'3/4 Ton and Not going to be Done'

[aparke4]

So, after selling my old built 30/44 to Redneck, the jeep sat on jack stands for the last 6 months until about a month ago my buddy sold me his F-250 HD 44 front and 60 rear axles. Finally the full width set I have been searching for! They were under his YJ for a bit and he is going rocks - well now 9 inch/44 until the rocks are done. Ben fully rebuilt the front and rear: ball joints, u joints, seals, rear disc conversion etc. all done right. Even the yokes are set up for the jeep 1310 to 1350 U joint. So, an almost complete bolt in set of axles. Driveshafts will have to be shortened due to longer center sections of the bigger axles.

The axles are geared at 4.10. These will get re-geared to 5.13 or 3.38 and will build them around a 38-40 inch tire. The rear has a welded carrier and a 1/2 press breaked truss with 3/16 plate over the pumkin connecting the axle tubes. On, the rear all we had to do was cut old leaf perches and move them out an inch or so for XJ leafs which are from a Nissan titan providing 5 inches of stretch with Andy's Ironman4x4fab stress relief shackles. I have a new carrier for gears as well as a lockright for the 60 when i order gears/ install kits. The 44 will get a aussie locker as well. The jeep sits on skyjacker 6 inch front coils with 1 inch spacer (old coils - sagged to about 6 inches of lift total) with rear pro comp 16 inch shocks with bilsteins up front. Some other specs on jeep: 1999 xj auto, 231 with SYE, HD Engineering Uni stiffeners, hydro assist already there with a PSC ram, gen right pulley and cooler, 4.0 with 100k on it, custom tube fender and cage work, banks header, bored tb, Rustys CAI, warn winch with amsteel rope and a lot more.

The front axle is a LP but I really have been impressed with this HD 44 housing. The rollers for now are 39.5 boggers at 18 wide which are silly but they are for mock up. Eventually I want to stay in the 37-39 range until i get stronger shafts then I might go with a 40 inch tall tire at about 15-16 inches wide max. The front like I mentioned before has been fully rebuilt and is open in the diff with new warn lockouts. For ease, I went with a treks/ TNT truss for the 44. With a little massaging around the pumkin the truss fits like buttah. I got it fully decked out with truss, HD LCA mounts, HD UCA mounts, raised track bar mount and shock/ spring coil buckets and mounts. This thing is BAD and really saved me a ton of time and really took the guesswork out of getting everything right while swapping axles. The truss also spans 95 percent across so the housing will be stupid strong. The pumkin will be tig'ed to the truss and I also have the ballistic fab 44 gussets for the C's.

For long arms, I am running Andy's Ironman 4x4 Monster long arms with his upper adjustables. They are 2 inch DOM with a wall thickness of .281. Currie joints with a custom made shank of 5-6 inches long I think makes these nuke proof. Greasable bushings with zircs installed are standard. Attention to detail and craftsmanship is impeccable. He custom built these to fit with my Ironrock Offroad 3 piece truss. Simply beefy.

Here are some teasers. More pics to come.

http://i36.tinypic.com/3zod4.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/20l18iu.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2sbwzz9.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/263g4fp.jpg

[aparke4]

http://i36.tinypic.com/ozdxl.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/rc67o7.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/34gtumo.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/30c7ksx.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2urs487.jpg

[aparke4]

http://i38.tinypic.com/2rd7zp4.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/5uh4ba.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2lwswvr.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/m8zns7.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/w6tkro.jpg

[aparke4]

http://i37.tinypic.com/sdjllu.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/4sif75.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2z73i4w.jpg

[aparke4]

old pics:

http://i39.tinypic.com/24enqdj.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/262o7cy.jpg

[ROBZ95Xj]

sorry to ruin your parade but d44/60 combo=3/4 ton not 1ton, do you really expect a d44 to hold up to a 38-40" tire? also does the rear 60 have 30 sp0line shafts or has it been upgraded to 35 spline shafts, and why did you go with radius arms

[bics90xj]

Have you tried those shackles? I like the idea.

[aparke4]

i thought the 60 was a 1 ton axle - i know the front 44 is the lesser of the two... in any case my friend had 39's on these for a while and seemed to hold up ok - granted my XJ on the lighter side of things but still a 40 inch tire will cause some stress... in any case replacing u joints and shafts is something i can live with and can always upgrade. I really feel good about these axles but as always time will tell...

The shackles are great in design but i have not had any time on them yet... the jeep still needs some TLC on the driveshafts and the front axle to get it driving... in person the are really impressive looking.

[cracker]

40s on a 44?

please reconsider.

Your rig is not as light as you think it is. We still broke the front 44 on 37s lightfooted at 3400#.

What is the trail weight of your rig?

[aparke4]

I have no idea how much it weighs

I have a lot of tube work but I have removed a lot of the XJ

Once i get it rolling I will take it to the truck stop and get it on the scale

Right now the 39.5's for so well even though they are 18 inches wide. A narrower radial tire would help but the price difference between a 40 and a 37 is pretty substantial. I am just hoping to find a set of 8 lug rims and tires of a mud truck around here. I was going to go hummer beadlocks and military 37;s but that rim combo weighs a lot. DIY beadlocks and steelies would weigh less and cost about the same per wheels: maybe a little more. I know a 40 is pushing the 44 but if it becomes a major problem ultimately a 37 or 38 is a good fit for a 5.13 - 5.38 with the stance of my XJ.

[cracker]

37s on alloys pushes the limits of a 44 :rolleyes:

It is pretty much accepted knowledge that anything larger than 37s on a 44 will work for mall krawlers and mud folks (but you need welded gears and 3.55s to pull it off :D )

What about your rear 60 axle? Is it one of those full float junk yard axles? If so you'd be better off keeping the rear 44 you had in there.

