Where to buy coil overs???

[Cache96]

I was just wondering where you guys are buying your coilovers? I usually get my shocks from downsouth motorsports out of SD and i just spoke with Sonny the owner and he gave me a pretty good deal on some 14" and 16" 2.5 Kings with coils. I was just wondering where and for how much everyone who has them has purchased them for.

Looking for King 2.5 14" or 16" travel. party1:

[crazyjim]

Bilsteins dude... Bilsteins...

[silverslk]

Bilsteins dude... Bilsteins...

x2 !!!!

[Cache96]

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Bilstein-Rock-Crawler-9100-Series-Coilover-Shock-p-19269.html

Why bilsteins? personal preference? just asking hahah

The only reason i want to go with kings is because i already have rear kings installed.

[h-townxj]

I'm the loser I can't afford them high name brands... Lol it will be FOA on mine and if I don't care for them on the chroakie then I'll throw them on my tj. I definatly agree the other brand are nice if I could run ant of them I'd either run kings or bilsteins

[ratboy93]

kings.... if you have a racer account at kartek they have decent prices... check dexertrangers or race dezert. my second choice would be fox or bilsteins.... but everybodu has there brands i have a pair of foa on my cherokee and they wotk well.

what does everyone hate sway away?

[J Money]

I just jumped on the sway a way bandwagon because of the shorter bodies... but shocks are shocks, pick your favorite color. Just my opinion.

[whooprunner]

what does everyone hate sway away?

The shocks themselves aren't that bad, but they have some quality issues with regards to assembly. Make sure your valving is right and not swapped Rebound <-> Compression.

[whooprunner]

I was just wondering where you guys are buying your coilovers? I usually get my shocks from downsouth motorsports out of SD and i just spoke with Sonny the owner and he gave me a pretty good deal on some 14" and 16" 2.5 Kings with coils. I was just wondering where and for how much everyone who has them has purchased them for.

Looking for King 2.5 14" or 16" travel. party1:

I've bought most of my shocks from King directly. Some of the best deals on their shocks come from the King booth at the Leduc Offroad swap meet.

[crazyjim]

A wise man once said "emulsion shocks are like cooking steak in a microwave." haha. I'll let him chime in if he sees this.

[Cache96]

Well i couldnt afford them either, thats why i have been saving for a few months and now have enough..lol....well i can get the coilovers with springs and 90 degree fitting for under 1,300.. it is way cheaper than other places ive checked.. usually you pay that with no springs.

[silverslk]

A wise man once said "emulsion shocks are like cooking steak in a microwave." haha. I'll let him chime in if he sees this.

I PM'd him Jimmy. He should see this next time he logs in.

As for "shocks are shocks".....not true. Thats like saying cars are cars, pick your favorite color. Yes they all have engines and yes, most all have 4 tires and a transmission but they all don't work the same. Some are Diesel, some are gas, some are 4wd and some arent.......Bilstein actually puts technology in their shocks not just huge cans with lots of fluid.

[tcm glx]

X1000!!


A wise man once said "emulsion shocks are like cooking steak in a microwave." haha. I'll let him chime in if he sees this.

[Skullver]

Bilstein actually puts technology in their shocks not just huge cans with lots of fluid.
King/SAW/Bilstien are all roughly the same as far as piston design, shim design, functionality etc, they are dimensionally different so you can't really interchange parts, but to say they put "technology" in their shocks while the "others" don't is kind of misleading.:). It all comes down to valving and customer service. No experience with FOA, never had one apart.

[Cache96]

Ok, well i already have everything planned out for the front coilover conversion. Now i have a question for you guys, If i leave the spring in and put in say a 2.5 12" shock with resi how would this affect the ride out in the desert? better with coilovers or with spring and a resi shock?
What if i cut out where the shock goes and run say a 14" travel shock and make an "engine cage for just the shock"?

just thoughts in my head... forgive me..hahaha

[grandrunner]

ill let you know. ill be bumped with deaver coils and 11inch fox 2.o up front. this should all be done by the 15th of next month. i lowered the shock mounts on my axle. i have about 6inches of shaft showing. im on the RE coils right now and its a bit soft but jumping and woops feel great.

