so my springs are sagging a bit in my 89 xj, i cant really afford new springs so i was going to do a 1.5-2" add a leaf. my question is when looking around im seeing short and long ones. im guessing i want the longer one that goes right below the main leaf but im not sure of the pros/cons between the two. btw i know it would be better to just get new springs but im poor and i cant afford them so any advice one the AAL's?
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AAL question
- Thread starter mtndew
- Start date
MJ3000
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Pennsylvania
If all you need to do is level out the rear, I'd just get a pair of greasable shackles, stick them in, and call it a day.
With the AAL no matter if you go with a long or a short one.....it WILL sag over time no matter what brand. The AAL is trying to lift the entire vehicle's weight with one leaf. This takes alot of energy and will ultimately leave you with a stiff ride. With the shackle your not changing your springs your just pushing the unibody up with a longer shackle.
You could also use blocks, but they would cause more problems than they solve in the end. Shackles will be cheaper and easier to install than the AAL too.
With the AAL no matter if you go with a long or a short one.....it WILL sag over time no matter what brand. The AAL is trying to lift the entire vehicle's weight with one leaf. This takes alot of energy and will ultimately leave you with a stiff ride. With the shackle your not changing your springs your just pushing the unibody up with a longer shackle.
You could also use blocks, but they would cause more problems than they solve in the end. Shackles will be cheaper and easier to install than the AAL too.
arent shackles bad for spring sag as well? i would think that would make them sag more due to more pressure on the axles? i was actually thinking about doing shackles as well as the AAl and some spacers up front but i figured that i would want to do the AAL before shackles. im pretty new to 4x4's so please correct me if im wrong there
MJ3000
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Pennsylvania
The length of the shackle doesn't affect how much pressure is being put on the springs enough to make a difference. The only thing that can happen is spring wraping if you have a ridiculously long shackle......say anything over 2". Under that 2" though, you'll be fine.
The AAL will make the springs sag and will make the on road ride alot more stiff than it probably already is. Just save yourself the hassle of installing them and the problems they cause and go with shackles. Oh and they're cheaper as well.
You'll thank me later. :cheers:
The AAL will make the springs sag and will make the on road ride alot more stiff than it probably already is. Just save yourself the hassle of installing them and the problems they cause and go with shackles. Oh and they're cheaper as well.
You'll thank me later. :cheers:
joe_peters
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Grants Pass, OryGun
Go to the salvage yard, score a set of stock XJ springs off a late model, bring them home. Take the main leaf out of your current springs, grind the "eyes" off both ends and add that into the late model spring pack--a mini-bast*rd pack.
that was my origional plan but the junk yards around here want more than i can afford for a set of leafs otherwise i would already have them, so shackles sound like a better idea, but as far as load on the springs, i have an atermarket tire rack with full size spare on it, and i usually have a bunch of tools in the back so i was thinking about adding the AAl after shackles. any suggestions on what size shackle to go with? or is it just depending on how much im sagging?
joe_peters
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Grants Pass, OryGun
Well, with the added details I would say shackles aren't going to do much for you except hasten the demise of your current springs.
Hit the NW regional forum or Craigslist--XJs are getting parted out all the time, and every time someone installs a lift kit with leaves another set of OEMs becomes available.
Good luck.
Hit the NW regional forum or Craigslist--XJs are getting parted out all the time, and every time someone installs a lift kit with leaves another set of OEMs becomes available.
Good luck.
alright i was thinking the shackles werent going to be good for the moment. one more question, is there any other vehicles i pull springs off of that will directly fit on my xj? i dont really think so but figured i'd ask, I've been looking for springs somewhat and all that i can seem to find are in AAA wrecking for like 200 bucks or springs just as bad as mine
joe_peters
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Grants Pass, OryGun
There are quite a few options for building bastard packs.
