Groan when braking, etc

Wasn't sure where to put this

91 4.0 aw4 short arm 4.5" w/32s

I'm getting a deep groan when I brake. It only happens at low speed (slowing for speed bumps ~10-15mph) and its definitely coming from the front somewhere; sounds more towards the driver side.

While going over the speed bump, I get an annoying pop-pop, one when I intially hit the speedbump,then the other when I go over the other side. Feels like drivers side only.

Having some death wobble issues also, only when I hit a bump with my drivers side tire while turning left. Doesn't do it any other time.

Have visually inspected numerous times while someone turning the wheel, replaced track bar with RE1600 due to play in frame TRE. No change.

The reason I put all three together is that they are probably related, since they all seem to be on the same side. I hate the groan, pop, and wobble. It's been a PITA trying to track the culprit(s) down and need your help!


Any ideas?

Check the unit bearing for play, check the caliper guide pins to make sure they slide easily, check the steel bushings in the center of the lower control arm bushings to make sure they haven't crushed. Those bushings are usually made with a seam and they can crush when you tighten down resulting in the control arms always being loose. You can replace the steel bushings with some beefier seemless ones and they will stay tight.

I'm fairly certain the groan is not brake-parts related, it just doesn't sound like brake noise. The guide pins are lubed up and fine btw, the entire brake system is new. All hardlines, rubber lines, calipers, etc.

As for the unit bearing, I have jacked up the driver's side tire and did the 6 and 9 deal.

There is movement, but it moves the tie rod with it, pushing the passenger side back and forth also (duh)... I'm talking I put light force from side to side and it moves significantly, but how do I know if its just normal? I would assume if the unit bearing was shot it wouldn't move the knuckle with it?

X2 on the control arms, i noticed the frame bushing on the drivers side the other day all the way to one side, and now its centered again, could be the cause of the DW and pop?

Sounds very similar to what my '00 is doing. Nearly new brakes on mine too. Napa Safety Stop ceramic pads and new Napa Premium rotors. Groaning/grinding under low speed braking and I can feel a very faint grinding trough the brake pedal when turning to the left. Did you by any chance use the same?

About a week after I put the new brakes on, they started squeaking like crazy (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1044627). That has since subsided, but now I've got the groaning/grinding. I can't help but think it's all related to the brakes, but I haven't gotten a chance to do any investigating yet.

I also thought the faint grinding when turning might be a u-joint going bad, but I haven't looked into that either.

Thanks for the replies

My brakes aren't that new; bought loaded calipers and rotors from NAPA about two years ago. Just redid all brake hardlines and rubber (yj) when I put the lift on last December because they were rusted shut on all ends. Had stock wheels up until August when I got my 32 BFG's. Have never had any problems with the brakes.

The groaning started after I put my tires on and post-death wobble experiences, also when I put the tires on. Never had death wobble or groaning with the stockies on it.

I'm guessing the heavier tires put a strain on something, considering it is a 20 year old steering setup.

I also just replaced all balljoints in September because they were shot and was hoping to cure the DW but no dice (did luck out on all four Spicer's for $50 from alljeep)

Both axle u-joints are new as of the summer.

I'm honestly beginning to suspect the driver's wheel bearing, but can't tell (see my above post)

Any further insight will be greatly appreciated!

Lift the front wheels off the ground and grab the tire at the top and bottom and see if there is any movement. There should not be. Unit bearings tend to fail rather rapidly once they have movement. The loose control arm can definitely cause wobble and popping issues. Any chance the groan is coming from the rear end? Or maybe the passenger seat

jeeperjohn said:

Lift the front wheels off the ground and grab the tire at the top and bottom...

Click to expand...

Really? I thought top and bottom movement was a test for balljoints and side to side was the test for wheel bearings?

Any way, I did top and bottom on a couple of occasions and there was no movement at all.

As I posted before, when testing with my hands at 6 and 9, it was very easy to move it side to side, but I don't see how the test can be that accurate if the knuckle moves the tie rod, thus moving the other wheel also (duh x2).

jeeperjohn said:

The loose control arm can definitely cause wobble and popping issues.

Click to expand...

Went out to double check. It is the lower control arm bushing at the axle. A visual inspection of 2 seconds confirmed this; all other bushings look fine. Probably due to the axle being off center for 8 months and the new tires just demolished it. :confused1 It was resting against the side of the mount when I left for a drive, Then it was on the other end of the mount when I got back. Rusty metal and peeling rubber. I would have to agree that this is what's causing DW as well as the pop, or I can only hope for the best.