[Cache96]

Well right now i have 10" fox 2.0's up front and it does great. I just wanted to know how different the ride would be with coilovers compared to how it is now. i would also change the mounting location if i go the shock route.

[J Money]

You probably won't be able to cycle the full 14 inches without lots of work, probably only 12" with a short body shock. I would run a coil and a bypass shock rather than a coilover.

[Cache96]

Wow.. that does sound like a good idea, it will be a really tight fit though..
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c372/cache85/IMG00468-20090615-1946.jpg

[crazyjim]

You've got plenty of room for a bypass. Jeepspeeds do it all day long. The only advantage of a coilover really is packaging and getting more travel.

[GrimmJeeper]

You've got plenty of room for a bypass. Jeepspeeds do it all day long. The only advantage of a coilover really is packaging and getting more travel.

x2

[silverslk]

King/SAW/Bilstien are all roughly the same as far as piston design, shim design, functionality etc, they are dimensionally different so you can't really interchange parts, but to say they put "technology" in their shocks while the "others" don't is kind of misleading.:). It all comes down to valving and customer service. No experience with FOA, never had one apart.

I would have to disagree with you Chris. Putting Bilstein with SAW and King is a bit misleading. King/SAW/Fox maybe but Bilstein has technology.....lets see if we can get some professional experience in here.

[Cache96]

ok.. so what would you guys recommend? I know its up to me in the end i just want to get different opinions from people that have or have seen these setups installed.:yelclap:

[grandrunner]

id go bypass if i had the dough

[Skullver]

I would have to disagree with you Chris. Putting Bilstein with SAW and King is a bit misleading. King/SAW/Fox maybe but Bilstein has technology.....lets see if we can get some professional experience in here.

technology? They all have a piston with bleed holes, they all use shim stacks on either side of the piston for valving, and they all come in a steel can and use orings to seal? What is this "technology" you speak of? It most definitely isn't rocket science! Getting the valving "right" is a whole nother story...

[crazyjim]

Bilstein is doing some cool new things with their shocks. Joel over at Bilstein is constantly testing and figuring out new ways to dampen, cool, and generally make shocks more reliable. Most of it is still in the prototype stages, and you won't see or hear about it. However you'll start to see them on race cars first, as that's where he's testing them all. I haven't seen Fox, King or Swayaway do anything "new" or "revolutionary" in shocks. If you want revolution, look at Bilstein's blackhawk... everything about that shock is revolutionary, and that technology is starting to leak over into their other shocks slowly but surely.

Put it this way, if I were building a race car, I'd want bilstein on my team. Simply for the fact that they strive to make sure you win, hands on.

I'm pretty sure the AGM Class 1 car that overalled at the baja was running a 2.5 shock up front... a 2.5... and never overheated.

[Skullver]

Bilstein is doing some cool new things with their shocks. Joel over at Bilstein is constantly testing and figuring out new ways to dampen, cool, and generally make shocks more reliable. Most of it is still in the prototype stages, and you won't see or hear about it. However you'll start to see them on race cars first, as that's where he's testing them all. I haven't seen Fox, King or Swayaway do anything "new" or "revolutionary" in shocks. If you want revolution, look at Bilstein's blackhawk... everything about that shock is revolutionary, and that technology is starting to leak over into their other shocks slowly but surely.

Put it this way, if I were building a race car, I'd want bilstein on my team. Simply for the fact that they strive to make sure you win, hands on.

I'm pretty sure the AGM Class 1 car that overalled at the baja was running a 2.5 shock up front... a 2.5... and never overheated.

