Hear Ye, Hear Ye.....

[PacificEd]

........Mark you calendars as the Crawl has a new home. The SEC BOD have met, discussed and decided and made a decision.

The Cherokee Crawl will be held on July 1-4, 2011 and The Black Mountain Off Road Adventure Area in Harlan, KY is the official home of the Cherokee Crawl.

Friday: general playday
Saturday: lead rides
Sunday: lead rides
Monday: recover and return home

Please come join us for another great year at the Crawl!

party1:party1:party1:

[FlexdXJ]

........Mark you calendars as the Crawl has a new home. The SEC BOD have met, discussed and decided and made a decision.

The Cherokee Crawl will be held on July 1-4, 2011 and The Black Mountain Off Road Adventure Area in Harlan, KY is the official home of the Cherokee Crawl.

Friday: general playday
Saturday: lead rides
Sunday: lead rides
Monday: recover and return home

Please come join us for another great year at the Crawl!

party1:party1:party1:

Wooooooooooooooo! Thats awesome Ed! I will see you then! :party::party::party:

[GoSlowGetStuck]

No surprises there :) Count me in for next year, the Crawl is now one of my mandatory events every year.

[89xjgrey]

Consider the Empire Offroad crew already there.

[POLAR_JEEP_04]

Consider the Empire Offroad crew already there.

x2!

if the SEC guys need any help with it ill volunteer and im sure the rest of my crew will as well

[cabjeepster]

Good choice! Now lets make this one bigger than ever..

[BRIANHO13]

:cheers:

[rredalty]

Good place to ride as well as the time to do so but I gotta say it... This is where I have to think about the SEC and what it has become. I miss the days where the people had a chance to decide where they wanted to ride, not a dictation. Has the BOD thought about the fact that while bringing the MWC closer, they have all but alienated the members of the SEC that would prefer to ride in the SEC? While the '09 Crawl had fewer attendees than the '10, it was a true SEC ride. Do you expect members of this region to leave, especially from the southern states, to go ride out of the SEC? I know it sucks to jump events from place to place but That has to happen sometimes. I might be completely in the wrong here and It's probably only going to be seen by the attendees from the '10 Crawl instead of the members of the SEC but I think this is a poor decision on behalf of the SEC BOD. I'm sure the older members have seen a change in the operations of the BOD and this kind of stuff is the main reason that I will NOT be renewing my previous 2year membership with NAXJA. I cannot stand behind a BOD that I feel is not looking out for the SEC's best interest.

[jcshaney]

WOW

[rredalty]

AGAIN, not saying I have anything against Harlan or the MWC. I think a ride there is a great idea, just not the Crawl.

[FlexdXJ]

Good place to ride as well as the time to do so but I gotta say it... This is where I have to think about the SEC and what it has become. I miss the days where the people had a chance to decide where they wanted to ride, not a dictation. Has the BOD thought about the fact that while bringing the MWC closer, they have all but alienated the members of the SEC that would prefer to ride in the SEC? While the '09 Crawl had fewer attendees than the '10, it was a true SEC ride. Do you expect members of this region to leave, especially from the southern states, to go ride out of the SEC? I know it sucks to jump events from place to place but That has to happen sometimes. I might be completely in the wrong here and It's probably only going to be seen by the attendees from the '10 Crawl instead of the members of the SEC but I think this is a poor decision on behalf of the SEC BOD. I'm sure the older members have seen a change in the operations of the BOD and this kind of stuff is the main reason that I will NOT be renewing my previous 2year membership with NAXJA. I cannot stand behind a BOD that I feel is not looking out for the SEC's best interest.



Winterfest was moved once and it was just not the same from what I hear, that was before I started whoring it up though. Speaking of that when are y'all gonna come wheel with us? :D

As for not renewing because of something like this, I think its just stupid and petty. Wah, you gotta drive a few hours to get there oh well. We have guys who drive 10 hours to WF, EVERY year. and yeah, technically Harlan is in MWC territory by an hour or so. Its far enough south and east that its the closest thing you guys have to Tellico, which I hate to say will probably NEVER get reopened.

[rredalty]

Had I been able to make Jeep work, I would have been there but none the less, wasn't supposed to happen.

