I need tool advice for very, very rusty daily driver 98 XJ

INTRO: I haven't posted to this forum yet because I've been able to find the majority of my answers through searching. THANKS to everyone! I've wrenched before on Hondas, (only broke one bolt ever on that 12 year old car) but have never dealt with so many rusty parts before. This is my first Jeep and first American car. I bought it because I needed a reliable daily driver under $3000 while I'm in college.

Vehicle: 98 Cherokee Sport 4 Door - Moss Green
Engine: 4.0L
Trans: AW4 auto - 4wd with NP231
currently 173,000 miles, I've owned it since 158,000 mile mark (one owner previously)

PROBLEM: Currently I have a worn out transmission mount. Like the rest of this Jeep it is RUSTY! I was attempting to loosen all 4 transmission crossmember bolts/nuts and broke the first bolt barely turning it - I attempted to tighten-loosen-tighten-loosen, but it broke anyway under little torque. I'll be doing the shocks and rear springs in the spring time and am expecting to break some bolts and run into more rust related issues.

I have no garage. I store all my tools inside one of our indoor 13'x3.5' closets and haul everything outside when needed.

NEEDS: inexpensive but good tools
-tap and die set
-a good drill (currently have crap and decker)
-good metal drill bits(currently have crap and decker)
-and if I still have money, a cheap welder that'll get the job done

1) So what do you guys use?
2) Am I better off getting metric or SAE die/taps?
3) What standard sizes or range of sizes will I most commonly use?

Penetrating oil applied days or even weeks ahead of any work really helps. Using heat to loosen fasteners or break loose rust is a good idea. Replacing failed weld nuts or rivet nuts is faster and stronger than trying to drill and tap broken bolts or stripped weld nuts.

I have only one 1/2-13 tap and no dies in my home tool box and I work in a Machine Shop. Replace any failed weld nuts/rivet nuts. The only weld nut you can successfully re-tap are the cross member weld nuts. They are metric and the next bigger size bolt is 1/2-13 IIRC.

There are numerous threads here and on other Cherokee forums on common fastener failures and how to avoid, work around, or repair them.

A quality drill and industrial quality drill bits is the only way to go. I have a 3/8 drill for light duty work and a 1/2" for heavy duty work. They are both the more expensive models from SEARS. Any of the big De-Walt drills would be good also. Quality drill bits cut faster, last longer, and make correct sized holes. Cheap drill bits just wreck stuff.

Cheap welders are cheap for a reason and they just don't work. Look on CraigsList and you will find lots of them. Spend the money and get a quality welder that will be able to perform adequately. Look at the Hobart Handler 140 (or larger) and the Miller 140 (or larger) at the minimum. If you have access to 220 volts don't even bother with a 120 volt welder.

Just to give the level of rust here...

I live in OH. Jeep came from Northern OH near the great lakes, Cleveland area - they get lots of snow. Jeep towed a boat for much of its life. I mean... it's bad.

Owner rust-proofed the body so that's in pretty good shape, but underneath is a nightmare to work on.

Get a blow torch.
Any time you are going to work on suspension, soak everything down with PBlaster a few times over the week leading up to work day.
Right before you try to turn a wrench, hit the "female" side of what you are working on (the nut, weld nut or whatever) with the torch for a while to heat it up. This will help things turn instead of break.

As for taps & dies, go Craftsman. I work with a guy who has lots of Snap On & Mac tools... here and there, the extra money is worth it. For 90 percent of tool purchases, Craftsman is the way to go.

Drill... Depending on your situation, go DeWalt corded (hella reliable & powerful) or a cordless that uses a lithium ion battery pack. I had a Craftsman 19.2V cordless and blew it up while working on my jeep. I think you could do the same to any cordless, regardless of the battery chemistry, but you may as well enjoy the lighter weight & longer battery life while you can!

As for welder.... Hell, I don't know. Harbor Freight probably has something for you. XJs dont' have a lot of thick metal requiring heavy amperage...

Just use a a good old fashion Hot Wrench or better known as a torch

X2 the cutting torch. Will save you many hours on Ohio cars.