I am just trying to help the op, blackhawks are bigger, have extruded aluminum bodies=fins=more surface area=better heat dissipation, but it still uses a piston, shims, oil and nitrogen, reservior/dividing piston and maybe a few little trick valves etc, and that is great that Bilsteins is working hard on being innovative, I totally beleive you and that is great. But the op asked about coilovers, and where to buy them. Personally I think he would be absolutley fine with any of the 4 big companies, King/SAW/FOX/Bilstein, the off the shelf shocks he will be running are all roughly the same, I think getting any deeper than that here would be superfluous:) Not trying to argue, just trying to stick on topic:), I highly doubt anybody on here is planning on running blackhawks on thier cherokee, although it would be cool to have that kind of coin. Glad you guys have had good experiences with Bilstein, but they are not the end all, pelnty of winning tt's run KING, FOX, Robby Gordon, Revolution, etc etc, but that is neither here nor there:)
Cheers

[whooprunner]

I am just trying to help the op, blackhawks are bigger, have extruded aluminum bodies=fins=more surface area=better heat dissipation, but it still uses a piston, shims, oil and nitrogen, reservior/dividing piston and maybe a few little trick valves etc, and that is great that Bilsteins is working hard on being innovative, I totally beleive you and that is great. But the op asked about coilovers, and where to buy them. Personally I think he would be absolutley fine with any of the 4 big companies, King/SAW/FOX/Bilstein, the off the shelf shocks he will be running are all roughly the same, I think getting any deeper than that here would be superfluous:) Not trying to argue, just trying to stick on topic:), I highly doubt anybody on here is planning on running blackhawks on thier cherokee, although it would be cool to have that kind of coin. Glad you guys have had good experiences with Bilstein, but they are not the end all, pelnty of winning tt's run KING, FOX, Robby Gordon, Revolution, etc etc, but that is neither here nor there:)
Cheers

I agree with skullver. All of the major shock manufacturers have similar technology and not much has changed in the last decade. I do have to say that Bilstein has great customer service for the race teams. We ran them in JeepSpeed in 2004 and they did great! The thing missing from their lineup are 3" shocks comparable to the other shock manufacturers.

[grandrunner]

i noticed you were running wheel spacers in the front. no warping or damaging anything?

[ratboy93]

King/SAW/Bilstien are all roughly the same as far as piston design, shim design, functionality etc, they are dimensionally different so you can't really interchange parts, but to say they put "technology" in their shocks while the "others" don't is kind of misleading.:). It all comes down to valving and customer service. No experience with FOA, never had one apart.


FOA is a mixture of king and fox parts to make one... as in the seals i have a set of 2.5x10" there nothing special but for the price you cant beat them. the piston is black and white different from a king or a fox. when i rebuilt my foa the rebuild kit was odd quality.. the rubber seals were great but the piston ring was very crude i had to clean up all the edges so they would seal better. now the valving. i ordered a .20 stack of shims. basically thats a medium compression and from what they say is there "jeepspeed" valving.. not only are the shims low quality the have a small lip on the edges of the shims from being stamped. i did some light sanding and that was taken care of. the shim specs from foa lingo is a .20 stack well that was to soft imo so i used some shims my buddy had in his shop and from what the math said they are now 35% stiffer on compression and the rebound is about .20? i think i forgot

conclusion= they work well but had to make them work that way.. def wont out of the box. maybe the viton seals will be different but idk..... i would still prefer KOA hahaha King Over All

[RCman]

I think Skuller nailed it, for stuff the OP is going to be running he can't go wrong with any of the big names. Sure there are some sweet quad bypasses and such, but those are out of the realm for most XJ guys. While I've only got a few runs down, but I'm happy with my SAWs.
... Bilstein is constantly testing and figuring out new ways to dampen, cool, and generally make shocks more reliable. Most of it is still in the prototype stages, and you won't see or hear about it. .... What makes you think that SAW/Fox/King are not doing the exact same thing? Don't get me wrong here I'm sure Bilstein makes a great product, but you seem to be clouded into thinking that they are the only ones trying to develop new things.

[Cache96]

Nice talk on shocks guys, this is actually very interesting. Ryan, i have had no problems with the spacers. i have had them on for about 2 1/2 years now.

[ratboy93]

king/fox/saw all do R&D workand are always lookin for a way to better there producttake king for instance.. look at there factory style bypass and resivoir shocks. bolt in on a slightly lifted or stock trucks.

fox... 4.4 5 tube bypass thats an amazing shock that i guarantee that they work as well as a blackhawk. alot of tt run fox. alot run blackhawk too.

saw i dont know what they got going on lol.


they all look for new innovating products... i think bilsteins are just a lil more out of the box

[crazyjim]

I need Joel in here to get technical, but he built me and Tony a set of coilovers specifically for the front of our trucks. They have sort of a speed sensitive bypass instead of a position sensitive to firm up the shocks during rapid compression. This helps Jeeps especially to stay on top of the whoops. It made a night and day difference in Tonys bronco. I can assure you no other company has that technology... Yet. However Bilstein is still the first.

