crisis of faith...is this '95 about to nickel & dime me?

Hi guys. I have a 1995 Sport 5-spd, all stock except headlights (H4's + harness). My mom got it new, I got it in 2000 at 100k miles, and have driven it since, now at 196k. It has been very reliable- I've just had to replace a few water pumps, a radiator, a starter, oil-filter O-rings, a cat, and a little brake work. That about pushes the extent of my mechanical ability though, & I'm afraid all the little stuff on a car like this is about to cost me more than it's worth.

It normally gets about 20 mpg...and I got up to 24 2-tanks in a row on a road trip last summer. I almost did cash for clunkers, but the engine runs PERFECT (oil every 3k), and I couldn't stand to see it intentionally killed.

All that said, it now needs...

-shocks
-steering damper
-tires
-leaf spring bushings
-Pitman arm boot

Also, the clutch has 196k (!) on it, and the AC needs to be recharged fairly regularly. I'm also concerned about the U-joints, the rest of the ball joints, various sensors, and pretty much all the gaskets. I just found oil leaking from the FRONT of the oil pan (starting to splatter on front suspension parts). Also, today I notice a little coolant on TOP of the coolant pump. Possible head gasket issue?

Anyway, I love the ruggedness, simplicity, and, yes- sentimental value of this XJ. However, it's pretty much just used for snow, skiing, camping, and mountain biking. I'd hate to have to sink thousands into it and still be left with a 16 year old car with questionable road-trip dependability (which is 2/3 of what I use it for).

Thoughts? How long to front ends, AC, gaskets etc. last, and how much to replace? How much is a clutch job? I'm very tempted to sell this, along with my wife's '98 Accord, and get a new Outback or RAV4 for a safer daily driver/ski car.

Also, the truck has been babied (how else do I get that many miles out of a clutch?), and is dent-free with shiny red paint. If anyone in Albuquerque is interested, let me know. I have all records since 100k, including mpg for almost every tank of gas. It has all-new brake system except lines and master cyl, and new axle seals.

OK, so here is how I see it:
A new car is going to be 2-500 a month in payments. After 5 years or so it is paid off and has maybe 100K on the clock. You now begin repairing things (most cars, anyway) and are in much the same boat as you now are with the Jeep.
If it is a Subaru, well, I hear bad things about repairing them and the engines in general
If it is a RAV4, well, it shoudl last a while but parts will be more expensive.
Are you spending 300+ on parts every month? Do you dislike working on the car?
If it is (unlikely) more expensive to work on the Jeep, replace it. If you don't like doing the work, replace it. Otherwise, keep her until the wheels fall off. and put htem back on afterwards.

U-joints - easy, fairly cheap. Don't sweat em.
Ball joints - a bit of a pain in the ass, not bad though, you can definitely do them in half a weekend, when you're doing the u-joints you have gotten most of the way to the balljoints.
Sensors - pretty easy.
Sounds like your front main seal is leaking, or maybe oil pan gasket. None of the gaskets on the motor are all that bad to change except the rear main seal, which you can do in a day no problem.
Shocks - easy, the fronts are a one or two beer job with basic hand tools. Rears can be a bit of a pain, upper bolts usually snap off, take an air hammer or a BFH and a punch to the welded in nuts and they will pop off the backside, then use masking tape and a box wrench to sneak a new nut in there (5/16" grade 8 hardware and some washers, buy 6 nuts, 4 bolts, 4 washers. The extra nuts are because you are gonna drop a couple into the chassis probably and it's a lot less frustrating to just grab another one.)
* steering damper - maybe a half hour project. A lot of guys on here run without one, they aren't all that critical.
* tires - easy, especially while you're working on the front ujoints and balljoints and already have them off.
* leaf spring bushings - these are gonna be a bit of a pain in the ass. Are you sure it needs them? Even my stock ones were still fine on my 96, a friend of mine is still running one of them that he scavenged out of my old springs when I lifted my jeep.
* pitman arm boot - maybe an hour or two, could be somewhat of a pain.

I wouldn't hesitate to take any of my 3 XJ/MJ jeeps on a cross country road trip. Treat em right (as you apparently have) and they will last forever, or until the unibody rusts to pieces.

U-joints should cost like 30 bucks each (you have 2 5-760X type joints in the front axle, and 5 1310 size joints in the two driveshafts. You can probably check them and replace only as needed.)
Leaf spring bushings are about 8-10 bucks each, if you do them yourself they are cheap, if you have someone do them, they will want a decent amount of money because they can be a real pain in the ass.
Tires - whatever you want to pay!
Steering damper - never replaced one with a new one, only used, expect maybe 50 bucks max?
Shocks - I run $23 each gabriel guardians. They aren't the best, but get the job done and come with a lifetime warranty.
Clutch - not sure, figure 200 or so max for parts. Replace it when it starts chattering or slipping, if it is working fine, don't bother.
Pitman arm boot - again, cheap, just a minor pain to get to.
Sensors - 20 to 75 dollars each depending on which one. Leave em alone till they break, maybe carry spares. I carry a spare crankshaft position sensor and the tools to install it (takes maybe 30 minutes if you have never done it before, working on the side of the road) because if this dies, you are going nowhere.