[ROBZ95Xj]

another thing to check is if the rear 60 is 30 spline or 35 spline

[X1994J]

37s on alloys pushes the limits of a 44 :rolleyes:


Maybe for a hillbilly redneck who don't know how to drive, sorry, I have to disagree.

Seems like a lot of guys are having success on 37's and bigger.. quick reference.
http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1040735

[MoparManiac]

Maybe for a hillbilly redneck who don't know how to drive, sorry, I have to disagree.

:rolleyes: Here we go...

Or it's a statement for someone who attempts obstacles that actually require some throttle input and doesn't winch over everything. I'd love to see you come wheel over here where the rocks aren't like sandpaper.

[X1994J]

:rolleyes: Here we go...

Or it's a statement for someone who attempts obstacles that actually require some throttle input and doesn't winch over everything. I'd love to see you come wheel over here where the rocks aren't like sandpaper.

you're right. You wheel way harder than i'll ever dream of. :bawl::wave1:

[cracker]

Maybe for a hillbilly redneck who don't know how to drive, sorry, I have to disagree.

Seems like a lot of guys are having success on 37's and bigger.. quick reference.
http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1040735

Stop being a XXXXing douche and learn to read.

Only one tard on that thread was running 39 and another on 38s.

More misinformation form a XXXXing utard.....

[X1994J]

Stop being a XXXXing douche and learn to read.

Only one tard on that thread was running 39 and another on 38s.

More misinformation form a XXXXing utard.....

Are you stupid, or just cant read? He said 37's was pushing the limits.

from that thread:

ECKSJAY 37's
Bigred 37's
BOX 37's
Jeepme 37's
Myself 38's
Cranium 39's

All with minimum or no breakage.

[kastein]

I see one set of 38s and one set of 39s in that list.

Ever try driving over a muddy rock? It's quite different from a dry rock and wheelspin+bouncing around are kinda required here unless you're on plain old rocks and nothing else.

You guys should probably stop tossing insults at each other though :moon::nono:

[cracker]

Are you stupid, or just cant read? He said 37's was pushing the limits.

from that thread:

ECKSJAY 37's
Bigred 37's
BOX 37's
Jeepme 37's
Moron 38's
Cranium 39's

All with minimum or no breakage.

It IS pushing the limits. 37 is the maximum accepted limit for a 44. It is on the edge hense 'pushing' the limits.

[cracker]

I see one set of 38s and one set of 39s in that list.

Ever try driving over a muddy rock? It's quite different from a dry rock and wheelspin+bouncing around are kinda required here unless you're on plain old rocks and nothing else.

You guys should probably stop tossing insults at each other though :moon::nono:

Good point.

Crappy Interco tires with no traction even on rocks really can't cause enough stress on a drivetrain for it to break.

Might as well run Interco 42s on the 44 then.

Carry on.

[northwestxj]

It IS pushing the limits. 37 is the maximum accepted limit for a 44. It is on the edge hense 'pushing' the limits.

X2. I cannot understand whatsoever how people can say that 38's or 39's is not pushing the limit of a 44. I definitely wouldn't want to go wheeling being so scared i was going to break my front axle all the time.

Oh, and, just because people wrote they have that on the internet doesn't mean shit. Unless you wheel with them, how do you know how hard/how often they wheel?

[aparke4]

ya I am lucky to have access to a trailer and some good stomping grounds once it is built to see how the axle hold up

unfortunately the rear is 30 spline - i already have the carrier and 30 spline lock right so it is staying.

the 39.5's are rollers on rims for mock up and a test ride - The 40 inch tire when geared is on the top end of the spectrum in terms of stress - but my wheelbase with the stress, tube fenders and trim in rear will fit a 40 no problem: i think around a 38 is where I will land. If I do break then obviously I will replace but will slowly replace with chromo/ alloy usa/ whatever aftermarket shaft I can get.

the axles are freshly built, trussed and almost ready to roll. I got my ballistic fab order in so i can make track bars and such at my friend bens house. Hopefully this weekend it might be truly rollling.

I have some more pics I will post up later on.

[foxwar71]

you're right. You wheel way harder than i'll ever dream of. :bawl::wave1:

youre right, he does wheel way harder then you ever will .!.:D.!.


Stop being a XXXXing douche

More misinformation form a XXXXing utard.....

x2434567


X2. I cannot understand whatsoever how people can say that 38's or 39's is not pushing the limit of a 44.

x2 hell, i dont even trust a 44 on 35's most of the time



WHEN I do break then obviously I will replace with a 60.


FIFY :D


the jeep is nice and all, but the axles are toothpick worries that wont really hold up to much. a 30 spline rear 60 isnt much better then a 44 either, the shaft splines and diameter are pretty much the same. dont expect either to last very long with any sorta abuse/useage.

[aparke4]

when i break - got it! haha

no really i got these axles for a killer deal and now i got the coolness of the full width but I will have to work with the axles... in person they are beefy but I know the guts are underrated for most 60's... they are in great shape, trussed and soon to be geared so I will run em hard for a while and see how the hold up

[Begster]

x2 hell, i dont even trust a 44 on 35's most of the time

That's just because you're a tard Ross, you ran 35's on a 30/8.25.

And you really need to stop overusing the flip off smiley.


.!.:D.!.

[foxwar71]

That's just because you're a tard Ross, you ran 35's on a 30/8.25.

Go wheel a beach .!.:D.!.

[foxwar71]

And you really need to stop overusing the flip off smiley.


i love how you edit that in WHILE im typing it :roflmao:

[cmelo]

a 30 spline rear 60 isnt much better then a 44 either, the shaft splines and diameter are pretty much the same. dont expect either to last very long with any sorta abuse/useage.

X2

I blew a shaft the very first time out on 35s. Granted with a V8 and a much heavier rig than an XJ.

As far the argument as to what the tire size limit is for a dana 44 is(or any axle imaginable for that matter). I'll settle this right now. There is no recommended tire size for any axle. I've never seen a "35 inch tire max" warning stamped on the front of a 44. The sky is the limit fellas. Will it hold up? Who cares! Bigger tires look cool.