[crazyjim]

fox... 4.4 5 tube bypass thats an amazing shock that i guarantee that they work as well as a blackhawk. alot of tt run fox. alot run blackhawk too.

The fox will not cool as well as the Blackhawk.

Also keep in mind the Bilstein 9100 is a 2.65 vs. a 2.5 from all other companies.

[tcm glx]

I need Joel in here to get technical, but he built me and Tony a set of coilovers specifically for the front of our trucks. They have sort of a speed sensitive bypass instead of a position sensitive to firm up the shocks during rapid compression. This helps Jeeps especially to stay on top of the whoops. It made a night and day difference in Tonys bronco. I can assure you no other company has that technology... Yet. However Bilstein is still the first.



X 2, They are also working on heat exchangers to lower shock body temps.... Now, it may be possible that the other manufacturers such as King/Fox/SAW are working on similar stuff, but I have not heard about it.

The other really cool thing about Bilstein is the willingness they have been putting out to help tune people's rides... that is just GOLDEN!!

[whooprunner]

I need Joel in here to get technical, but he built me and Tony a set of coilovers specifically for the front of our trucks. They have sort of a speed sensitive bypass instead of a position sensitive to firm up the shocks during rapid compression. This helps Jeeps especially to stay on top of the whoops. It made a night and day difference in Tonys bronco. I can assure you no other company has that technology... Yet. However Bilstein is still the first.

Hey Jim, what you are describing sounds like a flutter stack style of shock valving. This style lets you have lighter valving for slow shaft speed and stiffer valving for fast shaft speed. This can be done in any shock regardless of brand. I'd be curious to take apart your coilover to see if this the case :)

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php/48244-Flutter-Stack-VS.-Conventional-Stack-(shock-valving)

http://www.dezertrangers.com/vb/truck-talk/21353.htm

[crazyjim]

I'm positive it's not a flutter stack. Joel designed a valve to accomplish this.

[Skullver]

I need Joel in here to get technical, but he built me and Tony a set of coilovers specifically for the front of our trucks. They have sort of a speed sensitive bypass instead of a position sensitive to firm up the shocks during rapid compression. This helps Jeeps especially to stay on top of the whoops. It made a night and day difference in Tonys bronco. I can assure you no other company has that technology... Yet. However Bilstein is still the first.


where is this "valve"? On a bypass shock the bypass tubes are position sensitve, and the shims are velocity sensitive, so where would one have to put a "valve" to make a shock velocity sensitive? On the shaft, hollow of sorts? On the piston itself? Crack 'em open and take some pics! Until then this statement : "I can assure you no other company has that technology... Yet. However Bilstein is still the first" cannot be made accurately at all! In fact Edelbrock has been claiming they have "velocity senstive" shocks for a while, no they are not the super bling rebuildable race shocks but same marketing principle.

While I like to believe what people say, I know better. Every single pair of rebuildable shocks I have owned I have taken apart immediately and went through them, not hard to do and does wonders for understanding how they work.

And that is wonderful that Bilstein works with folks to tune shocks, but I assure you so do the "others", to the same degree? Who can really say? Can you? My experiences with SAW have been great, they have went above and beyond to help me with anything from valving advice, to actually have them ship my shock bodies in to them so they could remove a super stuck fitting for the resi, free. I bought those shocks used.

I think sharing experiences is very productive, but throwing out unfounded comparisons and such is not really helping anybody, I completely understand you guys like Bilsteins and have good luck with them. I mean yes a Blackhawk may run cooler than a Fox 4.whatever, at what cost and does everybody really benefit from that extra cost? They have extruded aluminum bodies with added fins, very expensive to make them that way, but that is the only reason they run cooler, they function the same. Shocks turn motion into heat by way of friction, so they all create the same amount of heat in a given cycle, but they dissipate it differently. Plenty of folks do fine without them. Racing is expensive, part of the battle is allocating those funds where you will see the most benefit.