That's about it... they aren't too hard to keep running, especially with an AX-15 manual transmission like yours.

KEEP IT!
my 99 with 205,000 and AX-15 has taken me coast to coast 2 times now since 175,000 miles! Parts for these rigs are so cheap and with an awesome community like this any repair is easily done!

kastein said:

. I carry a spare crankshaft position sensor and the tools to install it (takes maybe 30 minutes if you have never done it before, working on the side of the road) because if this dies, you are going nowhere.

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That's the thing...I don't want to have to worry about the car crapping out in the middle of a snow storm and me sitting on the side of the road fixing it.

The parts for most of the stuff isn't bad...but I just don't have the experience to do a lot of things like ball joints, clutch, RMS, fixing broken bolts, etc. so I'll wind up having to pay someone for a lot of this. I have a Haynes, but it really doesn't go into any detail on fixing things like the Pitman Arm Joint. (How do I go about fixing that, anyway?)

It needs close to $1k in stuff right now, and then I still have to worry about clutch, AC (nice to have in New Mexico), head gasket, etc. I was thinking I might be better off selling it before it needs all that junk. It's been pretty stiff going into 2nd when cold for quite a long time now, too.

If I lived somewhere rural and could keep a few extra cars I think I'd keep this forever and learn on it...but I'm just not sure right now.

I doubt it needs a head gasket unless you overheated it at some point. Did you take the thermostat out when you did the water pump? My thermostat housing (water outlet, according to autozone) gasket has a pinhole leak in it, and it dribbles coolant down onto the top of the water pump exactly like you describe.

As for learning on it, don't sweat it... I had no fricken CLUE what I was doing when I did my shocks the first time, and it still took me only 8 hours. Doing it right the next time around took me less than an hour.

The clutch could be a pain, yes, but I'm betting it will be fine for a good while yet.

Have you changed the fluid in the tranny? I believe yours needs GL-3 (i.e. NOT GL-5 unless it states it is yellow metal compatible on the bottle) or synthetic 10W30 motor oil (many people on here run this in the AX-15 with good results) and a simple fluid change may make it shift smoother.

First time I ever did balljoints (having never even held a balljoint tool) it took me 3 hours including assembling and disassembling the brake hardware and wheel hub, in the dark, in a parking lot. Don't worry about it, unless you are all thumbs, you can handle this just fine. You can get the replacement parts for about a hundred bucks for both sides from either alljeep.com or rockauto.

I would say the same about worrying about the car crapping out in a snowstorm, but I haven't had that happen yet, in fact I'm usually the guy my friends call for help when their more modern cars crap out in the middle of a snowstorm because my crappy jeeps they told me I should sell for a car like theirs are all running great :roflmao:

AC... yeah... can't tell you much about that.

If you want to sell it, go for it, I'm sure someone on here will want it, but I really prefer old reliable vehicles I can fix easily that have no payment attached. A 100k warranty does nothing for me when I am in the middle of nowhere, my collection of hand tools and a few spare parts has always seen me through.

Wow--clear title, no payments/interest, lower insurance cost, and ROUTINE MAINTENANCE/REPAIR NEEDED ON A TEN-YEAR 200K MILE VEHICLE--definitely get rid of it!

Just kidding, buy a 95 FSM and some Harbor Freight tools and fix it yourself.

I have a '92 with 240,000 and I put about $600 every other year into it. 4 wheel parts usually has a deal where you can buy 4 shocks and get a steering stabilizer for free. My .02

Unless you know the clutch is going bad, don't worry about it. My 96 lasted to 300k. The other repairs you listed I think could be done pretty cheap by yourself with some time. Stick with it.

Even if you break down on the road and have to have it fixed, that could happen with any vehicle, new or old. See what it costs to have a Toyota or Suburu fixed. You'll wish you had the old Jeep.

Other choice is to always have a warranty and new car payments (including high full coverage insurance).

Any used car you buy with over 80K on the clock could easily have more issues.

I'm in the same position with both my XJ and ZJ. They both have over 165K on them. What I am hearing is that you, like me, have a sense of wondering if it will start and run the next time you stick the key in the ignition or not,.... Particularly if you have a wife who is driving. Having her get stuck in the wrong place is just dangerous. I'm not married but I have responsibilities that need to be met. The feeling that a radiator might burst on the next trip or whatever,... it doesn't go away. If you're inclined to these thoughts and don't carry around a complete toolbox and parts store makes driving less fun. I'm getting rid of one of my Jeeps probably by the end of the year as I have a line on a 4Runner with only 63K on it and the price is right for both of us. I need reliability in a daily driver.