[FlexdXJ]

Had I been able to make Jeep work, I would have been there but none the less, wasn't supposed to happen.

Yeah that sucks, mine always has to be working its my only vehicle so I don't know that pain. Bottom line is that black mountain is awesome and the SEC crew can wheel with me anytime. Luckily our big event is a short 2 hour drive for me. Takes me 5 to get to Harlan.

[rredalty]

As for not renewing because of something like this, I think its just stupid and petty. Wah, you gotta drive a few hours to get there oh well.
Drive isn't the issue, I can be at Harlan in 3 hours... drove 6.5 to Alabama the year before. Driving doesn't bother me. What does is the consistant lack of input request from the BOD regarding the SEC.

[PacificEd]

Good place to ride as well as the time to do so but I gotta say it... This is where I have to think about the SEC and what it has become. I miss the days where the people had a chance to decide where they wanted to ride, not a dictation. Has the BOD thought about the fact that while bringing the MWC closer, they have all but alienated the members of the SEC that would prefer to ride in the SEC? While the '09 Crawl had fewer attendees than the '10, it was a true SEC ride. Do you expect members of this region to leave, especially from the southern states, to go ride out of the SEC? I know it sucks to jump events from place to place but That has to happen sometimes. I might be completely in the wrong here and It's probably only going to be seen by the attendees from the '10 Crawl instead of the members of the SEC but I think this is a poor decision on behalf of the SEC BOD. I'm sure the older members have seen a change in the operations of the BOD and this kind of stuff is the main reason that I will NOT be renewing my previous 2year membership with NAXJA. I cannot stand behind a BOD that I feel is not looking out for the SEC's best interest.

Your comments are very disappointing, yet not surprising. I had to justify Morris Mountain to you also.

I may hurt your feelings here but it gets frustrating when those who complain offer absolutly no help in planning and making an event work. You are put out, so quit. That's the easy way out. Or you can become part of the solution and help grow the SEC.

I hate to tell people this, but I eat, breathe and live the Crawl for months before it takes place. Mark lives it with me since we often eat lunch together since we work together and we are always brainstorming and trying to make sure everything goes perfect. I'm sure he will agree that I drive him nuts. The BOD spends a lot of time trying to be sure everything will go as it should. The Crawl is the SEC's premier event and it is our chance to showcase some great trails and great riding. Having a great raffle, good meals, great trails, and facilities are all part of making this event happen.

Matt, I hate to tell you this but it wasn't uncommon years ago for there to be lots of people from outside the chapter attending the Crawl. MWC guys have always supported the event.

There are so many factors that play into planning an event that you have no idea about. We asked for volunteers and found no offers. BrianHO13 actually helped the SEC make this a great event and without his help as a trail leader, we would have had some serious struggles. We already have guys wanting to help for the next event. This only improves the Crawl and makes it better for everyone. The SEC learned a lot about the trail system and what we can plan for next year. There will be more smaller rides. We needed a place where everyone can have a great time, not just the super-duper wheeling machines, but stockers and mildly built rigs too.

You know, I really try to do a good job as President of this Chapter. Now if my skills are not up to task, I can be replaced this December when we have elections for the SEC BOD. Replace me if you don't like what I and the BOD have done. We can do polls all day long and get no where. To build an event you have to have a foundation and this BOD decided if we wanted a successful event it needed a home.

For those who attended the Crawl, most if not all had great things to say. It was a great experience and many new friends were made. Names were put to faces. By making this announcement now, it gives people time to save and plan for this event a full year in advance. We want more to come and find out why the Crawl is a fun place to be during the 4th of July weekend.

[rredalty]

Your comments are very disappointing, yet not surprising. I had to justify Morris Mountain to you also.
However I showed, just like I showed to Harlan the year before and to Tellico years before that. My complaint wasn't the location as much as it was the DICTATION that this is where we are going to ride instead of the option. If you remember the first crawl you had attended, It was decided by the SEC as a whole to try riding at Harlan.