[northwestxj]

when i break - got it! haha

no really i got these axles for a killer deal and now i got the coolness of the full width but I will have to work with the axles... in person they are beefy but I know the guts are underrated for most 60's... they are in great shape, trussed and soon to be geared so I will run em hard for a while and see how the hold up

Understandable. You got a good deal on them and want to run full width but can't build proper 60's right now...fine. But why not run tires that are the proper size for the axles? Why not just run a set of 35's? Obviously it's your choice and you'll live and learn, but I would just throw on some 35's and be done with it...MAYBE 36's max.

[aparke4]

Understandable. You got a good deal on them and want to run full width but can't build proper 60's right now...fine. But why not run tires that are the proper size for the axles? Why not just run a set of 35's? Obviously it's your choice and you'll live and learn, but I would just throw on some 35's and be done with it...MAYBE 36's max.

huh that really makes sense especially with the 4.10 gears... I found a friend of a friend here locally that can regear for about 400 - gears and install kit will be about 600 for motive or similar quality. The axle parts besides gears will come later... I might get a set of 37 x 12.50 x 16's radial MTR;s that a guy locally is selling in a radial... that would be a good start i assume.

[The Hard Struggler]

My 44.
78 F250 HP narrowed to Waggy width.
Longfield cryo/heat treated 5.13 RP, set up with a great pattern, .0001 to .0002 backlash.
RCV shafts with drive slugs.
ARB diff.


I run 38s very hard with complete confidence.

I will wear out ball joints, but with the RCVs the BJs won't come apart in the very unlikely event of a shaft/joint breaking. When they do the Ballistic Super BJ will go in (if they ever finish the R&D and come to market)

Aparke has a set of axles that he can built to as needed. The rear 60 can be upgraded as well to run big tires. The guys that beat him over the head for wanting to run big tires on those axles should chill out.:)

[asp]

My 44.
78 F250 HP narrowed to Waggy width.
Longfield cryo/heat treated 5.13 RP, set up with a great pattern, .0001 to .0002 backlash.
RCV shafts with drive slugs.
ARB diff.
This thread is so far derailed from its original topic, so I'm going to continue. I'd be shocked if you actually had 0.0001-0.0002" backlash. The gears will expand and contract more than that with heat, nevermind the fact that you'd have a hard time measuring that with normal tools. I think you mean 0.001-0.002", which is still much tighter than spec. I don't think I'd want to run any tighter than 0.005"

[cracker]

This thread is so far derailed from its original topic, so I'm going to continue. I'd be shocked if you actually had 0.0001-0.0002" backlash. The gears will expand and contract more than that with heat, nevermind the fact that you'd have a hard time measuring that with normal tools. I think you mean 0.001-0.002", which is still much tighter than spec. I don't think I'd want to run any tighter than 0.005"

agreed.

[ktm racer 419]

i broke enough front 44 stuff on 36's in 4 months i actually made a statue out of the broken parts.

left coast and no coast wheeling is a totally different ballgame from right coast wheeling.

[Ironmanandy]

This thread is so far derailed from its original topic, so I'm going to continue. I'd be shocked if you actually had 0.0001-0.0002" backlash. The gears will expand and contract more than that with heat, nevermind the fact that you'd have a hard time measuring that with normal tools. I think you mean 0.001-0.002", which is still much tighter than spec. I don't think I'd want to run any tighter than 0.005"

I agree man, Stay between 5-13 thou of backlash.... .001-.002 is going to heat and eat those gears.

looking forward to seeing it all put together.

[kastein]

I agree man, Stay between 5-13 thou of backlash.... .001-.002 is going to heat and eat those gears.

looking forward to seeing it all put together.
X3... put em that close together and you're forcing all the lube out from in between the teeth, will eat the gears far far faster.

[WaXJ_Skier]

X3... put em that close together and you're forcing all the lube out from in between the teeth, will fuse the gears together far far faster.

[aparke4]

no conversation is good - every jeep is different and i can always upgrade the axles themselves piece by piece

ballistic order came in:

I got a pair of tube spikes for front bumper - going to cut off boner bar, weld in a middle piece and use spikes for the cut off tubes... pics to come

also got DOM bushing sleeves for track bar with bushing/ zircs

we have a stick of some 1.5 dom coming for some exo work/ drag link and a piece of 1.5 hrew for track bar/ bumper/ exo etc. and drag link... i think the wall is .120 on both sticks

so soon next week build pics and so fab pics finally!

oh got solid covers with lube locks for the axles spray painted black today - the 60 cover dwarfs the 44 cover!

[JeepAddict85]

welcome to the 3/4 ton xj club...

ive got the 44 front with 1/2" tubes, chromo shafts (except long side, STILL on order), solid drive flanges, and 37's. 4.56 gears in the axles, but 2 transfer cases = lots of stress on components, but i still havent broken anything (5 long trail rides and counting). i dont baby it, but then again i dont purposefully beat the shit outta mine. a lot of it comes down to driver, and what kinda of wheeling you are doing.

i'd be interested in seeing pics as you build it, keep us posted

[aparke4]

welcome to the 3/4 ton xj club...

ive got the 44 front with 1/2" tubes, chromo shafts (except long side, STILL on order), solid drive flanges, and 37's. 4.56 gears in the axles, but 2 transfer cases = lots of stress on components, but i still havent broken anything (5 long trail rides and counting). i dont baby it, but then again i dont purposefully beat the shit outta mine. a lot of it comes down to driver, and what kinda of wheeling you are doing.

i'd be interested in seeing pics as you build it, keep us posted

cool wish it were the full out 1 ton but these will do

I am about done dropping this --> $$ and want to have it trail ready here in the next few weeks

[The Hard Struggler]

My mistake... I did mean .001 to .002. Ha! I was a bit energetic with the zero key!