I am really curious now, somebody break open them custom coilovers and take some pics please:).

[tcm glx]

Chris, the valve goes in the resi, and is not meant for bypasses, meant for coilovers... Not sure how to explain it other than on a very hard hit, they really help stiffen the valving up in order not to bottom as hard.

As for the heat exhanger, this is a radiator, and goes in line with the resi as well.

I agree that others I am sure are trying new things, and wouldn't knock them. I think Andy, Jim and myself bleed Bilstein just because of the enthusiasum we have been fortunate enough to see from their heads of off road department. I mean, I am the average smo... not running a Trophy Truck or anything like that, but I am fortunate enough to take 1-2 hours of tuning time away from Bilstein on a regular basis to try experimental things on the Bronco, as well as tune them to work well, and I must say, i am very pleased.... the Bronco runs like a bat out of hell (IMO).

Here are some of the pics of things I have seen already on the boards, so i am sure Joel would not be upset if I posted:
Heat Echanger:
http://www.gofastbroncos.com/forum/download/file.php?id=944&sid=df5527f6cc694ec80ec4a2efa33ec64f

http://www.gofastbroncos.com/forum/download/file.php?id=943&sid=df5527f6cc694ec80ec4a2efa33ec64f

Winning setup on a Class 1 Car at the SF250 (Overall winner)
http://www.gofastbroncos.com/forum/download/file.php?id=482&sid=cde380b8f74186307f9b29785c04da58

Another setup similar, this is a bypass, with a resi full of oil to keep temps down, and then a blackhawk resi (the Blackhawk resi is where the technology started for the ACV (secondary valve) )
http://www.gofastbroncos.com/forum/download/file.php?id=489&sid=cde380b8f74186307f9b29785c04da58

[silverslk]

Tony is right to a point. I have been Bilstein before anyone of us (me, Tony or Jim) knew anyone over there or knew what they would do to help people. Hell, I was Bilstein when Tony bought brand new Fox's for his XJ (Which I clowned him for). haha

As for Bilstein, I have seen Joel offer to help tune other guys shocks (not Bilstein) on other boards and I am pretty sure King or SAW would not help Tony with his Bilsteins.

[tcm glx]

Tony is right to a point. I have been Bilstein before anyone of us (me, Tony or Jim) knew anyone over there or knew what they would do to help people. Hell, I was Bilstein when Tony bought brand new Fox's for his XJ (Which I clowned him for). haha

As for Bilstein, I have seen Joel offer to help tune other guys shocks (not Bilstein) on other boards and I am pretty sure King or SAW would not help Tony with his Bilsteins.

Very true on all counts!

[ratboy93]

well as of 1700 i dont think the finned resivoir is legal? im almost positive you cant have any kind of heat exhanger on your shocks

[tcm glx]

well as of 1700 i dont think the finned resivoir is legal? im almost positive you cant have any kind of heat exhanger on your shocks

Rules dont say you can not hav a finned resi either........ :cheers:

[Skullver]

Thanks Tony, I remember seeing those pics somewhere. I still am not understanding this "valve", the resi is there to separate the tiny bit of oil in the res, and the nitrogen which mainly makes up the volume of the res. and the dividing piston moves slightly to make up for the displaced fluid(pressure) from the piston compressing(just laying it out for myself, I'm sure you already know this). So on a big hit you would see a big pressure spike in the res, but I don't see how a valve could open/close in the res itself and do anything? Does it close off the res itself upon a big hit? does it "meter" the oil flow into the res depending on shaft velocity therefore flow rate of oil into the res? Would love to hear some more details, or better yet, see what this valve looks like and where it is!! cool looking little radiator and I like the finned reservoirs, I'm sure they help!

