Smog ??

[Rob D]

Sorry, I know this should be on one of the tech forums but I figure it most applies to us in CA. My question is how is this new law, dyno'ing for smog tests, is going to affect us with bigger tires, gears, etc? :confused: I just renewed so I'm safe till next year but figured I'd get an idea ahead of time if I'll have problems. Thanx.

Rob D

[Kejtar]

what new law?

[WesternXJ]

I passed mine with flying colors. Stock gears and 35's. :eek: :nono: :laugh:

[Jes]

Ya, I just got mine SMOGed a couple weeks ago. Passed easily(after I got the EOD sticker for my air tube :rolleyes: ) and was looking at the dyno that will be in use come October. I asked the SMOG guy about it and he looked at my Jeep and was unsure how it would work seeing that I have non stock off road tires and non stock gears.
He did inform me the price was going up to $90!!! :eek: :mad:
I'm getting sick of the over taxation by our state. Our roads suck yet we pay more for registration and other related taxes than any other state. I'm sick of it! :mad:

Jes

[5-90]

Smog Check II is more concerned with the idea of actual engine loading vice the two-speed idle test, and should not affect you (unless you now have all-wheel drive/constant 4WD, which is a conversion I'm starting to consider. If all founr wheels are constantly driving, they can't Dyno you and you have to get the SCI instead of the SCII.) Expect to pay $80-90 for the SCII Dyno check (the shop had a $40 machine bill and a $10-15K install/checkout bill to pay, so that's where it comes from!) for the new test. IIRC, SCII is supposed to roll out fully in October sometime...

Jes, I agree with you. With all we pay in excise and roads-related taxes, why are roads dating back to the Holy Roman Empire still better than ours? It's not that I have an issue with taxes - but if I spend money on something I like to get what I'm paying for! I wonder if they're still thinking about tripling reg fees across the board like I heard earlier this year - it would figure, now that my tags are down somewhere civilised ($46 last year - but they were $25 per annum back home...)

5-90

[Bryan C.]

I doubt there would be many problems with the dyno test. The only guys I worry about are the ones running stroker motors with high compression. I bet they pass everything but the NOX. A good rule of thumb is to get your car smogged in the morning on an mild temperature day. High outside temperatures can affect the the emissions coming from your engine.

Just come by Lehmer's in Concord and I'll give you a fair test with no BS about being lifted or having big tires. The only problem is we charge $100 for a smog.

Jes, I just went through the required smog update classes and I found an interesting passage in one of the sections regarding modifications to the air intake system. The state issued book I got says that any airtube modifactions are legal as long as all the required attachments are in place(like a PCV hose nipple and air filter attached). Sounds like the tech who smogged your car was not clear on the new law.


Bryan

[Kejtar]

Originally posted by Bryan C.
Jes, I just went through the required smog update classes and I found an interesting passage in one of the sections regarding modifications to the air intake system. The state issued book I got says that any airtube modifactions are legal as long as all the required attachments are in place(like a PCV hose nipple and air filter attached).

CAn you give us the rule number or something? I passed my smog like that (I forgot to put in the airbox and I Thought that the tech failed to notice the mod) once but it'd be good to have something to fall back on for the last minute tests...

Kejtar

[Bryan C.]

Allright, got the book out. It is the Smog Check Inspection Manual, issued by the BAR, revision 6, dated Aug. 2002.

Appendix K: Smog check requirements for modifications and add-on parts. Page K-4 Category I. Items not of concern: Non-thermostatically controlled air cleaners and/or elements. (Note: Applicable PCV and/or EVAP systems must remain closed with the new air cleaner assembly installed. Additionally, any other emission related components must remain intact.)

Basically it says that you can modify the intake tube however you please but all the smog related items must be attached and it must have an air filter element of some kind. This is my interpretation of the law and also how it was presented in class.

The 87 to 90 XJ 4.0l with the thermostatic air cleaner controls would not fall under this law, but the 91+ XJs would fall under this law and would allow the mods.

I also wondered if my 99+ intake upgrade on my 96 4.0l would be OK and I found this passage:
Intake Manifolds: Any intake manifold or adapter that includes provisions for the OEM emission controls(EGR, Thermostatically controlled air cleaner, carb, thermal switches, choke stove, exhaust cross-over etc.) is acceptable. The manifold must be marketed by the manufacturer as designed for street use on emission controlled vehicles.