My experience with tighter than spec gears has been great with the 30 as well as my 44, in my trail Heep. I will agree that on a street driven rig is is a bit tight.

After break in and a couple of easy runs, the backlash tends to open up a couple of thou. My polished 30 held up great for me and continues to serve its new owner well with that same setup.

My .02 :D

Back to our regularly scheduled thread... sorry aparke.

[aparke4]

got some more work done last night with some help of course!

We got the driveshaft lengthened and also got the U joint for jeep to full size u joint pressed in and bolted up

Also we got the rear perches welded and snugged up the rear u bolts so the rear is done sans gearing and solid diff cover but it will drive off the trailor next time we wrench!

I having trouble with one of the long arms - the shank is getting 5/6 of the way in but the is something inside casusing it not to thread all the way up. We wire brushed the inside threads, used a magnet and sprayed some WD 40 in the but there is still something like a burr or a shaving causing it to snag up. The tolerences are very tight on the ironman 4x4 fabs threads so a little more cleaning, etc should get it all the way threaded.

also got the front truss welded up fully

next is to bolt up long arms and get the steering done

pics soon

[asp]

I'll bet you're having a hard time threading the shank in because it shrank when it cooled after welding. Try running a tap through it. Or, if you don't have one that size, get a bolt the same size and grind 2 small slots in it (basically making the bolt a tap) and run that through. Something like this:

http://www.multiline.com.au/~psanders/images/gps_inst/bolt%20as%20tap.jpg

It won't be perfect, but it's cheaper than the right size tap and I'm sure it will get the job done. I've used this trick multiple times. Make sure the cutting edge is sharp.

[aparke4]

I'll bet you're having a hard time threading the shank in because it shrank when it cooled after welding. Try running a tap through it. Or, if you don't have one that size, get a bolt the same size and grind 2 small slots in it (basically making the bolt a tap) and run that through. Something like this:

http://www.multiline.com.au/%7Epsanders/images/gps_inst/bolt%20as%20tap.jpg

It won't be perfect, but it's cheaper than the right size tap and I'm sure it will get the job done. I've used this trick multiple times. Make sure the cutting edge is sharp.

ahhhhh it all makes sense now...

We inspected with a good led flashlight down into the tube which is tapped with no insert but there was some initial heat down towards the bushing for the UCA mounts with could have easily heated the tube up enough to cause such a change. I think my friend Ben might be able to score a tap of this nature but in any case I can buy the bolt and go with you fix... I have no idea how much a bolt of this size and length is going to cost but i think I would rather have the full 5 inches of engagement instead of chop of the end of andy's nice machine work...

Andy if you are reading this a PM is inbound but also if you could answer here as well what is the thread pitch/ size of the shank?

Thanks again for the help guys!

[asp]

I have no idea how much a bolt of this size and length is going to cost
The bolt is going to cost less than the tap, I can tell you that. I figured you had a tube insert welded in... If you just tapped it and welded the bushing on the other end the heat wouldn't effect the other end of the link. It probably just isn't tapped deep enough.

[aparke4]

The bolt is going to cost less than the tap, I can tell you that. I figured you had a tube insert welded in... If you just tapped it and welded the bushing on the other end the heat wouldn't effect the other end of the link. It probably just isn't tapped deep enough.

cool man thanks - the arms were built by Andy at ironman fab and he did did get back with me... it is a 1.5 12 tpi thread pitch and the threads could be short some because that is exactly the way it feels with about an inch left of threads on the shank... either that or that far in the tap did not fully engage so I am going to see if i can track down a bolt long enough and then secondly see if my friend Ben can track down a tap of the stature - i really do not want to buy one that's for sure! I bet they are not cheap...

[asp]

You could probably stick a tape measure down and get a rough estimate on how deep the threads are. I'm not sure what I'd do if I were in your shoes. I'd be tempted to cut the extra inch of threads off. 5" of thread engagement is plenty.

[kastein]

Damn! You're quite right.

McMaster Carr has 1.5-12 taps in both RH and LH thread, strangely the RH thread is more expensive ($165) while the LH is cheaper ($125.) How far in do you need to tap it? The taps they sell are only 6" long overall so if you need to tap in more than about 5" you may be SOL.

[foxwar71]

I'd be tempted to cut the extra inch of threads off. 5" of thread engagement is plenty.

x2 most joints seem to have 2.5-3" of threaded shank

[asp]

The only thing I forgot to mention is that cutting the shanks might screw up whatever heat treatment they have. If you used a chop saw it would probably localize it to just the very end and not effect the temper of the whole thing... Your call. I'd be damn tempted...

[Ironmanandy]

Give me a call tomorrow and Ill pay for shipping it back and fixing it. They have to be full depth threaded because it taps to a stop. If you can send the joint and the arm so that I can be sure what the problem is
Andy
704 796 3502

[PacificEd]

Give me a call tomorrow and Ill pay for shipping it back and fixing it. They have to be full depth threaded because it taps to a stop. If you can send the joint and the arm so that I can be sure what the problem is
Andy
704 796 3502

Now that is awesome customer service! Kudos Andy!

[aparke4]

Now that is awesome customer service! Kudos Andy!

man that is too nice andy - call ya tommorow and we can go from there... i really hope i do not have to send it back and we can fix it over here in MS... i do have some friends with lathes, etc so maybe it just needs to have the tap run through a little more to get past where it "stops"... call ya tom!

[aparke4]

oh snap over 2000 posts - damn.

