89 Dana 35 drum brakes help?

Hello All,

I am seeking some assistance with my rear brakes. I recently installed new drums, shoes, hardware and cylinders. I measured the new drums against the old ones and they seemed to be the correct size. My problem is, in order to get the drums on, I have to have the star-adjuster really loose. Like, rattle around loose. I adjust it in, slide the drums on, and tighten the star until the shoes basically drag. Tighter than it should be, the adjuster lever, shoe spring, and adjuster cable eventually fall out of place and come disconnected. Naturally, this makes a nasty noise and I have to take the drum off to fix it. I have tried everything from the parking brake being so loose that it does not work, to so tight that I cannot drive the Jeep. I am starting to think I was sold the wrong brake shoes. Just so we are all clear on the parts I referred to, I typed them exactly as shown in the diagram on this fine page: http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Suspension_Steering_Axles_and_Brakes/Drum_Brake_Service.htm

Any thoughts on what I should try? When the parking brake was too loose, I was able to drive it for a while with no problems, but the adjuster lever eventually fell out of place. I appreciate any assistance. I will say there is the possibility that I am a bonehead, but I don't think I have anything wrong with the install. And, before anyone asks, yes the shoes are on correctly.

Edit:1989 XJ Ltd, 4.0, AW4, NP242

I have to ask. Do you understand the difference between leading and trailing shoes and their different shapes. The problem is that if they are installed correctly and everything in its place, the brakes will work. To that end it makes sense to assume that something is not installed right.

Not trying to be an ass, but millions of vehicles used that same setup without problems. It is easy to get it together and think it is correct, trust me, I have done it more than once in the last 40 years of doing brakes.

Yes, I do. I don't have it taken apart and I can't find my photos, but I am fairly certain I have them in the proper locations. I should say, I could be wrong. It has been known to happen a time or two in the past. I will take it apart tomorrow and check again. Thank you for your reply.

The only way I can think of for the star adjust to be rattle around loose, is if the bottom shoe spring is missing or maybe hooked in the wrong holes on the shoes.
That's why I do one side at a time, as many times as I changed those things and I still walk over to the other side, look and see for sure I'm doing it right.
It's pretty easy to get the cable guide to pop a little out of the hole when you install one of the top springs and for the cable to run under it instead of in the guide slot.
Did your new shoes come with the adjuster lever pin? Or did you have to swap the pin over from the old shoes?

Just off the top of my head how are you supporting the Jeep? By the axle with stands or by the unibody? If your axle is hanging down and your supporting it by the unibody, especially if you have a lift and it drops out more. Then the parking brake cables could be pulling a little and when you set the Jeep back down with the wheels on it could be letting the shoes get closer together making them loose again.

I know on my Jeep you can't get the drums off if the axle isn't supported and its at full droop.

Just food for thought.

8Mud, I am not exactly sure what adjuster lever pin you are talking about. The new shoes were bare and I installed a new hardware kit. There were a few things that got re-used from the old stuff, but not much.

Alex E, I never thought of that. I did not have the axle supported at all when I was messing with this. Maybe I should! I had jack stands under the frame rails and the axle was at full droop.

It will be a few days until I can work on it again. I took all of my tools to my dad's to work on another project.

Thank you all for the replies.

OK, guys. Since Old Man has me thinking about it again, can someone clarify the Leading vs. Trailing shoe thing for me? I thought I knew and I think they are on correctly, but as I look at different websites, I am receiving varying information about the subject. Some sites are saying the larger of the shoes is the trailing and others say that is the leading. I am the first to admit I have not done a ton of drum brakes, but I have done them in the past. Never with this much hassle, weather caused by myself or improper parts. I am pretty sure I looked it up on the net when I did it as it had been years since the last one. My shoes were completely worn out, so there was nothing left to compare the new ones to. Without it being apart and not being able to find my photos, I cannot say for certain anymore. Disregard the last line of my first post until further inspection/information. :looser: <--me

Pretty sure the leading one is smaller and the trailing is bigger. I should know this because I'm and ASE certified tech but I work at a Euro shop and they don't have drums! lol Now you got me wondering and thinking

That is what the majority of the sites I have found seem to be saying. Now, to figure out which one I relied on at the time! Honestly, after all of the dinking around I have done with it, I hope it is that easy. If not, I am going to buy another new set of pads and hope China screwed me on chitty parts.

