacing all steering; linkage, track bar, dampener and steering box, it was still there! I noticed the same flaw in the design of the track bar and choose to go with Kevins bar and KOR dampener a year ago and would also say it's a much better set up and well worth the coin I spent and would do it again. (no I don't work with or am related or trying to sell his stuff) but want to say I'm very happy now. Regardless I have to agree that just replacing the dampener doesn't sound like your fix. Even after replacing the track bar I did see great improvement there was still something wrong. For my rig I have a 3.5 lift and when done I put on a drop pitman arm that was made with slop at the box end as well as the reman box (A1 Cardone) was crap. Great way to waste 550 dollars, not to mention the cost to replace again...I'm glad to say my rig drives like an arrow (on wheels) now. Just a suggestion but check the box shaft again. Even after I had three tire places check (that I won't go back to) none noticed the bad reman box and pitman arm. No matter which way you decide to go, let us know how it goes.
Good luck!

Click-Click-Pull said:

After almost 2 years of complaining of the same wandering after replacing all steering; linkage, track bar, dampener and steering box, it was still there! I noticed the same flaw in the design of the track bar and choose to go with Kevins bar and KOR dampener a year ago and would also say it's a much better set up and well worth the coin I spent and would do it again. (no I don't work with or am related or trying to sell his stuff) but want to say I'm very happy now. Regardless I have to agree that just replacing the dampener doesn't sound like your fix. Even after replacing the track bar I did see great improvement there was still something wrong. For my rig I have a 3.5 lift and when done I put on a drop pitman arm that was made with slop at the box end as well as the reman box (A1 Cardone) was crap. Great way to waste 550 dollars, not to mention the cost to replace again...I'm glad to say my rig drives like an arrow (on wheels) now. Just a suggestion but check the box shaft again. Even after I had three tire places check (that I won't go back to) none noticed the bad reman box and pitman arm. No matter which way you decide to go, let us know how it goes.
Good luck!

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I am hesitant to replace the stock TB now that i know it is "tight". This deflection i noted comes at the steering at the stops while still cranking the wheel...lots of pressure, in other words...more so that you would likely see just driving down the road. And i did note during installation that this Moog bar ( part of the Moog "problem solver" series ) is significantly more beefy than the other bars used ( including the OEM ). In short, i don't think the improvement-per-dollar ratio for my stoker is worth the investment.

And the thing is...after driving it the last few days, it really doesn't drive all that bad. It may drive as nice as any other stocker...i dunno. So many things these days have gone to rack and pinion that this is the only recirculating-ball ( IE steering box ) vehicle i have driven since 2009. I think it does have a little more wander than it should, but there is no sense of slop in the steering whatsoever.

KOR steering damper may get a go. The XJ seems to steer very lightly ( more so than the last customer one i drove ), and shows signs of the shudders you normally get when a damper goes bad. The caster is in spec. The damper is new, but it is a cheap one, and i am not sure that it is as stiff as a stocker would have been. Normally id consider the damper as covering up any other problems...but then i consider what effect having slightly higher resistance to steering movement would have on the vehicle, and this seems like it might be the trick.

I have a friend ( also a tech ) who has a 1996 with entirely new suspension under it, and i mentioned in conversation to him what was going on. He stated that his XJ did the exact same thing despite being all new until he put a heavy duty damper on it. This shouldn't have fixed this problem, but did.

My theory is that these vehicles, as they age, develop very light amounts of play...not just the usual places like linkage and box, but in the track bar mounting area and the steering box mounting area...and the whole body structure for that matter. Just as the unibody starts to sag after hardcore use, these areas loose rigidity after years of repeated stresses from driving. By themselves, they are not significant, but added together, the effect is simply "looser" driving than a new, low mile example. And as such, they need more damping than when new to drive in a reasonable manner. I dunno!

DGJeeper said:

I am hesitant to replace the stock TB now that i know it is "tight". This deflection i noted comes at the steering at the stops while still cranking the wheel...lots of pressure, in other words...more so that you would likely see just driving down the road. And i did note during installation that this Moog bar ( part of the Moog "problem solver" series ) is significantly more beefy than the other bars used ( including the OEM ). In short, i don't think the improvement-per-dollar ratio for my stoker is worth the investment.

And the thing is...after driving it the last few days, it really doesn't drive all that bad. It may drive as nice as any other stocker...i dunno. So many things these days have gone to rack and pinion that this is the only recirculating-ball ( IE steering box ) vehicle i have driven since 2009. I think it does have a little more wander than it should, but there is no sense of slop in the steering whatsoever.

KOR steering damper may get a go. The XJ seems to steer very lightly ( more so than the last customer one i drove ), and shows signs of the shudders you normally get when a damper goes bad. The caster is in spec. The damper is new, but it is a cheap one, and i am not sure that it is as stiff as a stocker would have been. Normally id consider the damper as covering up any other problems...but then i consider what effect having slightly higher resistance to steering movement would have on the vehicle, and this seems like it might be the trick.

I have a friend ( also a tech ) who has a 1996 with entirely new suspension under it, and i mentioned in conversation to him what was going on. He stated that his XJ did the exact same thing despite being all new until he put a heavy duty damper on it. This shouldn't have fixed this problem, but did.

My theory is that these vehicles, as they age, develop very light amounts of play...not just the usual places like linkage and box, but in the track bar mounting area and the steering box mounting area...and the whole body structure for that matter. Just as the unibody starts to sag after hardcore use, these areas loose rigidity after years of repeated stresses from driving. By themselves, they are not significant, but added together, the effect is simply "looser" driving than a new, low mile example. And as such, they need more damping than when new to drive in a reasonable manner. I dunno!

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WOW! :sure: You have all the bases covered. Why do you even need ?

techno1154 said:

WOW! :sure: You have all the bases covered. Why do you even need ?

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Somebody's gotta hand me the beers...

Even though the ball joints may seem tight, I would replace them.

iwannadie said:

Even though the ball joints may seem tight, I would replace them.

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Why?

DGJeeper said:

Why?

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My ball joints seemed perfectly fine and tight. I replaced them and it was night/day difference, I also had a wander that was gone after new ball joints.

iwannadie said:

My ball joints seemed perfectly fine and tight. I replaced them and it was night/day difference, I also had a wander that was gone after new ball joints.

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Were they seized?