Good read here: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1004504
Good read here: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1004504
Matthew Currie
NAXJA Member #760
- Location
- Vermont, land of big clay
I'll put in my usual plug for the shorter leaf option, if you want simply to restore stock height with little or no effect on ride. I've done this twice. It may not be any better than the method Joe P. mentions above, but I find it a little neater. You take a leaf, either main or #2, and shorten it so that its length falls somewhere between the lengths of the original #2 and #3. Here, if it comes through correctly, is a picture I just took of my 99, done several years ago, with 250+ thousand miles on original springs. In this case it was a cut-down top leaf, because I had used the second leaf from the same pack on my 95 years before. As you can see, there's still some reverse curve there, but sag is essentially absent even with a type 3 hitch on it.
- Location
- Minneapolis, MN
Many people simply repeat what they read someplace on some forum and have no direct experience with the AAL. That said, success with an AAL lift can, and will, depend on the condition of your original leaf pack and with the AAL type used (short overload or long full leaf), and brand name of AAL.
A point to remember is that no matter what type of lift you use, you are still required to extend your bump stops. Over flexing any leaf spring will cut its lifespan dramatically, no matter what type of lift you install. Leaf springs simply cannot deal with the stress of over-flexing.
Ride stiffness is more dependent on your choice of shock absorbers and brand of lift parts, than on the actual type of lift parts, AAL vs brand new lift pack. All lifted vehicles will ride differently than stock and you should expect some compromises when driving a lifted Cherokee.
Lift blocks contribute to axle wrap and are the least desirable lift option. Lift blocks are also the most likely lift option to cause excessive leaf spring sagging due to the addition of axle wrap to the lift equation. An AAL does not contribute to axle wrap and will actually help prevent spring wrap.
A severely sagged stock leaf spring will in fact, be harder on any AAL than a stock leaf spring pack in decent condition. That is simple physics and plain common sense. A short AAL has to very stiff to lift the rest of the saggy stock leaves. I think the first AAL kits were the short leaf type and this may be where the bad ride, quickly sagging, stories started. A Short Leaf AAL also concentrates its lift in the area of the main leaf that is already under stress and prone to sagging, near the spring eyes. A Full Length AAL on the other hand, spans between both spring eyes and reduces the weight load each leaf below it has to carry. Spring sag usually begins at the ends of the main leaf near the spring eyes, and progresses to the smaller leaves flattening them out. The spring rate or stiffness of a full length AAL will be less than a short AAL. It will ride a little more firmly than stock, but shouldn't be objectionable with good quality shocks.
I have owned or helped my buddies repair or install all types of lift. Our local Cherokee club has 14 lifted rigs and I have built and owned 3 lifted Cherokees and a lifted CJ-7. I had extended shackles on my stock leaf packs and so did one of the local XJ's. A week long 4x4 trip proved that the extended shackles sagged and ruined the stock leaf springs very quickly. With a replacement lift spring that is designed to handle the extra flexing and load carrying of an off road trip, extended shackles are just fine and actually help smooth the ride and increase the flex. One of the local XJ's had 2" lift blocks and not only did the leaf spring sag, it went S shaped from axle wrap and then it cracked the main leaf in two. We just built a bastard pack for another Cherokee using an S-10 spring pack and the original Cherokee Main leaf. This set up works well on the road and trails and gives a little over 4 inches of lift.
I ran a Full Length 2.5 " AAL from Rubicon Express on my Cherokee with some un-sagged stock leaf packs along with an extra stock leaf. That netted me a little over 3 inches of lift. I ran this lift on two different week long trips to Moab, a week in central Colorado, and regularly hauled 300+ lbs of cargo. It did well on the trails and never sagged in the least in the 3 + years this set up was on my Cherokee. It was maybe 10-15% firmer than stock, but it was smooth on the roads. My current RE 3.5 Replacement Leaf Spring packs are smoother and flex better than the AAL but they also cost more than the $100 I spent buying and installing the RE 2.5" AAL.
The brand name of products you choose for your lift will have an effect on its lifespan and on the quality of ride, on or off road. The only way to make lift parts cheaper is to reduce the quality of the materials used to make those parts.