I may hurt your feelings here but it gets frustrating when those who complain offer absolutly no help in planning and making an event work. You are put out, so quit. That's the easy way out. Or you can become part of the solution and help grow the SEC. How many times did we have the long drawn out conversations about how to help and improve the SEC? Hell Ed, I was one of the few that brought up you even taking the position of office before elections. I told you I'd give you my opinion wether you like it or not as I have many times. As far as I can see, you are only interested in what gets said in that little BOD forum and nothing from the members you represent.


There are so many factors that play into planning an event that you have no idea about. We asked for volunteers and found no offers. BrianHO13 actually helped the SEC make this a great event and without his help as a trail leader, we would have had some serious struggles. We already have guys wanting to help for the next event. This only improves the Crawl and makes it better for everyone. The SEC learned a lot about the trail system and what we can plan for next year. There will be more smaller rides. We needed a place where everyone can have a great time, not just the super-duper wheeling machines, but stockers and mildly built rigs too.I have been here much longer than you, I know what goes into these events. I think it's great that Brian was able to be such a big help but I see no reason he wouldn't, Harlan is in his chapter, he should be familiar with riding these places. I don't think you have a clue as to what's available in the SEC to ride as far as parks go. Where is it you have been and had such a bad time that makes you want to journey out of the SEC to host the SEC CHEROKEE CRAWL and why not let the members of the SEC decide where they want to spend their summer vacation wheeling and with friends like so many do?

[PacificEd]

However I showed, just like I showed to Harlan the year before and to Tellico years before that. My complaint wasn't the location as much as it was the DICTATION that this is where we are going to ride instead of the option. If you remember the first crawl you had attended, It was decided by the SEC as a whole to try riding at Harlan.

How many times did we have the long drawn out conversations about how to help and improve the SEC? Hell Ed, I was one of the few that brought up you even taking the position of office before elections. I told you I'd give you my opinion wether you like it or not as I have many times. As far as I can see, you are only interested in what gets said in that little BOD forum and nothing from the members you represent.


I have been here much longer than you, I know what goes into these events. I think it's great that Brian was able to be such a big help but I see no reason he wouldn't, Harlan is in his chapter, he should be familiar with riding these places. I don't think you have a clue as to what's available in the SEC to ride as far as parks go. Where is it you have been and had such a bad time that makes you want to journey out of the SEC to host the SEC CHEROKEE CRAWL and why not let the members of the SEC decide where they want to spend their summer vacation wheeling and with friends like so many do?

Dictation and direction are two different things. We found that lack of direction and making firm plans is very difficult when dealing with a Chapter of this size. No event will please everyone. We found by selecting locations and dates, that many members worked with those dates and locations and planned accordingly. Members made plans to attend the events that were important to them.

I know you have been around here longer but Ghost has been here from the beginning. He has helped, along with other seasoned members of NAXJA, us figure out the direction we needed to go.

Since you have been here so long, how many events have you actively been a part of planning and coordinating in the SEC? I'm not talking about attending, but actually doing the homework it requires to make an event happen.

As far as Morris Mountain goes. I remember you saying this venue was not acceptable and were on the phone calling other off road parks in Alabama. If Grey Rock had been open, you would have left and tried to take several others with you. In the end, after questioning the BOD's reasoning for choosing Morris Mountain, you stayed and said you had a great time.

I can't please everyone. The SEC is a huge Chapter and finding an off road park that can accomodate ALL members who wish to attend is very important. There are so many factors that play on this and not many parks fit the bill.

Matt, I asked for volunteers and no one responded. I appreciate your comments and hopefully everyone will make the best decision for themselves.

[FlexdXJ]

Drive isn't the issue, I can be at Harlan in 3 hours... drove 6.5 to Alabama the year before. Driving doesn't bother me. What does is the consistant lack of input request from the BOD regarding the SEC.

I don't want to turn it into a pissing match man, I like that they made Harlan the permanent home for the crawl. If you don't well then so be it. Can't we all just get along?! :D

[BRIANHO13]

Matt I love you man but I think we might have to talk Ghost into giving up the whinebag......... .!.:D.!.


I motion to give KY to the SEC, we all know that's where it belongs anyway.

[Ghost]

Your comments are very disappointing, yet not surprising. I had to justify Morris Mountain to you also.

I may hurt your feelings here but it gets frustrating when those who complain offer absolutely no help in planning and making an event work. You are put out, so quit. That's the easy way out. Or you can become part of the solution and help grow the SEC.