I know first hand about the rust issues. If storage space is an issue, forget about the cutting torches. Buy a mapp gas torch with trigger ignitor from Home Depot, a Dremel with cut-off discs and a small right angle grinder with cut-off wheels. Also plenty of PB Blaster. Always clean up any fasteners and use anti-seize.

Another vote for PB Blaster--that is one tool you are absolutely going to need.

I would start hosing down EVERYTHING--you may not need to work on it now, but you will eventually.

After awhile, when you can get some of those "extra" bolts loose, consider replacing them with SS hardware and a liberal application of anti-seize. Even if you don't replace the hardware, use anti-seize. I often cut anti-seize with ATF. It thins it a bit so it brushes on easier. Not much ATF, just a little bit at a time and stir to see how the thinning is going.

Read this thread tbburg he has a nice write up with photos on removing rusty leaf spring bolts: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1047750

I've been busy with school and work and really only have free time on the weekends. Thanks to everyone for the advice while I've been away. I am slowly restoring my confidence in working on this Jeep. I have experience using oxy-acetylene welders (brazing, cutting torch) as I took metal sculpture for a few quarters in high school so I may look into buying a smaller oxy-acetylene unit but am on a very tight budget as a student. I'll have to look into this.

FYI, for anyone else with these issues I found this excellent link on bolt removal: "The Art of Extraction"
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/may2003/techtotech.htm

The thread posted below was also very helpful:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1047750

So here is what I'm gathering from everything I'm reading:

BOLT REMOVAL - DO IT RIGHT BEFORE YOU BREAK IT
1) Use PB blaster daily and let it sit for at least a week before attempting work on anything.

2) Use a torch to heat up the female side. This does two things:
---Expands the opening to give clearance for the bolt you're trying to remove.
---Helps to break the rust bond.

3) If necessary, it may be helpful to drill a tiny hole to allow PB Blaster to penetrate down into the bolt sleeve (this obviously depends on your application). Make sure to seal the hole with silicon, jb weld, etc when complete to prevent future corrosion.

BOLT REMOVAL - FOR BROKEN BOLTS THAT DIDN'T COOPERATE
There are a couple options depending on the situation:
1) Drill out the bolt & retap to same or larger size.

2) Drill out the bolt & break off weldnut. Replace weldnut.

3) Drill out the inside of the bolt & attempt to use an extractor. People seem to have the least luck and most trouble with this method.

4) Use a cutting torch.

TIPS FOR DRILLING:
Whenever drilling a few methods are key:
---Begin by working on a flat surface. If the bolt did not break cleanly, grind it down using an aggressive flapwheel or grinding wheel if possible.
---A torch can be used to soften the metal (but if you do it wrong it can harden the metal too!) Read "The Art of Extraction" article above for details.
---Use a good center punch. When drilling out a bolt you want the whole thing to be centered!
---Use good, sharp, name-branded drill bits. I may need to buy a drill doctor and some good bits soon.
---Begin with smaller sizes when drilling and work your way up. This may take longer, but you are less likely to make a big mistake.
---Use Pb Blaster or WD40 as a cooling agent while drilling. This will help make your good drill bits last.

Let me know your thoughts or if you have additional tips. I can't thank you all enough! What a great group of guys on here!

yossarian19 said:

Get a blow torch.
Any time you are going to work on suspension, soak everything down with PBlaster a few times over the week leading up to work day.
Right before you try to turn a wrench, hit the "female" side of what you are working on (the nut, weld nut or whatever) with the torch for a while to heat it up. This will help things turn instead of break.

Click to expand...

I didn't post any questions in my last post, but I do have have one. How does this apply when working on a transmission cross-member?

1) Can I just torch the crossmember all around the bolt from below the car?

2) Or should I try removing the seats, peal back the carpet, and create an access hole if necessary?


Also, should this be enough of a welder to get me started ($60 Home Depot)? Budget is a serious concern, and I have some experience brazing, cutting, etc.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

AGAIN, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

I know your pain with the rust issues - my 96 had a hole big enough to fit a basketball through in the floor over the exhaust behind the rear tires, and holes you could fit a football through in both front footwells... I feel the carpet push up under my feet if I go through a deep puddle or drive over a curved tree branch.