[Ironmanandy]

Wttool.com has a tap for this application

http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/25147/nm/Industrial_Quality_Bottoming_Hand_Taps_WT_

Its 54.00 They just are not long enough to get a full depth cut. I have an extension on mine for the tubing but I think its just a burr in the thread or something. Get some tapping fluid from your local hardware store. the quart bottles from rigid are normally $7.00. These are super handy to have on hand though for in the future if you take things apart to make changes you can run the tap in everything to clean it all out again.
Andy

[aparke4]

Wttool.com has a tap for this application

http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/25147/nm/Industrial_Quality_Bottoming_Hand_Taps_WT_

Its 54.00 They just are not long enough to get a full depth cut. I have an extension on mine for the tubing but I think its just a burr in the thread or something. Get some tapping fluid from your local hardware store. the quart bottles from rigid are normally $7.00. These are super handy to have on hand though for in the future if you take things apart to make changes you can run the tap in everything to clean it all out again.
Andy

cool man will do - i think i have a bottle of taping fluid somewhere for the drill press but i will check today with my friend to see if we can scrounge up a tap

thanks man!

oh and the other arm threads fine so i think it is a matter of depth like you said

[aparke4]

cool man will do - i think i have a bottle of taping fluid somewhere for the drill press but i will check today with my friend to see if we can scrounge up a tap

thanks man!

oh and the other arm threads fine so i think it is a matter of depth like you said

ben found a tap and tapped the arm again for me - it looks to be the threads on the joint towards the jam nut are being the issue so we are going to borrow a thread file and get the 12 tpi threads in line and run it up tight -> loosen and then repeat till it goes home...

[asp]

Why bother with a thread-specific file? When I have to clean threads by hand I just use a regular set of needle files like these (http://www.harborfreight.com/10-pc-diamond-needle-file-sets-6989.html?utm_term=6989&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase). Just be careful about how you do it.

[Ghost]

Sweet! I knew Andy would get you straight. I was about to tell you to call him. I saw the arms and knew where they came from. Looks good but, when ou do break the front look into the RCV's I was impressed with what I saw at the Crawl so far. I ran the 44 with 36 IROC's and broke a ujoint the first time out. Then the third time out broke a shaft. Tack the caps to the shaft or use full circle clips and it will live a little bit longer IMHO.

[aparke4]

ok so I think i have found my tire wheel set up...

was going to go with hummer h2's but i want to DIY beadlock and the h1 recenters are nice but get pretty heavy so i have read...

so

i am going with a 17x9 cragar soft 8 @ 5 inches of back spacing steel rims with a 37 inch tire in a 13.5 width radial... that way i solve all my clearance problems (no caliper grind) and can DIY beadlock pretty easily in the future... the 17 rim for the time being has a much better lip for holding the tire than the 16.5 rims... the tires are going to be a hodge podge of tires i can get in pairs... might run two maxxis creepys in rear and maybe some procomp x terrains in the front... trying to do on the cheap unless i find a set of 4 for a good deal

also some info on the front HD 44 for any one who cares i found:

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-21911.html

The Dana 44HD is the best of class Dana 44's. The housing is beefier, the tubes are .5" thick walled. The carriers are the same across the Ford Dana 44 all 30 spline and will interchange.,The bolt bolt spindle will interchange with the standard Dana 44. The wheel bearings are unique. The inner bearing is Dana 60 class. The outer is Dana 44 class. The caliper, and bracket for the HD is the same used on the Dana 60. They will interchange. So, no 15" rims on these. The axle shafts from a std 44 are too short to go into an HD. They are about .5" too short, on both sides. The yoke shoulder at the end of the axle will bottom out against the knuckle and still only be half way through the side gears.

This seems to be an area of confusion. Most people refer to all F250 Dana 44’s as Heavy Duty, they are not.
1969-1975 are Heavy Duty axle, but with drum brakes and huge closed king pins. Also in the time the F250 had a small housing, Dana 44/30 sized closed knuckles.

Then the split is 1976-1977.5, which used a large external hub. (Hint this one is the disc brake axle that uses the “dana 60” bearing stated above.

Last is the 1977.5-1979 F250 housing this axle has much smaller lock-outs than the 76-77.5 axle. This axle is often referred to as Heavy Duty, but was never called so by Spicer. (or in the books I have) Sure the housing is much stronger, but I’m still not a fan of calling it a HD axle. (Heck the F100 housing of 73-74 is just has strong)

All of the Ford HD44s made after 77.5 will be high pinion (aka reverse spiral/amboid) gearsets. So they swap. HD D44s made before 77.5 will be low pinion.

And I don't think you can put 15" wheels on any of them. It should use the same brakes as the D60.

[vetteboy]

And it uses the same u-joint as a Dana 30. :gag:

I broke the Spicers regularly on 33's.

:D

[aparke4]

ya ya ya

:looney:

I really really hope i prove all you guys wrong :dunce:

On the other hand we are wrenching tonight so hopefully it should be a roller/ driving tonight!

Pics to come

And it uses the same u-joint as a Dana 30. :gag:

I broke the Spicers regularly on 33's.

:D

[cracker]

ya ya ya

:looney:

I really really hope i prove all you guys wrong :dunce:

On the other hand we are wrenching tonight so hopefully it should be a roller/ driving tonight!

Pics to come

How can you prove us all wrong?

We have all made the same mistakes and are trying to prevent you from doing the same.

[kastein]

How can you prove us all wrong?
my bet is a triple helping of luck, alignment of the planets, and a light right foot.

[cracker]

my bet is a triple helping of luck, alignment of the planets, and a light right foot.

Or spin it at the mall ;)

[JeepAddict85]

my bet is a triple helping of luck, alignment of the planets, and a light right foot.

it seems to work for me. spicer 760s turning 37's...nothing broken yet.

[aparke4]

it seems to work for me. spicer 760s turning 37's...nothing broken yet.

I am going to wheel with 37's so I hope the 760;s hold up as well

[ktm racer 419]

i have never broken SPICER 760's

i have however broken a few outer alloy shafts, some stock outers, a stock inner, some off brand u joints, and a detroit locker in my 44.

i'm back down to radial 35's after running bias 36 and 37's and i'm happier now. Nicer on the street, i'm not afraid to throttle up obstacles, and i have been doing all the same obstacles with the same level of difficulty as I did on the larger tires.