I hate to tell people this, but I eat, breathe and live the Crawl for months before it takes place. Mark lives it with me since we often eat lunch together since we work together and we are always brainstorming and trying to make sure everything goes perfect. I'm sure he will agree that I drive him nuts. The BOD spends a lot of time trying to be sure everything will go as it should. The Crawl is the SEC's premier event and it is our chance to showcase some great trails and great riding. Having a great raffle, good meals, great trails, and facilities are all part of making this event happen.

Matt, I hate to tell you this but it wasn't uncommon years ago for there to be lots of people from outside the chapter attending the Crawl. MWC guys have always supported the event.

There are so many factors that play into planning an event that you have no idea about. We asked for volunteers and found no offers. BrianHO13 actually helped the SEC make this a great event and without his help as a trail leader, we would have had some serious struggles. We already have guys wanting to help for the next event. This only improves the Crawl and makes it better for everyone. The SEC learned a lot about the trail system and what we can plan for next year. There will be more smaller rides. We needed a place where everyone can have a great time, not just the super-duper wheeling machines, but stockers and mildly built rigs too.

You know, I really try to do a good job as President of this Chapter. Now if my skills are not up to task, I can be replaced this December when we have elections for the SEC BOD. Replace me if you don't like what I and the BOD have done. We can do polls all day long and get no where. To build an event you have to have a foundation and this BOD decided if we wanted a successful event it needed a home.

For those who attended the Crawl, most if not all had great things to say. It was a great experience and many new friends were made. Names were put to faces. By making this announcement now, it gives people time to save and plan for this event a full year in advance. We want more to come and find out why the Crawl is a fun place to be during the 4th of July weekend.

Well said. This was my 8th consecutive Crawl. I have wheeled in several places with and without NAXJA all over the SE. The only places I have not hit up are either over priced IMHO or just too far at this time in my life/financial situation. I firmly believe that KY is southern. Tellico was/is the best place in the South to wheel. Of all the places I have been nothing has the facilities and amount of easy/moderate trails as Harlan. I stand behind this decision 100% and know how much is involved in getting all this together. I for one appreciate Ed's leadership and ability to do it and put up with all the BS that goes with this clubs nitpickers. Isn't making decisions like this why we elect a BOD? To represent us and organize the Chapter so that it and the event can grow? Even if we put a thread up it would have been like all the rest. Maybe here maybe there. Ed, Mark and I have spent a lot of time talking about this and other issues. Ed and Mark put together one hell of a raffle this year.

Matt I love you man but I think we might have to talk Ghost into giving up the whinebag......... .!.:D.!.


I motion to give KY to the SEC, we all know that's where it belongs anyway.

LOL! You know where my vote goes. But she do make a nice trail buddy! :eek: :gee:

[hanaxj87]

Great to Hear the Crawl will be back in Harlan. Now, I have two great NAXJA events to attend next year.

Nick

[jeepgeek2002]

by then Avon will be able to attend and even mrs crawler will be out there showing the "boys" that women drivers are good too!

Mark

[Ghost]

by then Avon will be able to attend and even mrs crawler will be out there showing the "boys" that women drivers are good too!

Mark

Sorry Mark but the women driver showing up the boys has been done. Anyone at that particular Crawl will know what I'm referring to.

[PacificEd]

However I showed, just like I showed to Harlan the year before and to Tellico years before that. My complaint wasn't the location as much as it was the DICTATION that this is where we are going to ride instead of the option. If you remember the first crawl you had attended, It was decided by the SEC as a whole to try riding at Harlan.


Read here for the voting results from 2008.


http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=940060&highlight=Crawl+2008

"I don't think you have a clue as to what's available in the SEC to ride as far as parks go."

I just noticed this quote from above. So I got to thinking where all I've wheeled. So here is where I've been:

Wooley's, Coppenger's Cove, Golden Mountain, Aetna, Windrock, Harlan, LBL (Turkey Bay), Morris Mountain, and Tellico. Many of those places more than once. In some I was a passenger.

In the end, I've seen a lot of places and experienced them. I would be willing to bet I've wheeled a fair amount of places by most peoples standards.