Bryan

[5-90]

So, if I could do a new airtube with the damn preheater valve and the thermostatic "bimetal element" valve on my Renix XJ's, would I be able to pass under that ruling? I ask because I've been wanting to ditch that airbox (somehow I always wind up having to work about the damn thing and killing my knuckles on things or taking it out over and over...) and go to an "open element" filter. I could use a small fireplace damper for the preheater valve, and handle the rest rather easily...

Also, is there an online source for that ruling? I'd like to print it and keep it in my truck for future use if I do the mod...

5-90

[Bryan C.]

Sorry, your Renix XJ 4.0l is equipped with a thermostatically controlled airbox and it would not fall under this ruling.

2 pages later the book says that any modifications to this type of air cleaner requires ARB(Air Resources Board) approved replacement part.

I looked around on the state website, but found no online listing of this book. www.smogcheck.ca.gov

Bryan

[5-90]

So it won't matter even if I preserve the OEM thermostatic controls? What's the problem with these people? I just don't see the problem, provided all the original fittings/controls are maintained...

5-90

[Kejtar]

Allright, got the book out. It is the Smog Check Inspection Manual, issued by the BAR, revision 6, dated Aug. 2002.

Appendix K: Smog check requirements for modifications and add-on parts. Page K-4 Category I. Items not of concern: Non-thermostatically controlled air cleaners and/or elements. (Note: Applicable PCV and/or EVAP systems must remain closed with the new air cleaner assembly installed. Additionally, any other emission related components must remain intact.)


Woohoo... Bryan... I owe you a beer... remembering this thread helped me save the retest fee and edumacate the smog check guy :D

[Ivan]

It'll probably catch up to me eventually, but living (and registering my vehicles) in an attainment area in California (Humboldt Co), exempts me from having to do annual smog tests on all my vehicles. Only time I have to smog is when I sell :) All I have to do for annual registration is submit the reg fee and proof of insurance.

That may explain the crappy roads up here... no annual smog fees and all...

[Kejtar]

It'll probably catch up to me eventually, but living (and registering my vehicles) in an attainment area in California (Humboldt Co), exempts me from having to do annual smog tests on all my vehicles.

Ok... I'm kind of curious... I heard of this before... but I have never found out why.... so why are certain areas special? There is a place down south here that has the same deal...

[5-90]

Here's a thought - if I have prior inspeciton reports stating that my Renix XJ does NOT have a Thermostatic Air Cleaner setup, can I get away with mods to it? I'd like to be able to change things, but it's just asinine to have to revert to OEMR every two years - especially when nothing else is affected as a result!

I did keep the reports saying "Thermostatic Air Cleaner - NOT PRESENT" just in case. I've been wondering who to ask...

5-90

[Ivan]

Ok... I'm kind of curious... I heard of this before... but I have never found out why.... so why are certain areas special? There is a place down south here that has the same deal...

I'm not exactly sure why that is, other than perhaps it's population based and/or some sort of Air Quality District special designation. Keep in mind that Humboldt County is about 4 times the size of Orange County, yet only has a population base of 119,000...for the entire county! Heck we've only got 1 Jack in the Box and 4 McDonald's in all of Humboldt County! Whatever the reason is, I'm sure as heck glad that I don't have to deal with annual smog checks... :)

[Bryan C.]

Kejtar, glad I could help you out. It is amazing to me how many licensed smog techs do not really know the laws. These guys have to pass the smog check license exam every 2 years and they still are confused. I try to stay as up to date as possible regarding new laws and how to properly diagnose and repair vehicles. Apparently, techs like me are in the minority. Some techs are so scared of being cited by the state that if they see anything that even might be marginal or something they have never seen, they will fail the car and charge you to fix it. Some smog techs who do not speak english very well are given the smog check technician license exam where a translator administers the test verbally. This test is much easier due to the fact all the info is difficult to translate and thus has only about half of the normal questions compared to the written test. This is a serious loophole in the system and may be costing consumers quite a bit of money on repairs that were not needed. :soapbox:

Need to know what type of beer to buy me?
See = http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15688


The biannual smog checks are required in areas of high population, or high smog levels. Just untill recently, the bay area was a basic smog check area, but has been changed to an enhanced area requiring dyno testing. I do envy the people who only need to smog their cars when changing ownwership. I think smog technicians vehicles should be exempt. I don't think anyone in their right mind would fail their own vehicle. I just had to smog my XJ last week and it passed with flying colors. :laugh2:


5-90 - Regardless of how a previous smog tech inputted the info into the smog machine, you are still required to go by what the emissions application manual or emissions label says. But think about this, go back to the same place and try to have the same tech do the test, maybe he is really ignorant, or just doesn't care, either way he may still pass it.