[shortxjdoug]

i dont break the joints..... i crack three caps out every run, even before the 4.7 went in i still cracked caps with a tired old renix. above 35's the d44 is only viable with aftermarket shafts and some type of superjoints.... tims 44 with rcv's is awesome its a super strong axle in a light package thats still more affordable than building a 609...


im trying to say in a nice way the gallery is right, all of wheeled our junk and wheeled it hard and found a continual weak point in it.... yeah at times i like the skinny pedal (didn't put a stroker in it cuz it sounds cool :)) but my breakage is about half and half. half i know i was being dumb while the other half was just normal crawling and light throttle usage

[ColoradoRaptor]

As far the argument as to what the tire size limit is for a dana 44 is(or any axle imaginable for that matter). I'll settle this right now. There is no recommended tire size for any axle. I've never seen a "35 inch tire max" warning stamped on the front of a 44. The sky is the limit fellas. Will it hold up? Who cares! Bigger tires look cool.

Truth!! :lecture:

[aparke4]

update:

got 4 hummer H1 beadlocks 12 bolts with 4 38 inch tsl/sx's that have 75% tread on em for a deal from a local club member... they are 12.5's but the rims are heavy unfortunately but i will run em for a long time

spacers are needed because of the dang seven inches of backspacing even on full width axles

pics soon

[Ghost]

update:

got 4 hummer H1 beadlocks 12 bolts with 4 38 inch tsl/sx's that have 75% tread on em for a deal from a local club member... they are 12.5's but the rims are heavy unfortunately but i will run em for a long time

spacers are needed because of the dang seven inches of backspacing even on full width axles

pics soon

Get some pressed recenters.

[aparke4]

ya i think i understand how to recenter the rims now that I have them in person

the cheaper route is flat centers and then having a steady hand with a torch

also going to get some rock rings for em

with pressed in centers you cut out the inner part of the wheel almost to the studs and then literally press in the new center til it is flush and then weld it in from the back?

just so i can drive it i will run spacers until i get the time to recenter

[cracker]

Should I rename this thread '3/4 Ton and Not going to be Done' ?

[Ghost]

ya i think i understand how to recenter the rims now that I have them in person

the cheaper route is flat centers and then having a steady hand with a torch

also going to get some rock rings for em

with pressed in centers you cut out the inner part of the wheel almost to the studs and then literally press in the new center til it is flush and then weld it in from the back?

just so i can drive it i will run spacers until i get the time to recenter

Yes that is right. the press in one just drop in the flat ones you have to put in and make sure they are not out of alighnment. I did the flat centers. Do the press in ones. It is much easyer.

[aparke4]

Yes that is right. the press in one just drop in the flat ones you have to put in and make sure they are not out of alighnment. I did the flat centers. Do the press in ones. It is much easyer.

cool ya that is what I thought - the BS is around 3.5 to 4 with pressed in centers correct?

[aparke4]

Should I rename this thread '3/4 Ton and Not going to be Done' ?

haha ya might as well

only thing holding any major progress is the control arms which actually need to be shortened - sorry Andy your skills rock but i mis-measured and need to shorten the arms about 2 inches :tears:

trying to get track bar and drag link done tonight... the coils and shocks and arms are on but the coils have too much of a bow in them to be safe so the arms are going to the machine shop the get 2 inches out of the tube taken out and two inches more tapped into the DOM - the joint i had issues with we thread filed and it got run up all but a 1/4 inch so that will be fine... also the lower control arm mounts are going to be cut off and rewelded becasue they are putting the bushing into a bind... we had to get the jeep trailerable becuase i was moving and now we have a bunch of little things done... oh will bleed and get brakes up and going tonight as well

[Ghost]

cool ya that is what I thought - the BS is around 3.5 to 4 with pressed in centers correct?

IIRC the press ones make the BS 3.5"

[aparke4]

cool i think i can afford that shallow of backspacing because my tires are 12.5 inches wide... i have 4 spacers now so until i get everything else done the rims will be next on the list

[Ghost]

cool i think i can afford that shallow of backspacing because my tires are 12.5 inches wide... i have 4 spacers now so until i get everything else done the rims will be next on the list

The spacers are they the same pattern 8 lug?

[aparke4]

The spacers are they the same pattern 8 lug?

yep

front two are no name aluminum and the rear are ballistics

[rweaver138]

I'm diggin this new title

[aparke4]

credit the title to cracker - doesn't he just crack you up?

FYI - the iron rock cross member and 35 inch eye to eye arms are just a little too long - mine will end up in the 33 inch range with the tnt/treks HD weld lower control arm brackets and the bigger tubes of the HD 44

the iron rock x members mounts sit inline with the tranny mount for reference like the claytons, etc...

[aparke4]

just double checking...

i need the 1310 to 1350 u joint to go from jeep drive shaft to axle correct? I am measuring it tonight but wanted to see if anyone knew off hand.

[Ghost]

just double checking...

i need the 1310 to 1350 u joint to go from jeep drive shaft to axle correct? I am measuring it tonight but wanted to see if anyone knew off hand.

If its a 1310 to 1330 joint you are looking for its a 134 at advanced.

[cracker]

Any update on this?

[MoparManiac]

Any update on this?

Didn't you read the title?

"Not going to be Done"

:D

[cracker]

:doh:

[rweaver138]

Didn't you read the title?