[tcm glx]

Thanks Tony, I remember seeing those pics somewhere. I still am not understanding this "valve", the resi is there to separate the tiny bit of oil in the res, and the nitrogen which mainly makes up the volume of the res. and the dividing piston moves slightly to make up for the displaced fluid(pressure) from the piston compressing(just laying it out for myself, I'm sure you already know this). So on a big hit you would see a big pressure spike in the res, but I don't see how a valve could open/close in the res itself and do anything? Does it close off the res itself upon a big hit? does it "meter" the oil flow into the res depending on shaft velocity therefore flow rate of oil into the res? Would love to hear some more details, or better yet, see what this valve looks like and where it is!! cool looking little radiator and I like the finned reservoirs, I'm sure they help!



Hey Chris,
That is the extent of my knowledge of it..... but my understanding is exactly what you explained.. the valve closes off the fluid to the resi for a quick instance on a big hit.... as for showing you one... well, I will leave that up to the big boys at Bilstein to share.

[tcm glx]

One other comment to add guys, please know that I am sure Andy, Jim or myslef aren't knocking Fox, King, or SAW. Its just that we have all personally experienced first hand a level of support from the guys at Bilstein that is above stanard in my opinion....

Granted, people would not be winning races over and over again if Fox did not make a quality product. Same goes for the others. My big thing has been, I have never seen one of those companies put people on the boards that say:
1) I will help tune for you, free of charge, regardless of shock
2) Let me try some new stuff on your daily driven $3k rig
3) Lets try this out, and if it doesnt work, we can revalve differently for free
4) And this is the best one....... Come over to our trailer, I have an ice cold beer waiting for you all!!


tony

[chris_amrein]

I just saw King has released a 4.5" OD body seven (!) bypass tube Pure Race shock. I realize this has little to do with where to buy coil overs or probably even Jeepspeeds but there was discussions about biggest/baddest and new technology and it looks like King is now the biggest shock out there.

For the record I've never owned Kings or have affiliation with them however I've ridden in a few cars with them on.

[Goatman]

Lot's of good info here. You guys make a good point about Bilstein as a company, and they may be the best and most innovative company, but like has also been said for the average guy buying a coilover all the major brands use the exact same technology. I've become partial to Kings, they are very high quality, and you can run out to Barstow on Wed during race season and get them tuned for free. For someone in SoCal that can take a Wed off and go out there, that is a big deal. Hell, it can be fun just to be out there on Wed. We've been out in the rock buggy along with TT's, race buggies of various classes, trucks of various classes, sand buggies, and Jeeps.

[Goatman]

Thanks Tony, I remember seeing those pics somewhere. I still am not understanding this "valve", the resi is there to separate the tiny bit of oil in the res, and the nitrogen which mainly makes up the volume of the res. and the dividing piston moves slightly to make up for the displaced fluid(pressure) from the piston compressing(just laying it out for myself, I'm sure you already know this). So on a big hit you would see a big pressure spike in the res, but I don't see how a valve could open/close in the res itself and do anything? Does it close off the res itself upon a big hit? does it "meter" the oil flow into the res depending on shaft velocity therefore flow rate of oil into the res? Would love to hear some more details, or better yet, see what this valve looks like and where it is!! cool looking little radiator and I like the finned reservoirs, I'm sure they help!


I can see a valve like this helping, that's interesting. The flow of fluid would be the amount displaced by the shock shaft, plus a sort of pressure wave produced by the fast piston movement. Plenty of pressure sensitive applications where the valve opens under more pressure, but interesting that it closes under more pressure or velocity.

[tcm glx]

I can see a valve like this helping, that's interesting. The flow of fluid would be the amount displaced by the shock shaft, plus a sort of pressure wave produced by the fast piston movement. Plenty of pressure sensitive applications where the valve opens under more pressure, but interesting that it closes under more pressure or velocity.

So let me preface this by once again stating I am no genius, and could not tune a shock on my own for the life of me (probably why I am so pleased to have some support from Bilstein).

The valving was added to my bronco at the New Years Dash in Ocotillo, and the interesting thing was we did a few runs before and after..... and the main difference over a section approxiamtely 3 miles long that we consistenly ran after every change we made was the moment we added the valve (called the ACV), the Bronco's overall behavior change. On any fairly large to really large whoops or g outs, the front end seemed to stay a little higher, and pop over instead of digging into the whole, which in turn made for a much much better ride, overall, when we started to when we finished, I was running somewhere around 8-10 MPH faster on that little section...... Jim rode in the bronco as we did it and I thnk he can attest, the results re great!

