Remove body cross piece to remove 4.0 engine?

I'm pulling the 4.0 I6 from my buddy's '90 XJ with an auto tranny. I've done 3 engines so far so I've got a little experience.

I pulled each of the previous engines by removing the radiator but not removing the body cross piece. I don't know what to call this thing but it is the external front cross piece where the j e e p badge goes and where the front grille attaches and just in front of the hood.

Now the engine just barely comes out this way. The engine is just maybe an inch shorter than the distance from the cross piece to the firewall.

So the questions is... is it easy enough to remove the cross piece to make it worth doing?

Thanks!

Super easy removal and install. Its called the header panel and I think it takes like 8 screws to remove it and unplugging two light connectors after the radiator support and radiator are out.

Total time.....10 minutes?

You're in california, the bolts aren't gonna be that rusty, yank it.

There's the light harness connector and sometimes (with factory fogs) a couple relays clipped to the inside of the engine compartment, plus 4 1/2" or 13mm nuts (careful or you'll snap the bolts) on the fender ends, 4 more 10mm nuts on the top edge, and some assorted screws.

If you have a load leveler and also remove the front bumper (or have a fairly long-boomed cherry picker) you can pull the whole drivetrain as a unit by angling it up and out, then work on it at your leisure outside the vehicle and poke it back in afterwards.

Coool. Pulling the 4.0 with the cross piece in is a PITA! I'm gonna remove the cross piece this time.

Thanks for the advice! Bet I can get the motor out without removing the alternator too.

Mike

Oh, it's totally possible.

Sunday night I pulled an entire 4.0/AW4/NP231 combo out of my 96 XJ with a 3.5" lift, 33s, and an offroading bumper, without removing any body parts except the hoop on the bumper, the radiator, and the header panel - in a parking lot, in the rain. It SUCKED but it is possible. Pull the bumper as well and it is no problem at all.

The only accessory I removed was the power steering pump and tensioner pulley and that was because I didn't want to have to open the lines for the P/S system if I didn't have to. Just pulled the air filter housing, disconnected the PS pump from the intake manifold and set it aside where the air filter used to be.

Rain in a parking lot. I like that one. Best I've ever done in a parking lot is an alternator, but I've done it twice.

So you pulled the whole thing.

The objective is to get the engine swapped.

Which is more easily done:

1) pull the whole drive train and split the tranny/motor outside the vehicle, basically by laying it on the floor, then lift the engine onto the engine stand, remove various parts, put rebuilt engine on stand, put on parts, rebuilt engine to floor, connect tranny, power train back into vehicle.

Or

2) Support the tranny in the vehicle, split the engine off in the vehicle, just remove the engine, put the engine onto the engine stand, remove various parts, put rebuilt engine on stand, put on parts, rebuilt engine back into vehicle, connect tranny.

In case 1) I have to disconnect the shifter levers and figure out how to remove and install the tranny on the floor because I don't have a stand that can hold the drive train while I split engine from tranny or when I reconnect

But in case 2) I have to lay under the vehicle and get engine/tranny aligned and do those top *%%%** bolts.

Thanks!

I personally hate working on the engine/bellhousing while it's in the vehicle. Some agree, some don't. Those stupid E12 external torx bolts are a bear - they took me a grand 20 seconds to pop loose while standing next to the transmission. Even with the engine still dangling from my hoist, putting the new transmission on it only took me about five or ten minutes - wrestled it mostly into place, threw a single E12 bolt in to keep it from sliding down, got the torque converter snout seated in the end of the crankshaft (note! put the torque converter in the transmission till it's below flush with the bellhousing THEN attach to the engine! Don't bolt to the flexplate then install transmission or you will be replacing your transmission fluid pump) then got the bellhousing aligned and seated properly and bolted it down.

I looked at it and said... hmmm... I don't have a tranny jack and I hate working in the tranny tunnel on top of the transmission. I have to pull the transmission. By the time I'm done I might as well pull the engine as well, the only difference is the header and a bunch of hoses and wires plus a few more mounts.

So PERSONALLY I prefer pulling the whole drivetrain but I'm sure others will disagree... personal preference really.

EDIT: yeah I could have done without the rain. Even so I would do it again in a heartbeat, I'd just take my darn bumper off beforehand and maybe let some air out of the front tires or put strut compressors on the coil springs so it doesn't take as much to lift the drivetrain off the engine mounts.