"Not going to be Done"

:D

ohhhh ya beat me to it

but buuurn :firedevil


yeah any updates though? :wave1:

[Ironmanandy]

Hey man I have a shorter set of those long arms on the floor ready to go if you wanna send the others back.... They have the new laser cut parts and everything etc.
I know you had asked for a pic a while back. This is a crap pic but you can see the length difference and the 5/16 laser bracket as opposed to the 1/4 hand made.
http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr308/ibuildbigtoys/longarms-1.jpg

[jcshaney]

drive with your head not your right foot is all i have to say

[aparke4]

ya andy it will happaen - those look sweet btw

[aparke4]

so i worked on the heep today for the first time in ages!

got ballistic spacers on 3 wheels - napa only had 8 in stock and is bringing me the last 8 wheel studs on monday for the passenger side rear dana 60 (had to get longer studs to fit spacers on rear - front was ok)

got control arms off to go back to andy at iron man 4x4 to get shortened or swapped out for his XJ long arms... the arms i had him make me ended up being about 3 inches too long and I am JUST getting around to putting them back in the mail! (been busy as all can get out...)

tires are 38 inch tsl/sx - 12.5 wide on a H1 12 bolt hummer rim with ballistic 8 lug spacers - they look too skinny but they have grown on me

just put on warrior tube doors about 2 weeks ago

once arms get back i can get front axle where it needs to be - roll it into garage and get the exo cage work done, track bar, drag link and mount ram for hydro assist ( everything plumbed and ready to rock - just need to mount ram)

here are some poor pics of the sad ole' girl...

http://i52.tinypic.com/vnfqjt.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/e9htlj.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/23h52k9.jpg

and my friend Ben helping with rear spacer

http://i53.tinypic.com/15n0e49.jpg

[aparke4]

oh forgot to add that the rear axle has the disc brake conversion from ruff stuff and the rear axle has been stretched about 7 inches using nissan titan leafs w/o overload pack paired with Andy @ ironmans stress relief shackles

the whole jeep is ugly and needs a lot of body work done but I really am close to getting it to drive for the first time in over a year now... bear with me!

[ktm racer 419]

the way that thing is resting cocked on your lawn and driveway supported by multiple hi-lifts and a floor jack frightens me

[foxwar71]

the way that thing is resting cocked on your lawn and driveway supported by multiple hi-lifts and a floor jack frightens me

:dunno: Thats the only thing?

[ktm racer 419]

:dunno: Thats the only thing?

it is not.

[aparke4]

Ok ya it is ugly and a little scary :eek:

I have the old RK long arms on it now as well as ratchet straps X-ing the front underneath with a grade 10 chain on front in case the axle wants to go anywhere... until i get my arms back from andy it has to sit like this until we are ready to roll it into the garage and get on with the front axle swap

the reason it is crooked is that there is no track bar/ panhard bar installed yet

it really is safe and is sitting on its own weight... the floorjacks were for the rear axle spacers to install

the hi lifts are only like 2 clicks in and are taking some of the strain of the coils and the bushings on the bilsteins

i forgot to get a rear shot but the outside to outside tire measurement will be great... the backspacing of the hummer wheels with the spacers is only a couple inches wider than stock so i will some stance with the stretch but be able to tuck my front tires in for turning radius on tight trails

here are some pics with all 4 wheels on - the front will sit a couple inches lower of course

http://i56.tinypic.com/143gv0w.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/141gkz.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/30d821e.jpg

once i get the long arms back on, the track bar, rear exhaust relocation, rear traction bar mount and exo work done then it is off to my shop to get cleaned up and the TNT truss painted and doors back on as well as rocker replacement (2x6 mod) ... also have a 44/60 pair of solid diff covers to install at some point

luckily the front u joint on the front drive shaft is the same and my front driveshaft will live about the same as stock length... i had extended it a couple inches with my last set up so it will be cut back down

quick question: the lug studs on the rear axle are a 9/16 - 18 and the front axle studs are like a 1/2 -18... axles came out of same truck... any reason why they would be different sizes?

[The Hard Struggler]

I like it. Has a Mad Max look to it.

I'm in the Doraville area outside 285, would love to come by and help if I can....at the very least I can stand around and drink beer!

Shoot me a PM.

[Ghost]

Ok ya it is ugly and a little scary :eek:

quick question: the lug studs on the rear axle are a 9/16 - 18 and the front axle studs are like a 1/2 -18... axles came out of same truck... any reason why they would be different sizes?

Was the rear converted to disk? When I did my rear conversion I had to go to the bigger studs in order for the studs to stay in place. That may be right Front is D44 correct? Rear a D60 ot a 14B?

[aparke4]

rear is a 60 and has been converted to discs

Ghost - not sure if it was a ford thing but I bought these axles from my friend who had them under his YJ and he got them from a guy in south LA where he bought the whole truck and scrapped/sold motor body etc. and kept them axles and rebuilt them... so i am not sure why the front has smaller studs than rear... I had to go with a 3 inch long stud - 2.5 or 2.75 would have worked but napa only had a 3.125 inch long stud in 9/16 - 18 tpi... they barely stock out the spacer so i trimmed them down to 2.9 - 3.0 inches to where the thread started... so I have damn near 100 bucks in lug studs! they were about 4 bucks each and I had to get a few more lugs that were MIA

pic of arms redone by andy @ ironman4x4 fab: he reused my joints - cleaned up the shanks and retapped/ recut the arms via lathe... also he had informed me that he has all new laser cut bracketry! pimp! They are being sent out Monday and have been powder coated! Customer service and communication could NOT be better!

http://i51.tinypic.com/qxum9w.jpg

more to come when they arrive... when they come in I can bolt em up and get axle centered and roll it in to the garage and get the rest buttoned up

[aparke4]

so arms are "in" - as in bolted up and axle about where in needs to be in terms of east to west... rolling it into garage after Xmas to get ready for fabrication... will be nice to have a flat concrete pad forf assembly!

[aparke4]

some old pics for inspiration

http://i27.tinypic.com/nbwxg1.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/2u7a7aw.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/5v4ryw.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/34g3m02.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/538qyf.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2d8gt9l.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/210dl61.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/zxw9ch.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ciosl.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/raornr.jpg

[Ironmanandy]

Hey bud, I got all the specs you sent me tonight.
Ill get everything under way Monday. The bracket and cross brace are done. Just gotta make your Bar.
A

[Ghost]

Hey man hope you get this done and too the Crawl! Andy you must be busy have not heard from you in a while!