However, I have never had problems removing bolts (aside from the damned rear upper shock bolts) and I chalk this up to the fact that my jeeps leak oil like it is their job. My 91 leaks a lot of oil from the rear main seal (will be fixing in the near future when I pull the engine for a tranny swap) and so the crossmember was saturated with oil for at least 8 months before I removed it for the first time. My 96 blew a transfer case rear output seal and some transmission cooler lines and sprayed ATF all over the place. Both of them, I had 0 problems removing the crossmember bolts - just loosened them and they came right off.

Try soaking the bolts in 50/50 ATF and acetone mix. Keep them wet for a few hours, then heat with a torch (make sure you angle it so that the flame doesn't set anything alight...) and reapply as soon as they start cooling. Heat them back up again and try the loosen/tighten method, perhaps after quenching with pbblaster. They should come right out.

If they don't, you can lift the carpet and bore an access hole through the floorboard above the weldnut, then just bore straight through with a 3/8" drill (the bolts are M10, but 3/8" grade 8 is more widely available than M10 ISO PC10.9) and use regular grade 8 nuts and bolts.

Oh, and before you do anything else, hose the broken ones down with your favorite rust penetrant and then attack them with appropriately sized left-handed drill bits. You can find them in the tool aisle of autozone. There's a good chance that the vibration and heat from drilling combined with the fact that you're drilling in the direction that would loosen them will get them moving, at which point you can grab what's left with a good pair of vise grips and remove, then chase the threads with the appropriate tap and simply buy a new bolt.

I ended up buying this starter kit:

Kastein, I appreciate the thorough response. Once the weather gets a little warmer with no snow on the ground I'll give this a second go. I'll definately be referencing your response.

If anyone else has had experience with this, I'm sure it'll help me and others.

Jonner said:

1) Can I just torch the crossmember all around the bolt from below the car?

2) Or should I try removing the seats, peal back the carpet, and create an access hole if necessary?

Click to expand...

1) Only if you cut a hole in the frame rail.

2) There are already holes in the floor that can acees the frame rail interior, but you often break the seat mounting bolts when trying to remove the seats.

As far as the welding goes try to get your hands on the Handler 140, yes there are other cheaper "flux cored" welders out there but in my experience you can get a lot more control and less blow through with a gas shielded wire welder than one running flux cored one. On thin metals like on the unibody of a XJ it is very important, because its easy to burn a hole in thin sheetmetal. The 140 can also run flux cored wire so if your in a windy situation and feel like doing a bunch of spatter cleaning you can have at it.

RamlebXJ said:

As far as the welding goes try to get your hands on the Handler 140, yes there are other cheaper "flux cored" welders out there but in my experience you can get a lot more control and less blow through with a gas shielded wire welder than one running flux cored one. On thin metals like on the unibody of a XJ it is very important, because its easy to burn a hole in thin sheetmetal. The 140 can also run flux cored wire so if your in a windy situation and feel like doing a bunch of spatter cleaning you can have at it.

Click to expand...

I wish I could...$500+ is too much for me right now.

Is the $70 torch above going to be enough for minor welds? I think the only thing I'd probably be using it for is welding on weldnuts, some possible light cutting, and heating nuts to use has a hot wrench. I know I'd probably be going through cans of gas pretty regularly (cut time on this is only 20 minutes worth of gas).

In the future I'd love to get a wire feed which would really open some fabrication doors but my Jeep budget right now is about $75-$100 per month. This would take me 6 months to save for and I have repairs that need attention now.

That oxy/mapp torch is nice, but I doubt you'll be able to weld much with it. Pretty sure I have that one.

kastein said:

That oxy/mapp torch is nice, but I doubt you'll be able to weld much with it. Pretty sure I have that one.

Click to expand...

I can still return this. I don't want to spend $70 and not be able to use this thing for much.

I guess my goal here is to have the minimum buy-in to be able to weld. I can spare the $20 for a torch if I need one and don't buy one at this time.

Obviously TIG/MIG will be better, but oxy/acetylene seems to be cheaper?