I take it you pulled the engine/transmission to do transmission work. Must be really easy to get the whole drive line out.

I think I understand your note about tranny installation. I should bolt flex plate to crankshaft, then assemble tranny to engine using top two torx and the other lower bolts so everything is tight, THEN rotate crank and install 4 bolts from flex plate to tranny torque converter. Right?

I think maybe I'll try pulling the whole drive line this time. Just to try something new.

At any rate pulling the engine or engine/tranny WITHOUT having to remove the manifold or the alternator bracket will be a joy. Stripping these off with the engine in the vehicle, and especially putting them back, is a PITA.

Mike

Correct.

Make sure you use a 14mm wrench on the two nuts at the downpipe flange, and disconnect the O2 sensor wiring harnesses from everything including the body and engine clips... don't ask how I know this is a good idea..

It's not critical which bolts you use to get the transmission mounted to the engine so long as it works. I was working alone and only had one hand to hold the transmission in place while I threw a couple bolts in it to make it stay put, so I chose the top ones. Make sure you have a dowel / roll pin / sleeve inserted in each "wing" on the engine where the bolts at 3 and 9 o'clock on the transmission go in, those handle most of the torque. All bolts screwed into the engine (the E12s at the top and the two bolts at 3 and 9 o'clock going into the block wings) are SAE fasteners while everything going into the starter, torque converter, and transmission are metric... and be careful with your CPS, it's delicate.

EDIT: and if I didn't already say it, use all 4 of the chains for your load leveler... all 4! Seriously this helps amazingly. If you don't, the drivetrain will tip one way when you have it nose down, and the other way when you have it hanging level. It's real hard to get the motor mounts and everything lined up while it's doing this.

Here's some last minute questions 'cause it comes out tomorrow.

Front motor mounts: Pull the single large horizontal bolt? or Pull the mount where it connects to the body? or pull from the motor?

Exhaust cross-over tube from header to cat converter. Pull this?

There are shift levers on a little axle that spans from trans to body. What do you do here?

I have a cherry picker. Someone mentioned removal of the front bumper. Is this worth the effort?

Where should I attach lift chains?

Here I go...


Here's the plan so far. If you see any additions or something out of order please shout:



Photograph extensively both sides motor.
Create a clipboard of elecrical
Create a clipboard of parts/supplies


Top work
------------
Pull battery
Pull air box
Pull electric fan


Pull wire group at back of motor, passenger side.
Pull Alternator wires
Pull A/C wires
Pull Starter motor wires

Pull sensor wire harness
Break CPS connection
Pull injector/O2 wire harness

Pull fan belt
Pull PSP and lay aside

Loosen fan shroud
Pull lower radiator hose and drain radiator

Pull upper radiator support panel
Pull upper radiator hose
Cap motor, cap radiator hose.
Pull tranny oil lines
Pull radiator

Pull A/C pump and lay aside
Pull charcoal vent filter?

Pull body cross piece



Bottom work
------------------

Drain oil
Pull oil filter and bracket for motor mount bolt removal

Pull drive shift to rear diff
Pull drive shaft to forward diff
Break exhaust/header connection
Remove flex plate bolts

Remove bumper



Out of vehicle
--------------------
Support trans
Pull tranny cross bar & motor mount

Remove hood
Chain motor
Lift with picker
Pull motor mount bolts
Pull motor
Motor to floor
Seperate trans from motor
Motor to stand
Strip motor










Thanks for the help

Mike

I'm about to hit the sack for the night, will post what I did in the morning.

Cool! Thanks!

The OR is prepared and the patient about to be rolled in.

Ok it's out. Left tranny in the vehicle. Decided that this was easier and it is coming out. Still have to get it back in but my experience is that this step isn't so bad. What convinced me is that I feared breaking some of the rusted screws holding the forward drive shaft to the diff yoke. It's really a PITA if one of these were to break. Just about no way to extract the broken off part in the yoke.

We pulled the horizontal bolt, then pulled the motor mount but not the arms connected to the engine. Lowered the engine until these intesected the body now absent the motor mounts. Was able to get to passenger side E12. Disconnected tranny cross support and lowered tranny a bit and got to driver side E12. Left the lower 2 tranny to engine bolts. Put tranny back up, lifted engine back up, pulled lower 2 tranny to engine bolts and out she came.