Bryan

[Kejtar]

Need to know what type of beer to buy me?
See = http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15688

It will either be pale ale then... or something very exotic :D

[Letterman]

I just smoged my XJ, I had to because I just bought it.
It was almost $80 and that was with a $16 discount copon. OUCH!

[Kejtar]

I just smoged my XJ, I had to because I just bought it.
It was almost $80 and that was with a $16 discount copon. OUCH!

Where did you smog it at? that sounds waaaaaaaaaaaay too much.

[Letterman]

Where did you smog it at? that sounds waaaaaaaaaaaay too much.
San Jose, I looked around and most are above or around that price now, because of the new CA smog rules. :tear:

[Kejtar]

San Jose, I looked around and most are above or around that price now, because of the new CA smog rules. :tear:

I did mine at a test only place... and I thought $50 + certificate (no coupon on all that) was about $10 more then everyone else... I did it through cause I was tehre, and wanted to get it done and over with.... and this is LA area.

[Letterman]

I did mine at a test only place... and I thought $50 + certificate (no coupon on all that) was about $10 more then everyone else... I did it through cause I was tehre, and wanted to get it done and over with.... and this is LA area.
Was this with the NEW smog rules?
Now you have to put it on runners and get it up to speed. Not like the old days when you could just rev the skinny pedel.

[Kejtar]

Was this with the NEW smog rules?
Now you have to put it on runners and get it up to speed. Not like the old days when you could just rev the skinny pedel.
yup... this was on Wednesday.... so it was new rules.

[Letterman]

yup... this was on Wednesday.... so it was new rules.
Wow so I got Ripped off! :looser:
Oh well, at least beer prices have not gone up, I will go cry over a cold one! :rattle: :cheers:

[Boatwrench]

Bryan,
I have another XJ in my sights and have a few questions in regards to CA Smog.

1. Is it still required to pay the ~$300 fee to register an out of state vehicle the first time in CA? It was several years ago when I registered a CJ from CO.
2. XJ is an 88 currently registered out of state. Is there still 49 state and CA emissioned equipped vehicles? If so what equipment should I be looking for to be missing? The vehicle is an 88 4.0 w/5-spd.

Comment: Yes the techs don't know all the laws and how they apply. Of course they have several thousand varibles with the different years, makes and models. Most employers at small shops will not pay for training, techs need to take classes at night or Saturdays on their own dime and away from their families. I let my smog licemse elapse in 1985. I was tired of the owner pressuring me to just fill out a certificate and pipe test a car of friends of his.


Thanks for the info,
Tom

[WesternXJ]

Tom, I just smogged my "out of state" '94 and didn't pay any out of state fees. All it needed to do was pass Ca emissions, nothing had to be added. HTH :wave:

[Bryan C.]

The $300 dollar enivromental smog impact is no longer in effect. Some motorists even got refunds for the fees they paid. The difference between CA and 49 states is very minimal. The biggest problem with the older XJs is the vacuum and vapor lines deteriorating and falling apart, also check for the EGR valve and vacuum transducer assy. Make sure it has the factory air cleaner box with the hot air tube and vacuum lines intact.

To respond to your comment. I do understand that most employers do not train their technicians at all. I myself recently had to attend 40+hrs of state mandated smog update courses. The classes were 4hrs long on weeknights after work. I was not paid to do this training, but was told I may lose some of my pay if I let my license lapse. I shouldn't complain too much about training, my dealership paid for 12 full days of factory training for just me last year alone. Most techs do not have the same opportunity to further their education at the expense of their employers. While I sympathise about being away from their families, the same thing is required of me too. I just don't like the idea of charging someone for something they don't need due to the technicians ignorance. Sorry, rant is over.