Right now I'm dealing with an occasional no-start problem and I can't figure out whether its the NSS or the ignition switch since it won't crank only occasionally and eventually always does. Its unnerving.

That's my 2 cents.

Sounds like the XJ is already a second car.
Do you think a new car payment will be cheaper then any service the old one is going to need?(be realistic)
Do you just want a new(er) car?(That's not sarcasm, it's the real reason most people get rid of old cars)

What kind of car payment can you afford, (or can you pay cash?) rolling in the rise in insurance premium for full coverage requirement? Now how many months will it take to hit the 2K mark if you saved that money(as in actually didn't spend it on something else and put it in the bank)? You can do ALL the heavy service on a well running XJ for under 2K.

The problem isn't that old cars wear out, it's that people don't maintain them. Look at aircraft. Average age of the fleet is approaching 40 years in the US. You don't see them falling out of the sky due to mechanical failure. Why?.. Required maintenance at intervals. Inspection and service are done so often that re-assembly errors/damage during service is a statically high cause of aircraft failures/accidents.

My take(you can see it coming, I'm sure) Do the service/repair the XJ needs to keep it healthy, and keep driving it. That is unless you actually just want a new car. If that's the case, go shopping.
If you DO decide to keep the wagon, instead of leaf spring bushings, replace ALL the rubber bushing in the suspension(front arm bushings, sway bar bushings and links, etc), the motor/trans mounts, shocks, and (surprise!) the front seat cushions. You'll be surprised how much like a new vehicle it acts.(This isn't "nickle and dime" - it's the price of not having to make a monthly car payment - and probably less then one car payment)

In the same vein,... I'm always confused about people not wanting a car that will "nickle and dime them to death", and figure the solution is to trade it for a car the will "arm and leg them to death".
Laughed so hard when gas prices went up a couple years ago, and people were trading in paid-for SUVs for econo-cars that came with payments and full-coverage insurance, then quickly figured out the money they saved on gas didn't cover the car payment.

Old vehicles are where it's at.. simple to fix, less to break.. they are paid off.

Yes, it's easier to get a loan at the bank when you have no car payments too..

The best way to fix most of those problems you are having is to buy a cheap small lift.. go get a 3 inch lift from RE or wherever and you get new leafs with new bushings, new control arms with new bushings, new shocks all around, new trackbar sometimes.. etc etc..

all for the pricetag of maybe 1k? The rest of that shit is basic.. you can do two ujoints OR you can go to the wrecker and buy two axleshafts (with decent ujoints) for $50.. bear in mind you need a 36mm (or whatever size it is again..) socket to crack off the unit bearing too..that's the 'dime' in nickel and dime.

If you are worried about being stuck on the side of the road don't be - the 4L motor will run longer than most motors built SINCE then anyway. If you are still worried go buy a BCAA membership (or USA equivalent). You should have one of those anyway.

Oops

Kinslayer said:

If you are worried about being stuck on the side of the road don't be - the 4L motor will run longer than most motors built SINCE then anyway. If you are still worried go buy a BCAA membership (or USA equivalent). You should have one of those anyway.

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Agreed. However its all the sh_t around it that the 4.0 needs to operate that always breaks, stops functioning or bursts a leak. Old Jeeps do break down often,... otherwise there would be no need for the OEM section of this board. While I agree that preventive maintenance goes a long way, the parts will nickel and dime you to death both in your wallet and the time involved diagnosing, making the repairs, and performing routine maintenance. While there are some very bright people on this board most of us don't have either the diagnostic equipment or mechanical expertise of a Jeep mechanic. Repairs if not easily diagnosed I've witnessed from the email traffic here take days or months sometimes to resolve. If you're like me you don't appreciate the finer nuances of lying on my back on frozen pavement in the middle of winter replacing a starter with frozen tools (been there done that.) Then there's the time I took a perfectly good ZJ with 4.0, tuned it up and then it wouldn't run worth a damn. Turned out that one of the spark plugs I installed had a hairline crack in the ceramic insulator. I spent several hours going around in circles trying to find out what I did wrong. The problem was quickly found by the shop I had the car towed to. I'm not a dunce and have successfully diagnosed and performed numerous repairs to my Jeeps. Likewise there have been those times that I've been ready to pull my hair out or drive both both of them off a cliff.

While financially it makes sense to keep an older vehicle to avoid monthly car payments and the associated interest, I double the value of my Jeep every time I fill it with gas. On way or another we're going to pay for transportation,... either out of pocket costs or out of tool chest. If its a hobby, great,... If its not, there are other options to consider. I need reliable transportation. Therefore, I'm getting a low mileage 4Runner being sold by a friend at the end of the year and will keep one of my Heeps as a hobby car.