[Ironmanandy]

Ugh, so busy.....

[Lowrange2]

You need highsteer arms! :)

[aparke4]

I need your 60's!

[aparke4]

Hey bud, I got all the specs you sent me tonight.
Ill get everything under way Monday. The bracket and cross brace are done. Just gotta make your Bar.
A

awesome - thanks!

[Lowrange2]

The highsteer arms are on sale now! :)

[aparke4]

I just saw this... very very tempting.

[aparke4]

new track bar set up from andy @ ironman 4x4 on hold from powdercoat'er due to snow - should be here this week!

[Lowrange2]

You have 2 weeks. Ya gotta be at Gulches on the 18th.

[aparke4]

soooo......... track bar came - bracket and brace - well, well worth the wait! (dang snow and ice)

i can not say enough good things about the quality and craftsmanship that the boys at ironman 4x4 fab put out... top notch

http://i53.tinypic.com/mvjhwg.jpg

[Ghost]

soooo......... track bar came - bracket and brace - well, well worth the wait! (dang snow and ice)

i can not say enough good things about the quality and craftsmanship that the boys at ironman 4x4 fab put out... top notch

http://i53.tinypic.com/mvjhwg.jpg

Ye ano doubt. I'm hoping to go see him soon with the heep and get a custom one of those!

[5-Speed XJ]

i want one of those

[cracker]

Is that rubber at both ends of the track bar? lastara

[Ghost]

Is that rubber at both ends of the track bar? lastara

I don't believe so. I think its the same stuff that is used in the aftermarket spring bushings and CA and engine mounts.

[aparke4]

a good point but if andy can chime in I am sure he will explain why he uses 88 durometer poly on the ends of my track bar and his other aftermarket control arms. I feel that it will provide sufficient flex for my set up.

couple more pics - tennis ball for reference:

http://i55.tinypic.com/29bmtw.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/1g5fld.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/10h0j8o.jpg

[cracker]

My experience has shown me a TRE or a rod end (a hard joint) on one end resists DW significantly as parts start to wear (even OEM). Most other aftermarket companies seem to do this with their aftermarket track bars.

[87manche]

I would have to agree with Cracker on that.

After a week in Moab Redheep's very similar trackbar had toasted bushings on both ends and had the DW at anything above 35MPH. It actually cost us a day tracking down bushings in CO when the giveaway XJ had to be trailered.

[aparke4]

huh i never even thought about that ... all aftermarket track bars do have a flex joint or heim with a bushing on the other end... the jeep will see street time so i will keep tabs on the bushings

[cracker]

I run rod ends at both ends but the ones I do for others usually has a rod end at one end and rubber or a joint on the other.

Good luck.

[Lowrange2]

You're done, right? You have to be at Gulches at 10am.

[87manche]

I run rod ends at both ends but the ones I do for others usually has a rod end at one end and rubber or a joint on the other.

Good luck.

this is how Redheeps trackbar got reworked, it's now under my junk.

[aparke4]

so ya it is not trail ready by any means...

got the track bar, brace and frame mount bolted up - everything fit 100%! again props to andy and the custom track bar! first time in a year the axle has been centered under the heep - scary i know but it is progress!

but i have run into an issue...

since my long arms are straight, I am having some major binding at the axle end and some at the joint end. The iron rock off road X member I am using inboards the frame side control arm mounts a couple of inches relative to the unirails thus putting everything into such a bind that I do not like it at all... the IRO arms and some other companies put a compound bend in the arm for tire clearance at full lock and ground clearance... so once the heep gets back to my shop I am taking the X member off, going with a stock tranny mount/ x member for now and getting some ballistic heavy duty frame mounts to go on my uni rails (which have the HD engineering stiffeners) just in front of the stock X member bolts. This will allow the arms to be inline with the axle side mounts and the frame side mounts and give me much more thread engagement at the joint end...

now I could angle the axle side control arm mounts or move them inward but i still need to push the axle forward the get the coils to be at the correct angle so by going with new mounts in front of the stock x member i can get everything where it needs to be

with the ballistic wheel spacers, hummer rims and a 12.5 tire I might get some rub from the 38's at full lock but it is all good - not enough to worry about

pics to come

[aparke4]

so this is for sale

i do not have the time to finish it

i got the jeep where it will drive on a trailer but that is about it

the fuel pump power relay is giving me trouble but the fuel guage still works as well as the pump when it has 12 volts

new battery

hydro assist hooked up and mounted to ballitic fab clamp and psc tabs

tnt truss welded 1/2 way (for mock up)

iron man 4x4 long arms with currie joints and adjustable uppers with ballstic fab link mounts

new app off road tcase skid

grade 8 bolts and summit machine misalignments hooked up for the 3/4 heims for the steering (1/4 dom @ 1.5 inches)

hummer h2 rims with 35'' rollers

doors back on with doorless mod

check out the SEC forum for sale/ wanted for pics and more details

[cracker]

'Not going to be Done'


hmmm....some one called that .!. :D .!.

Sorry you are giving up on it.

[aparke4]

hmmm....some one called that .!. :D .!.

Sorry you are giving up on it.

yeah i know you called me out and were right :rof:

I am traveling a lot more and if i had the time I would finish it but not having a place to work on it kinda kills it for me. Also, it is once was a priority and has been on the back burner for over a year even with new parts from iron man 4x4, finally a good set of full width axles, etc...

[aparke4]

Hello from turkey!

I have sold the xj but live vicariously through the footage! Sold to Ricky b and he busted his butt to get it running!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNQwcCKehME&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[jakeWI]

haha. wow. that is an impressive climb

[Stukboy]

Pretty D A M N cool!!

[aparke4]

Yeah I know! And those are slick 35 bfg's
Front is now welded for cheap traction ... Can't wait to see it on real tires.

[rweaver138]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!?

[aparke4]

Haha yeah I rather enjoyed his antics...