Also when you consider that Glenn and Mark have experience with parks that I don't and you collectively compile that, I think we make pretty good decisions.

[jeepgeek2002]

Sorry Mark but the women driver showing up the boys has been done. Anyone at that particular Crawl will know what I'm referring to.

Since Dawn and I would hang out with Travis and Michelle nearly every month at his shop in Blue Ridge... i guess you re refering to Michele's XJ....

You got a point ... one day my wife will be as famous as Michelle

Mark

[jeepgeek2002]

oh,,,,and AVON>? i bought it from Travis... lol but she was green with silver flaires

[87manche]

meh, I won't let my wife wheel my junk, she'll make me look bad. Ask the MWC fellas.

[GoSlowGetStuck]

meh, I won't let my wife wheel my junk, she'll make me look bad. Ask the MWC fellas.

What, is she too nice to it? Seeing how mild-mannered she is, and how you beat the shiz outta your Jeep...

[shortxjdoug]

Sorry Mark but the women driver showing up the boys has been done. Anyone at that particular Crawl will know what I'm referring to.

i was at the crawl where michelle dropped the driveshaft/axlshaft/ and some other catastrophe that earned her the carnage award....... in fact i think those are parts of her xj on that hunk of junk in my kitchen

[Ghost]

Since Dawn and I would hang out with Travis and Michelle nearly every month at his shop in Blue Ridge... i guess you re refering to Michele's XJ....

You got a point ... one day my wife will be as famous as Michelle

Mark

Ahhh you know the teacher well then....

oh,,,,and AVON>? i bought it from Travis... lol but she was green with silver flaires

Good person to buy from with an upstanding rep. I really hated to see them go under. I did not realize you knew them since they rarely come on here.

[Ghost]

i was at the crawl where michelle dropped the driveshaft/axlshaft/ and some other catastrophe that earned her the carnage award....... in fact i think those are parts of her xj on that hunk of junk in my kitchen

Yes. Yes they are. :clap:

[jeepgeek2002]

Ahhh you know the teacher well then....



Good person to buy from with an upstanding rep. I really hated to see them go under. I did not realize you knew them since they rarely come on here.

From what i heard.. Travis applied for a job in New Mexico for Border Patrol.. they never called him for the job.. they ended up losing the business and moving back to FL. I remember Travis saying something along the lines they were going to sell cars again and one day we ll see him on here again.like i said.. it was hear say...

[Ghost]

From what i heard.. Travis applied for a job in New Mexico for Border Patrol.. they never called him for the job.. they ended up losing the business and moving back to FL. I remember Travis saying something along the lines they were going to sell cars again and one day we ll see him on here again.like i said.. it was hear say...

Yep. That is perty much what he told me last time I talked to him.

[POLAR_JEEP_04]

I'm going to agree with ho. Ed you should look in to taking KY. As for the whole dictate thing... It was decided by the SEC BOD based on input from your fellow SEC members as well as MWC members. I know the MWC input doesn't count but based on the success of MWC events I would think our advice would be good advice. There is nothing any chapter pres can do to please all of their members.

[shortxjdoug]

I'm going to agree with ho. Ed you should look in to taking KY. As for the whole dictate thing... It was decided by the SEC BOD based on input from your fellow SEC members as well as MWC members. I know the MWC input doesn't count but based on the success of MWC events I would think our advice would be good advice. There is nothing any chapter pres can do to please all of their members.


i appreciate mwc input into our chapter, the purpose of having a "national" event is to get more than just your own chapter involved right? plus i love meetin new people, and especially like meeting people in person that i talk to over the interweb of naxja

[Mr.Shrek]

Now not to rehash or bring up a bad topic but....

