Whats up with the HAM Radios

[98XJLongBuild]

What are the advantages and disadvantages to having a HAM radio? I already have a CB radio and installed. do the HAM radios have more signal strength or what?

[kastein]

You have more frequencies available to choose from with Ham setups, can transmit at much higher powers (legally), and the equipment is generally more flexible. Does require a license though... but a technician class license is pretty easy to get.

[JohnX]

The biggest disadvantage from a jeepers perspective is that not a lot of others have them. On a run with 20 rigs, maybe 2-4 will have ham radios.

[GSequoia]

The biggest disadvantage from a jeepers perspective is that not a lot of others have them.

Bulls***!


The largest disadvantage is that it's yet another expensive hobby to get obsessively into!

[JohnX]

You shouldn't obsess so much ;)

[n1ywb]

Ham radio, or more properly "Amateur Radio", is a hobby and a public service. Ham radio officially exists to
1. Promote the radio arts
2. Enhance international goodwill
3. Maintain a pool of skilled radio operators

You can use Ham radio for anything you like, with some restrictions
1. No commercial activity
2. No music
3. No "broadcasting"
4. No facilitating a crime

You do need a license. The technician level license is pretty easy to get. If you are reasonably technically inclined and can read and remember simple rules you can probably study for it in a weekend. The exam fee is like $10 or something and the license is good for 10 years I think, after which time you pay another $10 to renew.

The biggest technical advantage to a ham radio over a CB is range. CBs use AM, which is inefficient. Ham radios typically use FM on VHF and UHF, which is much more efficient than AM, and SSB on HF, which is much more efficient than FM. Also ham radios typically output much higher power than CB. CB is legally limited to 5 watts. Typical Ham output is 50 watts on VHF or 100 watts on HF. Also a full size VHF ham radio antenna is much smaller than a full size CB antenna, and is much more efficient than a similarly sized CB antenna would be. I run a 5/8ths wave VHF antenna that is about 1.5 feet long. It's got a gain of about 3db (roughly doubles signal strength). A 1.5 foot CB antenna is going to have a loss of about -12db (you lose about 3/4 of your signal) and that's IF it's properly installed and tuned and everything.

The reliable range on a VHF ham radio can really be startling compared to CB. Hams put repeaters up on high mountains so as long as both folks are within range of the mountain top, they can communicate, even if they are not within range of each other. Depending on terrain, antenna height, power, and other factors, repeaters can have a reliable radius of 50 to 100 miles or more. VHF ham radios are pretty cheap and pretty easy to use and it's how most people get started in Ham radio nowadays.

HF range is basically world wide, but it's less reliable, since it uses ionospheric reflection, which varies depending on the time of day, solar conditions, and other random factors. There is a technique called NVIS that provides pretty reliable comms for a radius of about 300 miles, without using repeaters, but it's still not immune to space weather. Equipment is more expensive and trickier to use, and the antennas tend to be bigger. But for expeditions way out into the back country it might be the only means available (other than sat phone which costs $$$) of communicating with the rest of the world.

There's also ham satellites but they can be tricky to use, mostly because there are too many satellite users and not enough satellites.

Honestly a lot more wheelers do run CB so you really do need it on the trail. But CB activity among the general public has pretty much fallen off. Ham radio activity is actually increasing. I can almost always get somebody useful up on my ham radio, no matter how far out in the sticks and out of cell phone range I am, from down in a gulch that the CB would never get out of. So I do think it's useful to have in a rig, especially if you hit the back country. And when you wheel with somebody else with a ham radio you can make private jokes about everyone else and their chicken band radios :) And the caliber of ham radio operators tends to be higher than CB, since it's a licensed service. If you are traveling a lot it's a great way to spend time on the road, chatting on the radio.

http://www.arrl.org for more info.

[98XJLongBuild]

Were would I look to be able to take the Class at.

[old_man]

With ham radio you can run the 2 meter band and their are repeaters all across the US and rarely will you ever be out of range of a repeater. With the repeater, I can from the boonies set up a phone link with the wife three states away. It is far superior in case of emergency due to its ability to work where CB won't.

[Los Lobos]

In search and rescue we use HAM and other VHF frequencies for greater reliability in communication. In the VHF band there is also the Mobile Unit Radio Service aka MURS frequencies which are available to the public. The radios are more expensive than a CB but the benefit of being able to communicate at a far greater range outweighs the extra cost.

K7KRL

[GSequoia]

Ham radio, or more properly "Amateur Radio", is a hobby and a public service. Ham radio officially exists to
1. Promote the radio arts
2. Enhance international goodwill
3. Maintain a pool of skilled radio operators

You can use Ham radio for anything you like, with some restrictions
1. No commercial activity
2. No music
3. No "broadcasting"
4. No facilitating a crime

You do need a license. The technician level license is pretty easy to get. If you are reasonably technically inclined and can read and remember simple rules you can probably study for it in a weekend. The exam fee is like $10 or something and the license is good for 10 years I think, after which time you pay another $10 to renew.