I plan on going long arms come tax returns since the ride is killing me and this is my DD. Is it worth just replacing that one bushing? I've read that they are a major PITA to press out/in and I don't have access to a vice. Rough Country lowers BTW.

jeeperjohn said:

Any chance the groan is coming from the rear end? Or maybe the passenger seat

Click to expand...

:jester:

Bump


Can't seem to find the bushings for the LCA. Rough Country fixed that come in the 4.5" full lift.

Any other tests for the wheel bearing? I remember driving with the doors off in late September and when at a stop, a quick release then tap of the brakes would yield a tremor in the drivers tire, like a little wobble. It just kinda appeared loose. IDK maybe I'm over-thinking this.

Anyone?

So some good news...

Ordered the lift kit from PORC last December, called them up and they are going to send me a new arm for the failed bushing.

I have to say, wasn't really expecting them to warranty it at all, I just wanted to see where I could get a new one.

Spoke to Jeffrey at Rough Country and Alex the owner of PORC. Both were extremely personable and very helpful, no questions asked.

It's nice to know there are still companies that value customer service and stand behind their products. I rarely experience personable people when I call customer service departments at most larger companies, maybe it's the smaller companies who value their customers more?

Regardless, pretty happy about the result.

Awesome.

bdahlg said:

Bump


Can't seem to find the bushings for the LCA. Rough Country fixed that come in the 4.5" full lift.

Any other tests for the wheel bearing? I remember driving with the doors off in late September and when at a stop, a quick release then tap of the brakes would yield a tremor in the drivers tire, like a little wobble. It just kinda appeared loose. IDK maybe I'm over-thinking this.

Anyone?

Click to expand...

To test the bearing, grab it at 12 and 6 and shake in and out. If there's a clunk, it's bad. To test the BJ's, you need to jack it up and put a long bar under the tire and lift up while inspecting the ball joints for movement. Its' easier to have someone work the bar while you inspect.

Looseness or clunking at 9 and 3 is usually tie rod/steernig box play and sometimes the bearing.

New ball joints, I'm pretty sure there was no movement when I teste dit a couple weeks ago; going to work on her tomorrow to do some maintenance, will check it out then.

How do I knwo what too much play is in the tie rods? They don't appear to be loose when looking at them with someone moving the steering, but then again I don't really know how to tell.

Is steering box play adjustable?

muddeprived said:

To test the bearing, grab it at 12 and 6 and shake in and out. If there's a clunk, it's bad. To test the BJ's, you need to jack it up and put a long bar under the tire and lift up while inspecting the ball joints for movement. Its' easier to have someone work the bar while you inspect.

Looseness or clunking at 9 and 3 is usually tie rod/steernig box play and sometimes the bearing.

Click to expand...

Actually, that method is not used for the ball joints on an XJ. The 12 and 6 method is used.

You use the pry bar (or a GIANT pair of pliers) to test the type of ball joints used on vehicles with struts.

joe_peters said:

Actually, that method is not used for the ball joints on an XJ. The 12 and 6 method is used.

You use the pry bar (or a GIANT pair of pliers) to test the type of ball joints used on vehicles with struts.

Click to expand...

Yeah I've used the bar trick to find bad ball joints that were just starting to go bad on a few jeeps. Sometimes the joints don't show any play by just shaking the tire at 12 and 6 but when you put alot of force on it with the bar then they end up clunking or moving just a bit. If the BJ's are totally toasted then it would be pretty obvious with a 12-6 shake.

My gf's brother's 92 had bad lower BJ's but were undetectable with just the shake. We first stood on the bottom of the tire and pulled the top out, using our entire body weight and noticed a little bit of slack in the joint but when we used my hi-jack handle, the bad joint was obvious.

Yep, 12 and 6 method revealed a shot upper BJ on my driver's side. Ordered a set of Spicers from alljeep.com, took way too long to get here (over 2 weeks), called up alljeep, and they sent me out a free set for the other side. All 4 Spicer BJs for $45. Can't complain about that. Was very happy.

I will investigate steering box slop and TREs tomorrow and will repost.

bdahlg said:

Yep, 12 and 6 method revealed a shot upper BJ on my driver's side. Ordered a set of Spicers from alljeep.com, took way too long to get here (over 2 weeks), called up alljeep, and they sent me out a free set for the other side. All 4 Spicer BJs for $45. Can't complain about that. Was very happy.

I will investigate steering box slop and TREs tomorrow and will repost.

Click to expand...

That's a good deal for four ball joints! :cheers: