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Ca. Smog Fail again, stumped HELP!

slikxj

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Tijuana
First test high on both HC and CO%. I had a bad TPS at the time of the first test. So new and adjusted TPS, new Bosch oxygen sensor and new cat. Spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor good condition. Now on second test excellent numbers on HC and CO%, but only during the 15 mph test. At 25 mph big time fail, especially CO%. Could it be a bad MAP , CTS or EGR valve? Thanks in advance

First Test
IMAG0279.jpg


Second Test
IMAG0277.jpg
 
When was the last time you did a full tune-up (plugs, rotor cap, oil change etc)? Did you adjust the TPS properly?
 
See that number on the sheet...800-952-5210? The Bureau of Automotive Repair offers financial assistance to anybody. After they approve your application, they will give you a list of approved shops. The shop you choose will diagnose and fix the problem. After you pay the first $100, BAR will pay up to $500. If you qualify as being "low-income", you only have to pay the first $20.

I went this route after my MJ failed smog twice last year. I took it to an approved shop and they said that I needed a new cat. So I got a new Magnaflow cat installed and it just cost me $100.
 
I just posted on the smog results thread, sorry for double posting! I'm over the low income bracket, so being this my copay would be $100 then? And for the oil quality I swore I had just changed it, it's at the 3,000 mile mark, need new oil.
 
Yes, you'd have the pay the first $100 and any difference over $500. Luckily, my total bill was $596. I think the shop did that so that I wouldn't have to pay any more than the initial $100 and so they could receive the maximum from BAR. :)
 
Yes, you'd have the pay the first $100 and any difference over $500. Luckily, my total bill was $596. I think the shop did that so that I wouldn't have to pay any more than the initial $100 and so they could receive the maximum from BAR. :)

Right on! I would like to troubleshoot the issue myself, but It's looking more troublesome than I thought. Thanks
 
Fast forward and still the same! All sensors have been double checked by me and a diagnostic technician. At idle and below 1,500 rpms everything is good, no smoke, steady idle and no hesitation or bucking. Changed oil, new fuel filter, plugs, wires, rotor and cap in good condition. When I gas it over 3,000 rpms at idle it smokes and smells quite stinky, It's a new California magnaflow cat. Basically it still has the super rich condition. After reading day and night, I'm down to two conclusions, dirty c101 connector or bad computer. The injectors are 5.0 19lb ones, had them for roughly 4 years. The engine idles good, doesn't overheat at all, good power. Just above 3,000 it has issues, reason why it fails the 25 mph roller test.
 
Try this. Connect the positive lead of your meter to the brown with white wire at the TPS harness. Connect the negative lead to your negative battery post. How many ohms of resistance do you have?

If this sensor ground reads over 1 ohm that could be your problem. The same ground is used for TPS, IAT, CTS, and MAP. So even though your sensors test good, the ECU isn't seeing the correct signals from them. I just fixed 2 Jeeps recently with this problem.
 
Try this. Connect the positive lead of your meter to the brown with white wire at the TPS harness. Connect the negative lead to your negative battery post. How many ohms of resistance do you have?

If this sensor ground reads over 1 ohm that could be your problem. The same ground is used for TPS, IAT, CTS, and MAP. So even though your sensors test good, the ECU isn't seeing the correct signals from them. I just fixed 2 Jeeps recently with this problem.

Note that the ohms test is done with power off, engine off.

Also check for a vacuum leak on the vacuum line going to the MAP sensor.
Try disconnecting the O2 sensor, the TPS sensor, one at a time, to see if the problem changes, then reconnect each one. Also try disconnecting and plugging the EGR vacuum line and see if the problem changes, then reconnect it.

You may have an engine problem, sticking rings, a rare alignment of the gap in the rings, worn valve seals, valves not seating at higher rpms, so I would check compression.

Renix ECU's are rarely the problem.


What RPM are they running the test at????? Mine here are only at about 1650 RPM!!!! Why 4-5,000 RPM????