The biggest technical advantage to a ham radio over a CB is range. CBs use AM, which is inefficient. Ham radios typically use FM on VHF and UHF, which is much more efficient than AM, and SSB on HF, which is much more efficient than FM. Also ham radios typically output much higher power than CB. CB is legally limited to 5 watts. Typical Ham output is 50 watts on VHF or 100 watts on HF. Also a full size VHF ham radio antenna is much smaller than a full size CB antenna, and is much more efficient than a similarly sized CB antenna would be. I run a 5/8ths wave VHF antenna that is about 1.5 feet long. It's got a gain of about 3db (roughly doubles signal strength). A 1.5 foot CB antenna is going to have a loss of about -12db (you lose about 3/4 of your signal) and that's IF it's properly installed and tuned and everything.

The reliable range on a VHF ham radio can really be startling compared to CB. Hams put repeaters up on high mountains so as long as both folks are within range of the mountain top, they can communicate, even if they are not within range of each other. Depending on terrain, antenna height, power, and other factors, repeaters can have a reliable radius of 50 to 100 miles or more. VHF ham radios are pretty cheap and pretty easy to use and it's how most people get started in Ham radio nowadays.

HF range is basically world wide, but it's less reliable, since it uses ionospheric reflection, which varies depending on the time of day, solar conditions, and other random factors. There is a technique called NVIS that provides pretty reliable comms for a radius of about 300 miles, without using repeaters, but it's still not immune to space weather. Equipment is more expensive and trickier to use, and the antennas tend to be bigger. But for expeditions way out into the back country it might be the only means available (other than sat phone which costs $$$) of communicating with the rest of the world.

There's also ham satellites but they can be tricky to use, mostly because there are too many satellite users and not enough satellites.

Honestly a lot more wheelers do run CB so you really do need it on the trail. But CB activity among the general public has pretty much fallen off. Ham radio activity is actually increasing. I can almost always get somebody useful up on my ham radio, no matter how far out in the sticks and out of cell phone range I am, from down in a gulch that the CB would never get out of. So I do think it's useful to have in a rig, especially if you hit the back country. And when you wheel with somebody else with a ham radio you can make private jokes about everyone else and their chicken band radios :) And the caliber of ham radio operators tends to be higher than CB, since it's a licensed service. If you are traveling a lot it's a great way to spend time on the road, chatting on the radio.

http://www.arrl.org for more info.

SPOBI!


CB is limited to four watts. ;)

[GSequoia]

You shouldn't obsess so much ;)

Wha? I don't understand.



I don't even have my license yet and I'm already wanting an HF rig and a handheld 2m/70cm ;)

[WB9YZU]

SPOBI!
CB is limited to four watts. ;)

True, but, come on... 4 watts <> 5 watts... you are talking a fraction of db there.

I found N1YWB's explanation to be more then sufficient, though a bit heavy on alphabet soup for a newbie ;)

I haven't been able to find my radio in years, but every morning I look at the tower and wonder why I don't dig it back out. When I was really into it, I spent hours discovering new people. I remember in HS making a CW (morse code) contact before school, then rushing home after school to see what other wonders awaited me out there.

Now there is the internet, and Forums.

On the trail, I haven't been able to find anyone on 2 mtrs, and around here anyway, areas to wheel are no-where near reachable by a repeater. I have been unsuccessful at getting folks in the Club interested in Amateur Radio. It's hard to compete with cheap and easy to use cell phones, and FRS/GMRS handhelds from Walmart. We normally can get a good couple of miles out of a GMRS radio. More than sufficient to talk back and forth in an Off-Road Park ;-)

Ron
WB9YZU

[kastein]

Were would I look to be able to take the Class at.
ARRL.org has a listing of classes/testing sessions coming up in the next month iirc.

Wha? I don't understand.



I don't even have my license yet and I'm already wanting an HF rig and a handheld 2m/70cm ;)
That's not that bad... I've got that, though I need to get the HF rig working, some wafer switches are all gummed up.

W1KAS (since we all seem to be doing this :spin1:)

[n1ywb]

On the trail, I haven't been able to find anyone on 2 mtrs, and around here anyway, areas to wheel are no-where near reachable by a repeater.

Really? Seems like there are lots of repeaters in WI. Maybe they're all deaf. http://www.artscipub.com/repeaters/search/index.asp?state=Wisconsin

Just because nobody answers doesn't mean nobody listens. If you had an emergency and called mayday folks might come out of the woodwork.

In Vermont, in my Jeep, with my 50 watt mobile and 5/8th antenna, I don't think I've EVER been out of range of a repeater.

I have been unsuccessful at getting folks in the Club interested in Amateur Radio. It's hard to compete with cheap and easy to use cell phones, and FRS/GMRS handhelds from Walmart. We normally can get a good couple of miles out of a GMRS radio. More than sufficient to talk back and forth in an Off-Road Park ;-)

I had great success getting my fellow nerds in college to get licensed by teaching a licensing class. You gotta heard the sheep.

[kcjeep6]

Were would I look to be able to take the Class at.

Check with the Rubicon Trail Foundation (check them out on Pirate4X4). I just took their class and passed my Tech test. It was well worth the drive to El Dorado Hills. If you go to QRZ.com you can do a practice test, after a week of the practice test you will be able to pass!
The Test and questions are changing next month.

[xj4fun]

For me the primary goal was emergency communcation. Not only can you get a contact in most situations, but the contacts tend to be highly skilled at assisting with emergencies.

CB's, Cell phones, FRS etc have high limitations and/or failure rates.

As has already been stated a tech license opens up the hundreds (probably thousands) of VHF / UHF repeaters accross the country. This alone is a huge benefit. If you are in a more remote location, and/or don't want to rely on repeaters, upgrading beyond tech opens up the HF world wide bands.

I'm hoping to upgrade to General this Saturday.

73
Kent
KC2WQY

[old_man]

People seem to think that cell phone can be had about anywhere. That may be true back east or on the west coast but here in Colorado, cell phones only tend to work along the interstates.

A tourist lady ran off the road in Rocky Mountain National Park last year and was stuck and spent the night in her car before she was spotted. She is trying to sue the park because it was their RESPONSIBILITY and her RIGHT to have the government insure cell phone service availability everywhere.

[kastein]

tourist
said it all right there...

... if it's tourist season, why can't we shoot em?

[slappomatt]

Bulls***!


The largest disadvantage is that it's yet another expensive hobby to get obsessively into!

quoted for truth! :flame: Having said that we all use them now. Also use modded radio's as race radios on non ham freq's

[casm]

quoted for truth! :flame: Having said that we all use them now. Also use modded radio's as race radios on non ham freq's

Be careful about that. Legalities aside, if you're not stepping on ham freqs, you're very likely stepping on something else. And if what you're stepping on happens to be a commercial licenceholder, that could come back to bite you in a big way - particularly if an investigation determines that your usage was commercial in nature (which it sounds like there's a good chance it could be interpreted as).

Look up the MURS frequencies. There's five of them just above 2m, they're licence-free, and almost entirely unused.

[xjtrailrider]

People seem to think that cell phone can be had about anywhere. That may be true back east....

Nope! Here in the Appalachians/Blue Ridge, cell service is spotty. On our local trail that we frequent, Potts Mountain, the only place on the trail to get cell service is on the eastern face, towards Roanoke. Even then you only have a bar or so. Potts Mountain is only 30miles from Roanoke.

This is typical of western VA and southern WVa.

CB's are only good for Jeep-Jeep communications, cells are not reliable.

[WB9YZU]

True, cell sites are becoming more dense, but if you get out in the country, you may not get cell coverage. I remember being in a hollow at the Inlaws. No Coverage.

Back to Amateur Radio.
It is not a cure all. For example, that hollow I talk about above. Their farm was completely out of range of 2mtr repeater coverage, and it's less than 2hrs from Madison. No population of HAMs, No repeater coverage. There are huge patches in WI that have no coverage, but if you get near a population center your set.

I have driven down the Interstate and dialed up repeaters that you'd think were in range 30 miles out, but couldn't hit them until I was much closer due to their tower height. There is a Repeater in Lafayette, IN, but I can't hit it from Attica (some 14 crow miles)

I have also wheeled in CO, and find that coverage in the Front Range is pretty good, but once you get into to the interior, it becomes non-existent. Again, no concentration of HAMs, no repeaters.

So what I'm saying is that to be truly prepared, you can't rely on just one form of communication. And also be sure not to wheel alone (another vehicle), and to tell someone where you are going (and what time you will be getting back).

And don't put down FRS radios as a communication backup. There have been more rescues done of stranded hikers and the like because lots of people, including kids have them and are too lazy to move them past CH7 :D

[hadfield4wd]

Smoke signals.

[kastein]

Ron's got a good point. Relying on 2 meter and 70cm to get you out of trouble is better than relying on a cellphone, but not by much. If you are going on an expedition type of trip or are otherwise going to be more than a few miles away, I'd suggest bringing a 6 or 10 meter transceiver, preferably even 20 meter or 40 meter, along with a coiled-up long wire antenna or dipole that you can hang from trees if necessary. The equipment is more expensive, but with a good antenna and 50 watts you can be heard for a long ways. With good band/ionosphere conditions, a great antenna, and a decent amount of elevation I've talked to Cuba on 5 watts, from Massachusetts. With a lousy emergency antenna, no tower, and 100 watts I'd expect to at least be heard by someone.