Another thing to check...probably not related BUT I always like to make sure the shoes sit flat on a table or smooth work bench. You should be able to lay the shoe down like how it sits on the backing plate. Push down on one side and not rock the other. You want them to be true and flat. Also look and see on the 3 or 4 contact points on the backing plate that it isn't heavily grooved and makes the shoes hang up. Apply some hi temp grease on those points too, but just do it very sparingly so it doesn't contaminate the friction surface.

cherokee89 said:

8Mud, I am not exactly sure what adjuster lever pin you are talking about. The new shoes were bare and I installed a new hardware kit. There were a few things that got re-used from the old stuff, but not much.

Alex E, I never thought of that. I did not have the axle supported at all when I was messing with this. Maybe I should! I had jack stands under the frame rails and the axle was at full droop.

It will be a few days until I can work on it again. I took all of my tools to my dad's to work on another project.

Thank you all for the replies.

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I was talking about the pin the adjuster lever for the star wheel fits on. Some new shoes come with the pin already installed (pressed in the hole) some come blank and you have to pop the pin out of the old shoes and press it into the "proper" hole on your new shoes.
I'm having a little trouble picturing the Renix drums to tell you the truth, I just did a set on a 96 and they are a little different.
I'm trying to figure out how the star wheel gets "rattle around loose", the springs should keep the whole assembly under tension no matter how it is adjusted. I'm scratching my head here.

8Mud said:

I was talking about the pin the adjuster lever for the star wheel fits on. Some new shoes come with the pin already installed (pressed in the hole) some come blank and you have to pop the pin out of the old shoes and press it into the "proper" hole on your new shoes.
I'm having a little trouble picturing the Renix drums to tell you the truth, I just did a set on a 96 and they are a little different.

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Ah. This one has a hole where a U-shaped part of the adjuster lever sits. It actually goes through the rib of the trailing shoe. When everything is right, the spring from the other shoe holds it in place through tension.

cherokee89 said:

Ah. This one has a hole where a U-shaped part of the adjuster lever sits. It actually goes through the rib of the trailing shoe. When everything is right, the spring from the other shoe holds it in place through tension.

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My bad, I guess I was picturing the 9 inch brakes instead of the 10 inch.

I finally got a chance to take the wheel and drum off to inspect. The leading and trailing shoes are in the correct order. The smaller one is the leading. I was really hoping I had messed it up somehow. I know they lay flat when laid upon their side. Only working on one side at a time right now so the axle is no longer at full-droop. Doesn't seem to be the source of my problems. Not sure what to do from here. May just buy another set of shoes and see if I simply was shipped the wrong or a defective part. Thank you all for your assistance and insight.

Take a look at this post
Adjuster info on drum brake reassembly
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1047068

Special notice to ehall post
“Loose cable is usually from the wire falling behind the curved elbow piece”.
Or
Shorty post
“Make sure the cable went on the top stud first and that it is completely over the large shoulder in the back. I've seen a ton of brakes reinstalled with the eyelet over the stud, but not the shoulder and the cable will be about 1/4" too long”.

I do have it set up that way. Wondering if I have the wrong cable, adjuster, spring or possibly drum. The shoes I have are Wagner Thermo Quiet PAB267R, and everything I can find says they are correct. I may have the old hardware under a pile of junk. Will have to dig for it tonight when i get a chance. It is possible my cable is simply too damn long. Thank you.

When I replaced the durms on my 88, I went thru 3 sets of drums/shoes from different places. I ended up having to get the drums turned about 30 thou to get things together and not have them loose like you mention.

TRCM said:

When I replaced the durms on my 88, I went thru 3 sets of drums/shoes from different places. I ended up having to get the drums turned about 30 thou to get things together and not have them loose like you mention.

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That thought crossed my mind this morning. I don't have a caliper large enough to accurately measure the new drums. They are made by Parts Master and I can't even find them on-line. Goddamn Chinese crap.

So, I just dropped my drums off at the machine shop. They measured them and they are measuring under 10 inches. I told them to turn them as far out as they can. I will post up with the results when I get them back on tomorrow. Thinking this has been my issue all along. Never buy shit from the Parts Master brand!! Thank you all again for the assistance and brain storming.