Check the wires to the O2 sensor, one should be larger than the other 2 and should have about 13-14 volts on it, that goes to the O2 sensor's internal heater. If the heater in the O2 sensor is bad or the 13-14 volts is missing the engine will run too rich causing black smoke (should read about 8 ohms to the O2 sensor ground wire, which is one of the other 2 wires on the O2 sensor, with the O2 sensor disconnected). Bad O2 sensor or bad O2 sensor wires, or bad O2 sensor heater relay will make it run rich and cause black smoke at high RPMs!!!!

Once you fix the problem, run some Gumout through it to clean out the excess carbon before the next inspection.
 
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Try this. Connect the positive lead of your meter to the brown with white wire at the TPS harness. Connect the negative lead to your negative battery post. How many ohms of resistance do you have?

If this sensor ground reads over 1 ohm that could be your problem. The same ground is used for TPS, IAT, CTS, and MAP. So even though your sensors test good, the ECU isn't seeing the correct signals from them. I just fixed 2 Jeeps recently with this problem.

It came out to 1.2 ohms
 
Thanks EcoMike! I will check the 02 leads tonight. I was trying to duplicate the high speed fail from the test, that's why the high rpm in neutral.
 
Many sleepless nights and a lot of new parts later, it was the ignition coil arcing that gave a rich condition. I put a new one and passed smog as new. Thanks for the replies, at least now i know that everything else is working properly.
 
NEVER wouldve guessed that one...

was there any signs of arcing? black burn marks or melted paint?
how did whoever eventually come to this conclusion?

thanks for posting back what your problem was.
 
First test high on both HC and CO%. I had a bad TPS at the time of the first test. So new and adjusted TPS, new Bosch oxygen sensor and new cat. Spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor good condition. Now on second test excellent numbers on HC and CO%, but only during the 15 mph test. At 25 mph big time fail, especially CO%. Could it be a bad MAP , CTS or EGR valve? Thanks in advance

Elevated HC and CO point to incompleat combustion - for some reason, you're not burning all of your fuel. This could be an EGR issue (I didn't see your year - after 1991, you don't have one,) a running rich issue, cold plugs, or the catalytic converter is starting to fail (the matrix in the cat, when it gets heated up, helps to finish the combustion of HC and CO into H2O and CO2.)

A failed/failing TPS doesn't often cause mix trouble (it can, but it usually doesn't,) but I'd definitely want to check the MAP and CTS - and the IAC - because they have rather more effect on fuel mix than the TPS does.

Bear in mind that temperature sensors are generally "termistor" type - they follow an odd decreasing curve (I haven't plotted it) in resistance as the temperature increases. Test specs are available - the CTS can be checked with an ohmmeter, a pot of water, and a candy thermometer; the IAT can be checked with a similar thermometer and a hair dryer on low (and an ohmmeter...) Instead of directly turning the hair dryer on the IAT, put the sensor in a shoe box (or similar large container) and use the hair dryer on LOW to heat up the air in the box. It may be gently enclosed to preserve heat.
 
NEVER wouldve guessed that one...

was there any signs of arcing? black burn marks or melted paint?
how did whoever eventually come to this conclusion?

thanks for posting back what your problem was.

I have a mazda protege that had a stumbling problem. Since I work nights, i popped the hood one night and the coil wad arcing with the valve cover. Replaced the coil and problem solved. I just happened to do the same with my XJ. The coil had small arcs all over, the cables were also lighting up, cool light show lol! As I put the new coil last night did a test run and cero arcs. So I gathered some of my bits and pieces of shattered hopes and took it in for smog this morning. Passed with flying colors, ill post a pic of the results.
 
And a public thanks to 5-90 and ecomike, I've read pretty much all of you're posts, you guys rock! Now about that zddp oil issue LOL!
 
I have a mazda protege that had a stumbling problem. Since I work nights, i popped the hood one night and the coil wad arcing with the valve cover. Replaced the coil and problem solved. I just happened to do the same with my XJ. The coil had small arcs all over, the cables were also lighting up, cool light show lol! As I put the new coil last night did a test run and cero arcs. So I gathered some of my bits and pieces of shattered hopes and took it in for smog this morning. Passed with flying colors, ill post a pic of the results.

be sure to post your before and after data, and the fix on my Emissions data collection thread. It is not a trouble shooting thread, but just a gathering of our emission test data year to year, as a reference!

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=966054&highlight=emission+data

FWIW, bad HV coils on jeeps seem to be rather rare.
 
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