I can see both sides of it pretty clearly. On one side you have a group of people that are going to miss out cause it is way to far away. There are the purists that think the numbero uno trip for the SEC should be in....the SEC. Having it closer to home makes the drive time doable, the gas less, and the trip cheaper. Granted you going to be far away from someone 100% of the time. So there is the local focal view.
Now for the big wig BOD (now that is said with love for well at least 2 of the guys I know and for one who can't be half bad since we have the same name): Your trying to please a whole group of people when a class of ride from stock - built to the hilt rigs. Finding a venue that can support all of those with quality wheeling for 2 days is tough. Let alone enough camping/lodging to hold everyone, with a close enough town for food, water, support, parts etc. Polls for real info on naxja suck plain and simple. No input is really given and those who do chime in often don't step in.
I think it stinks that there is not a central park in the SEC that would support all of those items. Perhaps we as local focal need to support/demand more from the parks close to home. They can only grow if they have the right money coming in. You want rides in your area...yep I sure do. Round your local guys up, find a park you want to see grow, and I bet if you go talk to the owner they would love the help with cutting/fixing trails. Oh and to the BOD's I didn't forget about a tip for y'all. Make a list of the roles you need volunteers to step into as well as a full "job description" so people can tell fully if it's in their capabilities. Just a few ideas and support to both sides of the argument

People keep &itching, BOD keep listening, and let's all keep wheelin.

:D See now don't we all feel better.

Your neighborhood Ogre,
Mr.Shrek

[87manche]

What, is she too nice to it? Seeing how mild-mannered she is, and how you beat the shiz outta your Jeep...

if you think I love to beat on it.....

you should have seen her wheel a stock XJ on 31's at Attica.
Tire smoke and shit.
It's not like she has to fix it herself.

[Team Willys]

I do agree with Matt about it being in the SEC, BUT... if not Harlan, where? I mean, I feel it's safe to say that everyone on this entire website wishes Tellico was never closed. It was a world known location that was a great place for people to enjoy themselves outdoors. The problem with the South East is that there are few locations that offer adequate facilities, trails, obstacles, parking, etc to host an event like the crawl. Take Morris Mountain for example... Matt and myself, as well as many others with well built rigs had a ton of stuff to do. There were a lot of obstacles that kept us really busy. Heck, I think that is the tiredest I have ever been after a wheeling trip! But, there weren't that many trails and stockers were very limited on what they could do. A lot of places are that way now. I call them obstacle parks because thats really all there is to do.

The other place for the Crawl would have been Windrock. The problem there is that most people, especially those with large families simply cannot afford it. $17 per person per day adds up very quickly. For me its not that big of a deal b/c I always get a year pass, but that's impossible and often pointless for people who live further away.

I'm not siding with anybody here. Like Matt said I don't really like that it's out of the SEC, but in Ed's defense this subject was brought up at the meal in Harlan, and most of the attending SEC agreed that it was where the Crawl should be held. I too like the park, but it does suck that its not even in our part of the country, technically. But the simple fact is: It's Cheap, great wheeling with adequate facilities to support the event. And from what the owner told us, the facilities will be A LOT better next year. Yeah, it does suck that Tellico is gone, but we have to move on.

If not Harlan, then where? Where can we carry out this event that will provide everybody with something fun to do and not break the bank? Harlan wouldn't be my FIRST choice for me personally, but when you consider the entire SEC (remember there are a lot of families and less built jeeps, not everyone is like us cool kids with big tires, LOL!) I really can't think of anywhere else that suits the needs of the event.

[87manche]

Well said Tyler.

Windrock sounds like a cool place, and it's not any farther for me to drive, but I have a problem with charging for passengers in the vehicle, especially at full rates. That would really hurt the people trying to bring families along.

I think that Harlan, while not perfect, is a really good fit for the event. It's reasonably affordable and accessible for everyone from stock to rediculous.

[RedHeep]

Someday everyone will realize that events have to be centered around places to wheel. We get more and more stuff taken away every year. It's not about the boundaries of a chapter.

The geographical boundaries of states do not translate into a chapter, in real life. It looks great on a map, but concentrations of guys that do what we like to do are always centered around places to wheel.

When Tellico was the unoffical home of the crawl, it was still a 20 hour drive from Florida. Or 12 hours from the gulf coast. Or 12 hours from the eastern part of Virginia. People came or they didn't, but not because of where it was, but because they wanted to participate. Moving the event to their driveway won't make them want to participate anymore than moving it 1000 miles away will.

Moving the crawl to Harlan hasn't changed the people who will show up there, because the same people that lived and breathed the Crawl in Tellico are the ones that are showing up to Harlan. It's not about alienating the SEC's members, it's about creating events to go wheeling.