I'm a long time member of and AAA.

sell it. it doesnt sound like you have what it takes to maintain an older vehicle (though very little is involved). go lease a brand new vehicle every few years to avoid having to lift a wrench. the economy thanks you for pumping a lot of money into it...

I choose to keep my xj in spite of the repair/parts costs. If yours has been maintained, you might regret getting rid of it.
Xj's problems are not that hard to fix, and look at how many members this site has. Cherokees are incredible vehicles.
On the down side, all vehicles require maintenance and repair, old and new. The Cherokee is the first vehicle I did more than oil change/ spark plugs type work on and I learn every time I swap parts. For me it is fun, and that's part of the reason I like it.
Car payments suck, but so does replacing fuel rail 'quick' connects in the winter on a mountain at night.
So really it's your call.

No payments, and as you say, the vehicle has been reliable to this point...

Also a number of things you indicated are things no-one actually replaces. I mean, how many folks, besides the off-roaders and speed freaks, have actually replaced a spring bushing? How many? I thought so. They either replace the springs and bushings because both are sagged out, or they leave them alone.

Steering damper. Well, gee, it's only got 196K on it. About F'n time you noticed it

Tires: Well ya, same thing

In essence you are wondering if your 95' will suddenly drop dead somewhere. Not very darn likely if it has been reliable up to now.

Will it "Nickel and dime you", well yes it will. A hose here, a belt there. If you don't do your own Clutch, it's probably $500-600.
But if the body and floors are in good condition, the drive train has been reliable, I don't see a reason not to keep it.

A new car will run you a minimum of $15K, and add in interest payments, you are talking about a final cost of over 20K. Oh, you want a Subaru? Add another 10 to both those figures, and change your head gasket at 100K or else. Do your own math for the monthly payments.

Oh, and if you're going to buy a new something, at least buy something made in the US. Some fellow American will thank you.

yardape said:

I'm in the same position with both my XJ and ZJ. They both have over 165K on them. What I am hearing is that you, like me, have a sense of wondering if it will start and run the next time you stick the key in the ignition or not,.... Particularly if you have a wife who is driving. Having her get stuck in the wrong place is just dangerous. I'm not married but I have responsibilities that need to be met. The feeling that a radiator might burst on the next trip or whatever,... it doesn't go away. If you're inclined to these thoughts and don't carry around a complete toolbox and parts store makes driving less fun. I'm getting rid of one of my Jeeps probably by the end of the year as I have a line on a 4Runner with only 63K on it and the price is right for both of us. I need reliability in a daily driver.

Right now I'm dealing with an occasional no-start problem and I can't figure out whether its the NSS or the ignition switch since it won't crank only occasionally and eventually always does. Its unnerving.

That's my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

When my jeep started not starting easily I looked up how to bypass the nss on my phone, bookmarked it. Then I bought a spare ignition switch and cylinder from a friend for 10 bucks. Tossed it under the passenger seat, problem solved!

You can actually bypass both if it's just starting issues, bypass the nss to put it in p/n then use a wrench to jump the starter solenoid terminal. Got myself home once that way.

I know it was just an example, but most problems can be solved in similar manners :gee:

stewie said:

sell it. it doesnt sound like you have what it takes to maintain an older vehicle (though very little is involved). go lease a brand new vehicle every few years to avoid having to lift a wrench. the economy thanks you for pumping a lot of money into it...

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No need to be a dick. I've had this thing for 15 years and almost 200k miles, and the only time anyone but myself has touched it is when the radiator quit in the middle of the Mojave, and for a brake problem I couldn't track down (as well as brake fluid flushes- I hate doing that). My braking forces STILL pulsates, too- just not as bad.

My concern is that little stuff is adding up to the value of the car....and then there's lots more little stuff behind that. If it was just an off-roader project that'd be fine, but this is the vehicle I depend on to take me on a 300 mile trip up to go skiing about 15-20x per year, and get me home in time to get enough sleep to be functional at work the next day.

I have a RAV4 in the driveway right now on an overnight test drive. It's 1400 below invoice. The 3.5 V6 engine is smooth, powerful, and it's roomier than the Jeep, and gets mid to high 20s mpg in a cruise. Still...even with my good deal, I'll be in it for almost 26k after taxes and stuff. Safety features like ABS, ESC, and side airbags would be appreciated with all the tired, bad-conditions driving I do.

I still keep going back and forth though...it'll cost me about $1200 at least to get me going for the ski season, just replacing the most needed obvious stuff. That's nothing compared to a car payment...but I'm still concerned about spending that just to find more issues waiting in line, or having some kind of problem on the side of a dark road on a snowy night. I'll need it pretty much every weekend and every repair will be an experiment and learning experience, which probably means paying for service.