A point to remember is that no matter what type of lift you use, you are still required to extend your bump stops. Over flexing any leaf spring will cut its lifespan dramatically, no matter what type of lift you install. Leaf springs simply cannot deal with the stress of over-flexing.
Ride stiffness is more dependent on your choice of shock absorbers and brand of lift parts, than on the actual type of lift parts, AAL vs brand new lift pack. All lifted vehicles will ride differently than stock and you should expect some compromises when driving a lifted Cherokee.
Lift blocks contribute to axle wrap and are the least desirable lift option. Lift blocks are also the most likely lift option to cause excessive leaf spring sagging due to the addition of axle wrap to the lift equation. An AAL does not contribute to axle wrap and will actually help prevent spring wrap.
A severely sagged stock leaf spring will in fact, be harder on any AAL than a stock leaf spring pack in decent condition. That is simple physics and plain common sense. A short AAL has to very stiff to lift the rest of the saggy stock leaves. I think the first AAL kits were the short leaf type and this may be where the bad ride, quickly sagging, stories started. A Short Leaf AAL also concentrates its lift in the area of the main leaf that is already under stress and prone to sagging, near the spring eyes. A Full Length AAL on the other hand, spans between both spring eyes and reduces the weight load each leaf below it has to carry. Spring sag usually begins at the ends of the main leaf near the spring eyes, and progresses to the smaller leaves flattening them out. The spring rate or stiffness of a full length AAL will be less than a short AAL. It will ride a little more firmly than stock, but shouldn't be objectionable with good quality shocks.
I have owned or helped my buddies repair or install all types of lift. Our local Cherokee club has 14 lifted rigs and I have built and owned 3 lifted Cherokees and a lifted CJ-7. I had extended shackles on my stock leaf packs and so did one of the local XJ's. A week long 4x4 trip proved that the extended shackles sagged and ruined the stock leaf springs very quickly. With a replacement lift spring that is designed to handle the extra flexing and load carrying of an off road trip, extended shackles are just fine and actually help smooth the ride and increase the flex. One of the local XJ's had 2" lift blocks and not only did the leaf spring sag, it went S shaped from axle wrap and then it cracked the main leaf in two. We just built a bastard pack for another Cherokee using an S-10 spring pack and the original Cherokee Main leaf. This set up works well on the road and trails and gives a little over 4 inches of lift.
I ran a Full Length 2.5 " AAL from Rubicon Express on my Cherokee with some un-sagged stock leaf packs along with an extra stock leaf. That netted me a little over 3 inches of lift. I ran this lift on two different week long trips to Moab, a week in central Colorado, and regularly hauled 300+ lbs of cargo. It did well on the trails and never sagged in the least in the 3 + years this set up was on my Cherokee. It was maybe 10-15% firmer than stock, but it was smooth on the roads. My current RE 3.5 Replacement Leaf Spring packs are smoother and flex better than the AAL but they also cost more than the $100 I spent buying and installing the RE 2.5" AAL.
The brand name of products you choose for your lift will have an effect on its lifespan and on the quality of ride, on or off road. The only way to make lift parts cheaper is to reduce the quality of the materials used to make those parts.
as of right now im not really even looking to lift my jeep, just wanna level the back end out until i can afford to lift it right.
but i had one more question, i want so see how far it's sagged, what is the stock measurement front and back for distance between center of the axle to the fender?
but i had one more question, i want so see how far it's sagged, what is the stock measurement front and back for distance between center of the axle to the fender?
joe_peters
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Grants Pass, OryGun
Matthew Currie
NAXJA Member #760
- Location
- Vermont, land of big clay
Poor exposition on my part perhaps. I took the main leaf from another pack, and cut it down to become the new #3 (counting down from main) leaf you see in the picture. You can cut down either a #2 or main leaf to that length, but of course the leaf you cut must start out longer than the original #3, which is now demoted to #4.