Bryan

[Boatwrench]

Thanks for the info. There maybe a 2nd XJ i the family by the end of the weekend.
Tom

[Kejtar]

I just don't like the idea of charging someone for something they don't need due to the technicians ignorance.
yup :D

[Rob D]

Just a couple of thoughts about the costs of these dyno smog tests. My understanding is that these dyno tests are new to us in NorCal but not new in SoCal. With the high cost of equipment for these new tests it was predicted to cost more at first and then get a little cheeper as some of the equip costs were recovered. That may explain why Kejtar only had to pay $50 in LA but it's $80 to $100 up here in the Bay area. :rattle:

[Letterman]

Just a couple of thoughts about the costs of these dyno smog tests. My understanding is that these dyno tests are new to us in NorCal but not new in SoCal. With the high cost of equipment for these new tests it was predicted to cost more at first and then get a little cheeper as some of the equip costs were recovered. That may explain why Kejtar only had to pay $50 in LA but it's $80 to $100 up here in the Bay area. :rattle:
Yeah I thought so, I looked around and found that same Price range. I thought just under $80 with the cert. was not bad.

Maybe I am not a :looser:





Nope, just checked I am!

[Gary E]

I'm getting sick of the over taxation by our state. Our roads suck yet we pay more for registration and other related taxes than any other state. I'm sick of it! :mad:

Jes

Just to continue the rant, I loved how it came out in the debates, that in the 70s we spent something like 15% of total revenue on infrastructure, you know highways, roads water treatment plants, universitys etc. Now its something stupid like half of a percent. Can you guess how much traffic we would have if it still worked that way, yup zero zip nada. The only problem is they would have so much money to spend on roads and stuff that they would probably pave our trails. :)

Heck I would be happy if our gas tax and registration fees were actually spent on roads and our OHV money actually went to OHV areas. :sure:

Just to continue, I am sure nobody is listening now anyway, I found it very interesting when talking about unemployment that one particular major "ethnic group" had a 50% unemployment rate, Geesh how can you hire somebody that has a one out of two chance in collecting unemployment off of you? Sorry I had to throw that one in can you tell I am bitter about someone in that "ethnic group"? :)

[Jes]

Gee... don't get me started again Gary!
Try...ing...not...to...reply... :)

Jes

[5-90]

Unemployment? Gawd - I know about that! I've had something like a dozen jobs in the last seven years, and I keep getting "downsized" (there's a euphemism for you - we're doing what's best for us and screw you!) from anything resembling a decent job. When I go for a new one, it comes out that I'm "overqualified and undereducated," and I never get to collect anything from unemployment, either. Doesn't matter that I've paid into it with every damn paycheck I get - I can't get anything out of it. Filing an insurance claim is easier...

Throw in that I don't have a "race card" to play, and that explains why I'm back in school. At least that fills in the "resume stain" of unemployment - and looking for a job don't count with employers as something constructive to do.

As far as taxes go, there was a woman out here in Berzerkeley a couple years ago who refused to file on the grounds that she did not want to financially support the war with Iraq, and wanted to control where her money went. Capital idea - can I tell the IRS to go soak their heads, take 10% of what we make, and send into the Armed Forces Payroll Fund? There isn't much else that I care to support in government - congresscritters don't need my money, and I refuse to support the welfare state, the National Endowment for the Arts, or the various other iterations of the vermiform appendix we have been financially saddled with (like the ATF, most of BLM, 2/3 of the EPA, and others.)

5-90

[MudSlinger]

Just a couple of thoughts about the costs of these dyno smog tests. My understanding is that these dyno tests are new to us in NorCal but not new in SoCal. With the high cost of equipment for these new tests it was predicted to cost more at first and then get a little cheeper as some of the equip costs were recovered. That may explain why Kejtar only had to pay $50 in LA but it's $80 to $100 up here in the Bay area. :rattle:

It's not the cost of the Dyno but what I call "COST OF LIVING". The price of the dyno has falling sometime ago. The cost to live in the Bay area has not.When I drive to the Bay Area I fill up with gas before I leave since I know that the gas will cost alot more there.
If you don't want to pay 80-100 for a smog then drive to the central valley (Fresno,Los Banos,Sac,etc). Where I do smogs it's a total of 47.20 and you get a free car wash (www.redcarpetcarwash.com).