[cal]

I can say that as just a general consumer, the service Bilstein has offered me in the past has been amazing. I sent a pair of messed up 7100's in for a rebuild, they came back with new shafts, all new internals, new rod ends, for $60.. they even included a new set of XJ bumpstops and a cute little note advising I should start using them. ;)

..that and the R&D guys at Bilstein are Xj fan's, so how can you go wrong?


..all of that said, I bought SAW coilovers. ;)

[vetteboy]

I haven't seen Radflo mentioned...they do quality work as well, and have been on nearly all the winning Ultra4 cars this year.

I posted this elsewhere, but this was my experience with the shock guys at KOH this year:

Joel at Bilstein gave a (free!) good presentation on shock tuning basics and answered a bunch of questions he didn't have to, almost to the point where it felt like he was giving away some secrets. I then got to spend a half hour or so with him and BroncoLou going over some more tuning stuff, and learned a bunch more.

Glenn at Radflo took the time to 2nd-day-air me an airbump after I blew one up (my fault, the bump dropped out and broke the schrader valve off) so I could finish getting my junk ready for the 5,000-mile round-trip haul. Even though I don't have Radflo shocks, just two of their bumps, he still answered a bunch of questions I had and gave me some help in setting them up to make the most use out of the travel I have. Cool guy.

Spent well over an hour talking to Chris and JD at FOA about their products (which I now have 4 of). The valving he set me up with out of the box worked damn well IMO and he sent me out (also 2nd-day-air) some extra misalignment spacers for free after I lost one and had another that was the wrong width. Both guys definitely care about the product and support.

Didn't really talk to King and Swayaway too much, just in passing in the vendor tent, but they were still very helpful in just answering some questions about how their stuff works and new products coming out.

I'm sure these stories could come from any number of average joe wheelers that were out there. I thought it was pretty awesome all around that these guys will take the time to help as much as they do. Like I said, I've got 4 FOA's on my rig now and I'm extremely happy with 'em, but I wouldn't hesitate at all to trust Bilstein or Radflo in getting my junk running right as well.

As far as FOA goes - mine worked fine right outta the box. To say that they can't or won't is misleading. I also did a ton of research and knew what I wanted as a baseline, and Chris came up with the same thing I did after giving him my rig specs. Could they be better? Probably...but once you start going that route, you're not going to find any manufacturer who will set up every shock dead-nuts perfect on the first try.

Jeepspeed or any spec class is different...when you have a group of pretty much the same rigs, it becomes much easier to have an effective baseline from the start.

[dirtbagXJ2103]

if i had the money i'd run them all but i dont, i live near fox and bilstien. i currently have fox and bilstien shocks on my jeep. if i lived by king i'd be running those. they all work this isnt class one its jeepspeed/DD go with whatever is easy or on sale..

[cal]

if i had the money i'd run them all but i dont, i live near fox and bilstien. i currently have fox and bilstien shocks on my jeep. if i lived by king i'd be running those. they all work this isnt class one its jeepspeed/DD go with whatever is easy or on sale..


... you buy by geography? i suppose that's one way to build..

[dirtbagXJ2103]

yeah i live near off-road warehouse they sell king/fox/bilstien, bilstiens factory is down the road and orw does fox in house. and i scored on some used fox shox if they were kings i'd still buy them. but i do like the little bypass adjusters on jims, so easy. and fox and bilstien both do free first revalve

[RandomThoughtsRace]

well as of 1700 i dont think the finned resivoir is legal? im almost positive you cant have any kind of heat exhanger on your shocks

The heat sink reservoir end cap is legal for jeepspeed.

The heat sink also anchors the Bilstein patented Anti Cavitation Valve (ACV) on some applications and is just a heat sink on others. The heat sink is available on 9100's and can also retrofit onto most older 9100's.

[crazyjim]

The heat sink reservoir end cap is legal for jeepspeed.

The heat sink also anchors the Bilstein patented Anti Cavitation Valve (ACV) on some applications and is just a heat sink on others. The heat sink is available on 9100's and can also retrofit onto most older 9100's.
Woo! There's the man of the hour!

