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Two (2) issues that seem to have anecdotal responses.

ArmyDad

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Elk Grove, CA
I've been lurking around off-road forums for the last few years and have seen a HUGE number of newby, noob, new guy type posts. Personally, I like to research A LOT before posting so there is at least a minimum of understanding before asking a question. There is so much available wisdom and experience it is rare for me to post a question. My thought is if you don't understand the question, you don't tend to understand the answer, right? So here are my questions ...

1 - As soon as the topic of wheel spacers come up there are typically a few "you'll wear out your bearings" responses or someone knew someone who knew someone that had a bolt break, spacer crack, etc. No doubt this is true but we all know someone who snapped off a bolt, broke an axle, bent a wheel, blew out a u-joint ... and these, often times, have been quality products.

From where I sit, a wheel with less back spacing will place that wheel's centerline further out from the wheel bearing same as a wheel spacer. So, what is the difference between a quality built wheel with less backspacing and a properly manufactured wheel spacer?

2 - Same argument typically tends to follow lifting blocks for leaf springs. "You'll wear out your springs faster." Why? If the contact area of the spacer is the same as the axle perch and spring pad then why would the spring wear out faster?

Not trying to start a s**t storm, just trying to understand. THANKS!!
 
The reason a lift block will wear the springs out faster is not because of the contact area, but the added height and torque that is placed on the spring.

When accelerating, the axle naturally wants to torque and wrap the springs. This is because the spring holds the axle, and the force being applied through the axle is at a distance from the mounting location. From physics, torque = force x distance.

If we add a spacer in there, the distance has now increased, creating a higher torque on the springs. This translate to more stress and more wrap, which accelerate wear and on springs. Its equivalent to using a breaker bar for more leverage to get a stuck bolt undone.

I agree with you on the wheel spacers, I don't believe it will make a difference. I have googled that question in the past, and found some websites trying to explain it, but I don't remember where they were.
 
As far as lift blocks, you are essentially adding a lever for the housing to tweak the springs harder, like a cheater bar on a ratchet.
 
the explanation above for the lift blocks also applies to the wheel spacer argument, theoretically, any ways. in real world applications i don't think that the little movement away from the fulcrum of the pivot would effect the bearings much, i believe it's due to the larger tires more than anything.
 
All of the above makes perfect sense. Should have thought about it like that.

Now we just need to get an army of Jeepers to put spacers on with stock tire size to test that. ;)
 
Wildcat Rider: I've read many posts from folks using spacers AND wheels with reduced backspacing who've had no trouble, which was the starting point of item #1 of my post. I see now that it is about (1) not going TOO wide, (2) get quality components and (3) regular maintenance.

The issue of axle wrap is one I'm ashamed to say, just got overlooked. It's not like I hadn't seen or read it before just the puzzle pieces did not get put together in my own mind.

THANKS for the information! On with the modifications with a LOT more knowledge!
 
ArmyDad thanks for doing the searching. I too am like you in that I tend to research more than just throw up a thread with a half conjured idea of what I really want. Cheers
 
Wheel spacers are nothing more than a band-aid for the problem of having the wrong wheel backspacing for the application at hand. The proper, correct, and strongest thing to do is to get the correct wheels for that application. The easier, cheaper, and weaker thing to do is wheel spacers.

The strongest way to mount the wheel to the axle is to bolt the wheel directly to the axle.

When you put a spacer in between the wheel and the axle mounting flange, you now have multiplied the leverage forces on the wheel flange and lug studs by having the wheel mounted further away from the flange, not to mention that almost all spacers are made of aluminum and flex because of the increased leverage and will eventually crack and/or break. It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when" the spacers will break. They are the major weak link in the "chain".

And I agree about the added strain on the leaf springs from using blocks, Just DON'T USE THEM. Also a band-aid. Save your pennies and buy the proper springs.
 
Wheel spacers are nothing more than a band-aid for the problem of having the wrong wheel backspacing for the application at hand. The proper, correct, and strongest thing to do is to get the correct wheels for that application. The easier, cheaper, and weaker thing to do is wheel spacers.

The strongest way to mount the wheel to the axle is to bolt the wheel directly to the axle.

When you put a spacer in between the wheel and the axle mounting flange, you now have multiplied the leverage forces on the wheel flange and lug studs by having the wheel mounted further away from the flange,

I agree. However, the extra leverage on the studs will occur whether you use spacers or rims with less backspacing.

not to mention that almost all spacers are made of aluminum and flex because of the increased leverage and will eventually crack and/or break.

Disagree. Lots of people use them and never break them. Also, lots of people use aluminum rims and never break them.

It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when" the spacers will break. They are the major weak link in the "chain".