Didn't take cross piece at front completely off but partially off and getting engine lifted out was easy.

Now all that remains is to put the new Jasper in.

Thanks for the help

Last week I was sweating bullets working on the Jeep in the garage.
Since you live near the coast yesterdays weather was great for pulling the engine.
Unfortunately I was working the weekend otherwise I would have stopped by to lend a hand.
Keep us updated on your progress.
Depending upon when you install the new engine; I can come over to assist.

Charles

Crap! Forgot completely, I'm a day late and a dollar short.

What I would do -
Remove header panel and crosspiece
Remove radiator
Remove air filter housing
Disconnect wiring harness from engine (the one that goes down the valve cover fr the injectors) REMEMBEER TO MARK INJECTOR PLUGS BY NUMBER!!!
Disconnect tranny harnesses by dipstick
Disconnect o2 sensors and leave cables hanging, mark connectors for upstreams if there are multiple
Disconnect cables from throttle body
Disconnect battery cables from battery (hell it shoould have been taken out first I guess)
Disconnect wiring harness with battery cables at the connectors near the pdc and engine mount
Disconnect fuel line from rail using 3/8 quickdisconnect tool
Unplug all vac lines, unscrew fuel line support from manifold
Unbolt exhaust from header, they're 14mm. Use plenty of pbblaster
Unbolt tranny crossmember while supporting trans with rolling jack
Free exhaust from header
Unbolt engine mounts from above and below, 15mm iirc
Disconnect ps pump from manifold and place where the air folter housing was
Disconnect ac compressor lines or find a way to move the whole system to the side without disconnecting
I think that's about all... jack 'er up and out!

Oh yeah, that stupid ground braid you just found with the engine hoist. Cut it and replace with 2-4awg or a premade cable from 5-90.

Reassembly is the reverse of removal... but you will curse in different places.

Hopefully you left the torque converter ON/IN the transmission and didn't pull it with it attached to the engine.

If you didn't, and you pulled the engine with the torque converter attached, you need to remove it and get it fully seated back on/in the transmission. Trying to stuff the engine in with the torque converter attached, and not damaging the torque converter and/or the transmissions pump/seal is about 1 out of 999.

Yep, though it's easy to reinstall while the engine is not there.

Just realized I forgot about the transfer case linkage and driveshafts in my list :dunce:

A flat blade screwdriver can be used to lever the linkage off the transfer case, the pivot that goes into the brace on the side of the transmission will dislodge with a solid kick to the side of the tranny or output shaft of the transfer case. Getting it back in is a little more difficult but still not bad. Be sure your jack is solidly under the tranny while kicking it...

Yesterday's pull went really smoothly. Just a lot of work.

We didn't completely pull out the body cross piece. But we did loosen it to the point where we could bend it forward by about 4 inches. This made getting the motor out really a lot easier.

The other thing we learned this time is that the motor-to-motor mount arms that are bolted to the motor did not need removal in the vehicle. I worried they would prohibit us lowering the motor sufficiently to get the upper E-12 bolts but no problem - just lowered the motor 'till these arms hit the motor mount supports of the body and the E-12 were easy.

We removed with the manifold on but pulled off the alternator to give us a little more room to lower. Will try putting the motor back in in the same condition.

Yes, coastal weather was really great for pulling this weekend. Most times it is cool where we are so at least the weather is comfortable.

This is the 5th motor out in the old garage and when we put the new one back it will be the 4th goes back in. Looks like this will happen Sat or Sun. Thanks for the offer of assistance! But probably not necesary since there are two of us. The only really sticky part for put-back is the alignment of the motor to the trans and those top E-12.

Will post the results of the put-back.

Alignment of motor to trans should not be difficult with a cherry picker, load leveler, and two people. Just put that torque converter on the tranny first! Can't stress that enough.

My torque converter stayed with the tranny so I'm good there. Last time I forgot to pull the 4 bolts from flex plate and the converter came off with the engine. Spilled oil everywhere. And with the body cross piece still in place (didn't take it loose last time) the engine was too long to get out and jammed and I had to crawl around in the oil and, well you get the picture. Wasn't pretty.

But this time I did it right and converter is still in the trans.