Ed told me that he couldn't even get Alabama guys to come to Morris Mountain. They bitch and whine about having to drive to Tellico or Harlan, but when it's in their backyard, they don't come either. That tells me it's not about location, it's about desire.

In 5 years, people will drive 20 hours to come to the Crawl at Harlan, just like I do for Winterfest. But that won't happen if you don't pick a great place to wheel, on a consistent weekend, for a set group of volunteers. Ed did just that, now there's nowhere to go but up.

If you're not going to support NAXJA because you think putting the Crawl in a place 3 hours from your house is wrong, I sure wish I had your problem.

[FlexdXJ]

Someday everyone will realize that events have to be centered around places to wheel. We get more and more stuff taken away every year. It's not about the boundaries of a chapter.

The geographical boundaries of states do not translate into a chapter, in real life. It looks great on a map, but concentrations of guys that do what we like to do are always centered around places to wheel.

When Tellico was the unoffical home of the crawl, it was still a 20 hour drive from Florida. Or 12 hours from the gulf coast. Or 12 hours from the eastern part of Virginia. People came or they didn't, but not because of where it was, but because they wanted to participate. Moving the event to their driveway won't make them want to participate anymore than moving it 1000 miles away will.

Moving the crawl to Harlan hasn't changed the people who will show up there, because the same people that lived and breathed the Crawl in Tellico are the ones that are showing up to Harlan. It's not about alienating the SEC's members, it's about creating events to go wheeling.

Ed told me that he couldn't even get Alabama guys to come to Morris Mountain. They bitch and whine about having to drive to Tellico or Harlan, but when it's in their backyard, they don't come either. That tells me it's not about location, it's about desire.

In 5 years, people will drive 20 hours to come to the Crawl at Harlan, just like I do for Winterfest. But that won't happen if you don't pick a great place to wheel, on a consistent weekend, for a set group of volunteers. Ed did just that, now there's nowhere to go but up.

If you're not going to support NAXJA because you think putting the Crawl in a place 3 hours from your house is wrong, I sure wish I had your problem.


Yeah, what he said.


I also looked on Google maps yesterday. Its 40 miles out of the SEC, 40 miles isn't that much when you are already driving 5+ hours to get there. Ed and I talked about this same thing Saturday when I was chauffering him around the mountain.

[Team Willys]

Red, I understand the situation of locating it around somewhere nice to wheel, and I agree 100%. If you don't pick a good place, nobody would drive at all, even if its next door. The only argument that I could possibly see is that out of all of the naxja events, the crawl is the only one that is not held in the sponsoring chapter (as far as I am aware, is this correct?). Its not a big deal to me at all. I will continue to come and have a great time enjoying the wilderness with my friends. Although, to some extent the distances do matter. Lol, I don't see much "crawl"ing going on on this side of the country. Maybe we should hold the event in Moab that way we can all drive on sand paper! J-K. I wouldn't drive all the way there every year, but it would be fun to do. The point I am trying to make is that ideally, the event should be held central to a chapter so that even the people who are furthest away Don't have to drive THAT far. Imagine driving from Key west to Harlan... Wow. Unfortunately, like I mentioned earlier, there simply isn't anywhere central to our chapter that can support the event adequately.

Its just a shame that all the good places keep getting closed.

[PacificEd]

We are working on planning a nice event deeper in the South as we speak. So we will have a fun event for those who cannot or do not want to travel to the Crawl.

[Ghost]

Someday everyone will realize that events have to be centered around places to wheel. We get more and more stuff taken away every year. It's not about the boundaries of a chapter.

The geographical boundaries of states do not translate into a chapter, in real life. It looks great on a map, but concentrations of guys that do what we like to do are always centered around places to wheel.

When Tellico was the unoffical home of the crawl, it was still a 20 hour drive from Florida. Or 12 hours from the gulf coast. Or 12 hours from the eastern part of Virginia. People came or they didn't, but not because of where it was, but because they wanted to participate. Moving the event to their driveway won't make them want to participate anymore than moving it 1000 miles away will.

Moving the crawl to Harlan hasn't changed the people who will show up there, because the same people that lived and breathed the Crawl in Tellico are the ones that are showing up to Harlan. It's not about alienating the SEC's members, it's about creating events to go wheeling.