And I agree about the added strain on the leaf springs from using blocks, Just DON'T USE THEM. Also a band-aid. Save your pennies and buy the proper springs.

My F350 has had blocks since it came from the factory, and it has very large diameter u bolts to keep it together. If I were ever to want to run soft stock springs with a block, I would certainly beef up the u bolts. I think the blocks aren't to blame as much as the tiny stock Jeep u bolts flexing.
 
My F350 has had blocks since it came from the factory, and it has very large diameter u bolts to keep it together. If I were ever to want to run soft stock springs with a block, I would certainly beef up the u bolts. I think the blocks aren't to blame as much as the tiny stock Jeep u bolts flexing.

Not really fair to compare a 1 ton truck with stiff leafs, that were designed to use a lift block, with say a 1/4 ton jeep, with soft leaves.
 
Not really fair to compare a 1 ton truck with stiff leafs, that were designed to use a lift block, with say a 1/4 ton jeep, with soft leaves.

I agree that simply adding blocks to an otherwise stock setup XJ probably isn't the best idea! But blocks are not necessarily evil, and could be a fine part of a rear suspension. For example, 8 or 10 years ago I had a toyota with a 4.3 v6, 4l60e, double toyota cases, and had 63 inch chevy springs. I needed a little bit more lift since the chevies are not arched much, and added a 2 inch block, along with fat ubolts, and welded on some extended perches. No problems with the setup with lots of hard use.
 
And again, you're comparing apples to oranges. 63" Chevy springs are much stiffer and heavier than Jeep springs. I'm pretty sure that people have run blocks on XJs have run some pretty large ubolts, it's a common upgrade.
 
When you put a spacer in between the wheel and the axle mounting flange, you now have multiplied the leverage forces on the wheel flange and lug studs by having the wheel mounted further away from the flange,

Compared to a stock offset wheel, this is true. Compared to a high offset wheel instead of a spacer, no. The "leverage" would be identical.

Yes spacers are aluminum. But they're very thick. Thicker than aluminum wheels. Mine have created no problems in several years. The idea that they're time-bombs waiting to go off just isn't true. But anything can break, and they are going to be harder on hubs, studs and bearings just like high offset wheels will be.

One problem unique to spacers is there's an inner set of studs and nuts which you can't keep track of without removing the wheel to check. Obviously if they work loose you've got problems. And if anyone else works on your car, do you trust them to torque or loctite them properly? I always redo that step personally.

Yes, you can make the case that the best way to do it is to buy or build custom offset wheels. And as Jeepers, we ALWAYS do things the best most expensive way, don't we?:laugh:
 
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Compared to a stock offset wheel, this is true. Compared to a high offset wheel instead of a spacer, no. The "leverage" would be identical.

not quite, the spacer setup has extra bolt's, and an extra bolt on connection... im sure theres some flex in there. you just potentially doubled that.

but does that make a wheel spacer a ticking time bomb? XXXX no. but it's also not 'identical', theres an extra peice of metal in there.

ive ran spacers, and i'd do it again. but i prefer NOT TO, just because it shows that i was too cheap/lame to do something properly. why have 10 lugs/nuts on one 5 lug wheel? i dont see how you could think this is the proper way to do things, but it'll work.


one word says it all; bandaid
 
are you guys serious about the leaf block thing?, this has been discussed a million times, YES, theres a time and a place for blocks, and theyve been used properly on xj's. but NOT to simply give lift on a stock pack of an otherwise stock rear suspension, that WILL run like crap and cause problems.

this is NOT a fullsize truck, this is not a toyota running chevy 63's, this is a cherokee, dont be lame.
 
xcm: The picture added by Tim_MN just puts an exclamation point on the argument about proper maintenance and inspection should one choose to use leaf spring lift blocks in some applications. As I don't like doing a job more than once, I've found options for the leaf spring lift I want that does not include blocks.

As far as calling saying some of us use wheel adapters because it "shows that i was too cheap/lame to do something properly" is not totally accurate. I opted to use the adapters because I like the look of the aluminum wheels Jeep put on my Cherokee ... and I made sure and got good adapters which cost almost as much as replacement steel wheels. Trust me, I looked and debated a LOT before spending my hard-earned $$$.

Cheers, my friend!
 
My F350 has had blocks since it came from the factory, and it has very large diameter u bolts to keep it together. If I were ever to want to run soft stock springs with a block, I would certainly beef up the u bolts. I think the blocks aren't to blame as much as the tiny stock Jeep u bolts flexing.


Did you really compare a F350 to a cherokee......:banghead:

Blocks are just a bad idea for smaller softer springs, they cant handle it.
On a pickup is a entirely different story, i have 5" blocks on my F250 and wouldn't have second thoughts about it for a second.
 
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