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need some advice on inverted-T steering

B

Ben824

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Woodstock, GA
Ok so I am having to slowly replace alot of the OEM parts that are wearing out on my 97 XJ that is now 14 years old and has 200,000+ miles on it. I have it lifted 3.5" and sitting on 33x12.50r15 KM2s.

The steering has seen better days and I would like to replace/upgrade. I want to move away from inverted-y style I just don't like the design and how the toe changes when you hit a bump/dip in the road. Its just a personal preference.

I have seen this pop on here http://www.seriousoffroadproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=77765

And I was thinking about maybe getting it since it is rather affordable. I know wit the inverted-T setups using TRE experience a dead spot and a claimed fix is to use those poly spacers. I would like to hear some personal experience from those who have run this and used the poly spacers. Do the poly spacers wear out? Do they actually work? How have you liked the performance and feel so far? Did the steering worsen over what the stock stuff felt like?
 
Poly spacers wear out.
They don't work that well.
The TRE type inverted T steering has wandering / dead space in the steering.
It isn't that great from what I've heard.
Maybe a captured heim for the drag link would fix this. Don't know.
Thoughts?
 
Also: Ruffstuff sells that kit, with a little more work involved, for $40 less. Up to you.
 
yossarian19 said:
They don't work that well.

It isn't that great from what I've heard.
Click to expand...

Gotta love that baseless speculation. :doh:

First off I would never pay that much for an UTK kit. I have the same kit from JCR but it flips the TRE's over the knuckle and raises the track bar above the axle as well raising the whole steering at least 4" up out of the way of rocks and stumps. Once you get the alignment correct, (caster and toe) this system works flawlessly I haven't had to touch mine in several years now. Also if you ream out the knuckles so the TRE's don't have too much space between them and the knuckles (approx 1/2") it reduces the dead spot effect, in fact I don't have any dead spot on mine at all. I don't use any spacers on mine at all, just a dust boot.
 
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robsjeepxj said:
Gotta love that baseless speculation. :doh:

First off I would never pay that much for an UTK kit. I have the same kit from JCR but it flips the TRE's over the knuckle and raises the track bar above the axle as well raising the whole steering at least 4" up out of the way of rocks and stumps. Once you get the alignment correct, (caster and toe) this system works flawlessly I haven't had to touch mine in several years now. Also if you ream out the knuckles so the TRE's don't have too much space between them and the knuckles (approx 1/2") it reduces the dead spot effect, in fact I don't have any dead spot on mine at all. I don't use any spacers on mine at all, just a dust boot.
Click to expand...

That's the first time I've heard such a positive review of inverted T with chevy steering. At risk of being petty - it isn't "baseless" when you've been reading the same comments for a few years running.
 
For the record I did search and when I typed in "inverted t" I didn't find anything useful. I always search first ask second.

I just checked JCR's website and they are more expensive. Not by much but being on such a tight budget these days I try to save as much as I can where I can. I would like to go for an OTK kit but that requires moving the sway bar mounts on the axle which I do not have the means to do.

I just wanted to get personal experience by those actually running this kind of setup to see if the rumors are true about dead spot, etc.

robsjeepxj so to make sure I understand you correctly you are saying to ream out the knuckle until the space between the TRE and the knuckle is 1/2"?
 
Yes about a 1/2". there shouldn't be any of the TRE taper showing with the boot or spacers on there. I don't use swaybars on my jeep anymore, I relocated them and broke one of the mounts so I just took it off thinking I'll fix it later but never did. I drives fine you just have to go around sharp turns a little slower which isn't a bad thing on lifted jeep. I have taken turns faster than I probably should have at times and it hasn't killed me yet, it just has more body roll that's all. Try to not to get sucked into all the hype about no swaybars and the end of civilization as we know it. I wheel mine a lot so it's nice not to have to get all muddy trying to reattach them after a day of wheeling too. I wouldn't let $50 worth of welding keep you from doing it right though, in the long run it will be worth it.
 
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robsjeepxj said:
Yes about a 1/2". there shouldn't be any of the TRE taper showing with the boot or spacers on there. I don't use swaybars on my jeep anymore, I relocated them and broke one of the mounts so I just took it off thinking I'll fix it later but never did. I drives fine you just have to go around sharp turns a little slower which isn't a bad thing on lifted jeep. I have taken turns faster than I probably should have at times and it hasn't killed me yet, it just has more body roll that's all. Try to not to get sucked into all the hype about no swaybars and the end of civilization as we know it. I wheel mine a lot so it's nice not to have to get all muddy trying to reattach them after a day of wheeling too. I wouldn't let $50 worth of welding keep you from doing it right though, in the long run it will be worth it.
Click to expand...

Excellent to hear some actual real world personal experience instead of speculation.

My Jeep unfortunately sees about 95% pavement time and I drive it like a sports car so for the safety of myself and the safety of others I am gonna keep mine in haha. If I wheeled it more and had something else to drive daily then I probably would just leave it off since I have driven around with it disconnected before and it honestly wasn't that bad I could just tell the body rolled a little more.
 
I DD mine all over the east coast too so it not just a trail rig at all. You can make the extended swaybar mounts work you just need to gusset them properly. I had a friend do mine and they did last so I just took it off. I'm sure if you tried a little harder than I did you'd be fine. :)
 
If you don't really wheel it at all why not just get a HD tie rod and leave everything else stock? Lots of people I know run this setup on their jeeps and it works fine, just replace any worn parts you have and be done with it. The 1 ton kit is more for rockcrawling anyway, if you don't need it save your money for other stuff.
 
I ran the UTK from JCR for about 2 years. I just took it off and replaced it with the Currie steering. Even with poly spacers I had a pretty bad dead spot. I could turn the steering wheel about 45-50 degrees and not move the vehicle.

I would consider running it 1-ton steering OTK but I would never do UTK again.
 
It has been my experience that utk inverted t has more tendency to have tie rod roll simply because it's farther from the pitman arm. When the pitman arm moves it pushes down or pulls up instead of side to side on the tie rod. That four inches moving the same inverted t from utk to otk made all the difference in the world. I had quite a bit of a dead spot in my steering before i move otk. I have no dead spots in my system at all now. I'm only lifted 4" so I would assume lift height will also play a big part in peoples experience because more lift equals more separation of tie rod to pitman arm
 
I don't like the inverted-y design and I want to get away from it. It is a personal preference for all of you that think it is fine. Pretty much all of my steering is worn out so that is my reasoning for buying a whole system rather than just replace the stock stuff and get a new tie rod since that would be replacing everything anyways.

I really had my eye on the on the ORO U-Turn system but it is very pricey so not an option and many other systems require some sort of welding or modification beyond my capabilities right now and budget to get performed by someone.
 
So I'll put it to you straight from my experience. You will experience tie-rod role which creates a dead spot/slop in your steering with an utk invirted t system at 3.5 inches of lift. Even if you ream the knuckles and get the tierods in close they will still rotate. It's to steep an angle for the drag link. The only way to do it right in your case is to go otk with it. Spend the time. Save you Starbucks money for a week or two and do it right. You will be glad you did in the end. Your TRES will thank you as well.
 
It looks like the steeper the drag link, the worse the TRE roll is. Conversely, a shallow drag link angle (achieved through lower lift, dropped pitman arm, high steer, or going OTK) will result in less roll and more sensitive steering, yes?

I ask because I'm on 3" of lift and want as close to zero dead spot as possible. Weighing the merit of the chevy inverted T vs the ZJ tie rod & drag link.
 
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