[RandomThoughtsRace]

Thanks Tony, I remember seeing those pics somewhere. I still am not understanding this "valve", the resi is there to separate the tiny bit of oil in the res, and the nitrogen which mainly makes up the volume of the res. and the dividing piston moves slightly to make up for the displaced fluid(pressure) from the piston compressing(just laying it out for myself, I'm sure you already know this). So on a big hit you would see a big pressure spike in the res, but I don't see how a valve could open/close in the res itself and do anything? Does it close off the res itself upon a big hit? does it "meter" the oil flow into the res depending on shaft velocity therefore flow rate of oil into the res? Would love to hear some more details, or better yet, see what this valve looks like and where it is!! cool looking little radiator and I like the finned reservoirs, I'm sure they help!

Not sure how this thread went from where can I buy coilovers to "my shock is better than yours" but along the way someone wanted to know about the Bilstein ACV. I am not here to make claims of whose ir bigger or better rather just here to answer a question and leave the proof to the end users.

The basic concept is that a top hose coilover loses stability at higher compression forces unless there is a line restrictor or sifficient gas pressure to maintain stability. So even though the compression valve stack is setup to deliver increased damping (teired valve stack) this increased damping will only occur with sufficient counter pressure. When the compression force overcomes the gas pressure then instead of the oil going through the piston it will be shoved into the reservoir. If a greater amount of oil than the shaft displacement goes into the reservoir there will be cavitation. The ACV works in time against the main compression valve stack so as forces increase the coilover is actually able to engage the high speed valving already present. Moving the reservoir port to the bottom of the shock can gain this compression effect but it also destabalizes the rebound and since a coilover has a spring wound around it porting from the bottom is not realistic. Basically the ACV allows a coilover to gain the stability of a botom hose without sacrificing rebound stability.

There are some other uses, configurations, and effects related to the ACV but thats a story for another day.

[cracker]

I have had the opposite experience than what Cal has had and I have lost serious respect for Bilstein.

Great product but I have left three messages and for them and never got a call back nor could I get anyone to talk to me on the phone just for some simple questions.

I think I am with Richard and suggest going the King route.

[RandomThoughtsRace]

I have had the opposite experience than what Cal has had and I have lost serious respect for Bilstein.

Great product but I have left three messages and for them and never got a call back nor could I get anyone to talk to me on the phone just for some simple questions.

I think I am with Richard and suggest going the King route.

What is your question? I run the race department but if you have a question about the other product line I will find the answer for you. My direct line is 858-386-5955. - Joel @ Bilstein

[cracker]

What is your question? I run the race department but if you have a question about the other product line I will find the answer for you. My direct line is 858-386-5955. - Joel @ Bilstein

Just a simple valving question for my tow rig and a few recommendations to help me rebuild the 12 7100s in my garage.

I will try calling later today. Thank you.

[tcm glx]

Not sure how this thread went from where can I buy coilovers to "my shock is better than yours" but along the way someone wanted to know about the Bilstein ACV. I am not here to make claims of whose ir bigger or better rather just here to answer a question and leave the proof to the end users.

The basic concept is that a top hose coilover loses stability at higher compression forces unless there is a line restrictor or sifficient gas pressure to maintain stability. So even though the compression valve stack is setup to deliver increased damping (teired valve stack) this increased damping will only occur with sufficient counter pressure. When the compression force overcomes the gas pressure then instead of the oil going through the piston it will be shoved into the reservoir. If a greater amount of oil than the shaft displacement goes into the reservoir there will be cavitation. The ACV works in time against the main compression valve stack so as forces increase the coilover is actually able to engage the high speed valving already present. Moving the reservoir port to the bottom of the shock can gain this compression effect but it also destabalizes the rebound and since a coilover has a spring wound around it porting from the bottom is not realistic. Basically the ACV allows a coilover to gain the stability of a botom hose without sacrificing rebound stability.

There are some other uses, configurations, and effects related to the ACV but thats a story for another day.


Joel, thanks for coming on and answering some of these questions.


On a seperate note, for those who want more details, and an inside look, this months DIRT SPORTS magazine has a 4 page spread on the ACV from Bilstein!