Ed told me that he couldn't even get Alabama guys to come to Morris Mountain. They bitch and whine about having to drive to Tellico or Harlan, but when it's in their backyard, they don't come either. That tells me it's not about location, it's about desire.

In 5 years, people will drive 20 hours to come to the Crawl at Harlan, just like I do for Winterfest. But that won't happen if you don't pick a great place to wheel, on a consistent weekend, for a set group of volunteers. Ed did just that, now there's nowhere to go but up.

If you're not going to support NAXJA because you think putting the Crawl in a place 3 hours from your house is wrong, I sure wish I had your problem.

X2! I think Josh hit the nail on the head. In the South we have fewer places that can actually accomadate this event IMHO.

[Spawn 93]

We are working on planning a nice event deeper in the South as we speak. So we will have a fun event for those who cannot or do not want to travel to the Crawl.

What is planting a nice??? Fixed it for ya since I can't spell

Anyhow, I applaud Ed, Mark, and Glenn for taking the criticism from some and always pleasing the masses. If they are on the ballot again this Dec, I will support them. I can understand, however, if they choose to distance themselves from the responsibilities of the BOD. I remember when I joined this forum, there was a "poll" on about where to wheel for "x". Can't remember exactly, but the poll was split so that there wound up being two events at the same time. Pointless if you ask me.

I have been a member for a short time, but I have been around the world and back a few times, and know that without any leadership, things fall apart. Support those we elected, especially since we nominated them.

The greener grass on the other side of the fence still has to be mowed....

[Spawn 93]

BTW, I would love to offer any assistance needed in planning and conducting this event or any others for that matter. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help!!!

[PacificEd]

BTW, I would love to offer any assistance needed in planning and conducting this event or any others for that matter. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help!!!

We will definately be taking people up on their offers to help with next years event. Thanks for volunteering!

[jeepgeek2002]

i was thinking..
a photocopy of the map.. or "home made" map.. 3 different colors indicating easy medium and hard groups mapped out ahead of time, for those that are running easy trails but want to do something harder can switch and know what trails the other groups are running.. and vice versa?

mark

[kastein]

Someday everyone will realize that events have to be centered around places to wheel. We get more and more stuff taken away every year. It's not about the boundaries of a chapter.

The geographical boundaries of states do not translate into a chapter, in real life. It looks great on a map, but concentrations of guys that do what we like to do are always centered around places to wheel.

When Tellico was the unoffical home of the crawl, it was still a 20 hour drive from Florida. Or 12 hours from the gulf coast. Or 12 hours from the eastern part of Virginia. People came or they didn't, but not because of where it was, but because they wanted to participate. Moving the event to their driveway won't make them want to participate anymore than moving it 1000 miles away will.

Moving the crawl to Harlan hasn't changed the people who will show up there, because the same people that lived and breathed the Crawl in Tellico are the ones that are showing up to Harlan. It's not about alienating the SEC's members, it's about creating events to go wheeling.

Ed told me that he couldn't even get Alabama guys to come to Morris Mountain. They bitch and whine about having to drive to Tellico or Harlan, but when it's in their backyard, they don't come either. That tells me it's not about location, it's about desire.

In 5 years, people will drive 20 hours to come to the Crawl at Harlan, just like I do for Winterfest. But that won't happen if you don't pick a great place to wheel, on a consistent weekend, for a set group of volunteers. Ed did just that, now there's nowhere to go but up.

If you're not going to support NAXJA because you think putting the Crawl in a place 3 hours from your house is wrong, I sure wish I had your problem.
A RedHeep rant I can FULLY back! :cheers:

I drove 6 hours each way to go to NACFest this year - showed up after midnight Friday evening, left Sunday. I am fairly certain I spent more time in transit than I did offroad - and I didn't even have a Jeep to wheel, I showed up for the fun and to hang out with the crew. If you want to go... go. Some showed up from way further away, like one of the guys who drove from northern VT to Rausch.

It's pretty tough to find a good spot with all the support needed, like has already been mentioned, there are only a few campgrounds that are really wheeler friendly in the area of Rausch Creek. Pick the location that fits, and people will either show up, or not show up.