Night Vision

I was thinking about something like this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2498639753614785372&q=bmw+night+vision&hl=en

Looks pretty cool. So, I was thinking I could use those $50-$110 weatherproof outdoor security cams on eBay. So, whats your input? Anybody have one of those cameras, have any reccomendations, or just wanna flame, go right ahead.

Sand

kinda cool I guess for street use, wouldn;t be too helpful offroad unless you like doing night runs.

Dunno - someone going for a jog wearing dark clothes, on an unlit road, at night - deserves to be bloody hit! Take a light, and wear a white shirt, y'know?

"Make a car any idiot can drive, and every idiot will have one." This is just an extension of cars that can parallel park themselves...

5-90

A buddy of mine Mounted a camera on top of each Diff. So the rear faces front and Front faces rear, So you can see and avoid any rocks. It has worked great for him. I am thinking of doing the same but with night vision.

I understand that some people don't really care for this. But, for my intended use it would be so awesome. The roads suck around here and aren't well lit in all areas. Even though the people in the vid were asking for it, I'm not sure the jury would think that way. Also, this would be sweet for deer watching.

Anyone else care to chime in. I'd really like to know the quality of these cameras. I don't mind paying $200 for one of the nicer-ish ones, but how good are the cheapies?

I could see a wide-angle IR in deer country - but if you're jogging on an unlit road, at night, wearing dark colours, you deserve to get whacked, and any judge who doesn't see it that way should be removed from the Bench.

Endeth the Sermon.

Having said that, I'm sure there are some valid safety uses for the system, and I like the idea (I also like having the ability to drive in "blackout") - but protecting some people from their own selfishness and stupidity isn't one of them.

Partly, I liken this to the "auto-park" system that Lexus and BMW have come up with - with the exception that this does have a valid use or three.

Don't mind me so much - I'm just cranky...

5-90

Keep in mind that a security camera is usally using supplimental light from infrared LEDs, this is NOT night vision. A true night vision system will use a light amplifier tube to increase the images using the ambiant light available, the system in the video appers to be a heat sensing camera.

HTH

Rev

Rev Den said:

Keep in mind that a security camera is usally using supplimental light from infrared LEDs, this is NOT night vision. A true night vision system will use a light amplifier tube to increase the images using the ambiant light available, the system in the video appers to be a heat sensing camera.

HTH

Rev

Click to expand...

Ayuh - and there are two basic types of "night vision" -
a) Infrared (commonly listed as "PIR" - Passive InfraRed.) This reacts to heat given off by living things, or retained by objects during the day. PIR can work in total darkness, but doesn't work if everything is the same temperature.

b) Starlight (or "light amplification." This doesn't cue on heat - rather, it amplifies the ambient light several thousand times. While it will work to provide detail when everything is the same temperature, it does require that there be some light present. Better models will work with a starlit night on a new moon, but that still won't do you any good in an indoor or underground blackout.

There is, as Den mentioned, a variation on night vision that uses an infrared camera and some sort of illuminator (LED or IR-filtered flashlight,) and therefore does not depend upon heat, and will serve in total darkness. However, heat gradients are not as obvious as they are with PIR (FLIR - Forward Looking InfraRed - is a variation on this latter, but it's usually set up to work either with or without the illuminator, depending upon what the operator wants.)

For vehicle mounting in deer country, it would probably be best to use some variation on PIR, since it will make the heat gradient of a deer more obvious, and it won't get washed out by the IR illuminator. That's the variation I'd probably go for, given a choice. Use "starlight" for a vision amplifier in low light conditions.

5-90

I like the PIR type camera idea. I've been looking for a while and can't find any that resemble a camera, all I get are those motion detecing boxes. Anyone know where to find em?

http://www.x20.org/thermal/

Rev

Hmmm.... Pretty sweet looking stuff. Just a little outta my price range. I don't need a camera that costs more than my jeep. I'll probably go with an infrared camera with an illuminator, unless I stumble upon a cheaper PIR type camera.

Thanks everyone for the great information.

Anything else I should take into consideration before I start planning this thing. I was thinking of mounting it on top of the roof. Probably mount the cam and the ir lights on a motor driven turntable. I'd put a flipdown monitor above the front passenger seat. Yeah, thats about it for now.

Sand

You will not gain anything with a IR camera wiht an illuminator....they are usually only good for a few feet.

Sorry, but if you wanna play...you gotta pay.

Rev

that would be great for spotting deer on the side of the road....

I hate that people don't put prices with their products. How much would an inexpensive PIR camera cost.

i have a friend with a nutjob neighbor, neighbor used to sneak on his property at nite, dump like ten pounds of birdseed on his lawn, then call town and claim rodents were running around cause of the birdfood, causing an unsafe condition. bs.

my friend used to toss a handful or two of birdseed in front of the house in the morning, but psycho neighbor decided to go to this level, friend had to buy a special anti-spill bird feeder, i'm not making this up.

point is, he got an ifrared light unit, not too $$$, it covered a fair amount of back yard area, at a place called smarthome.com. i've dealt with them, reliable co.

ifrared light units are not that expensive, just gotta look in the right places.

pm me and i'll finish the story... :listenmus

sandman said:

I hate that people don't put prices with their products. How much would an inexpensive PIR camera cost.

Click to expand...

A LOT. Thermal (mid- or far-infrared (5-10 um)) cameras are new to the consumer market, and are still very spendy. A good near-infrared (light amplification) scope (the ones with a green image) run over $3k. A good thermal scope is more like $10k.

Night vision is available in different levels of awesomeness... these are known as Genereations... Gen 1 night vision is the cheap stuff on the market. It relies upon a LOT of ambient light to work, or an IR illuminator and the image will always have a lot of static and seem grainy. Good for spotting deer at night or something like that. Gen 2 has a much clearer image and doesn't rely on an IR illuminator to work. Expect to pay quite a bit more for Gen 2 over Gen 1. Like $1k base to $3k instead of $200 - $800. Gen 3 is what we use in the army. Requires no IR illumination, but still has it as an option. Very clear image with little to no static. A lot of money though.

The other thing oyu need to consider is other traffic or street lights... generally unless you're spending lots of money, night vision won't come with any antiflash protection. Basically that's like what you see in the movies when the guys nightvision goes all white for a while cause he looked at something bright. Oncoming traffic would definately flash your
NV unless you have the expensive stuff with auto protection so you would only want to use it in the absolute absence of other traffic. Would work great on hunting trips or gravel backcountry roads where theres no light or traffic and oyu have deer or mosoe to worry about.

I just don't see it being practical enough for the cost. You'd have a lot more fun installing a computer/touchscreen/GPS combo in your Jeep and it'd see a lot more use for the same price.

So I guess thermal and PIR cameras aren't really options anymore. Would I do better to put a Gen I/ maybe II monocular on a camera with one of those adapters, use the cheaper IR cameras with lots of IR light, or just forget it. I can't find any vids online with an inexpensive IR camera, so I'm not totally sure of the quality (but I did find a vid on google of a flir camera mounted on a military copter, watching two lovebirds in a convertibe for 7 minutes, pretty hilarious commentary too). I'm really tempted to go to walmart or radioshack and buy a IR camera just to see for myself if it's what I'm looking for. I'm not saying that I don't believe you, just that I need to prove myself wrong.

Maybe I would have more fun having a computer. I'd probably do that no matter what, since its hella cool.

Thanks again for everyones input.

Sand

sandman said:

So I guess thermal and PIR cameras aren't really options anymore. Would I do better to put a Gen I/ maybe II monocular on a camera with one of those adapters, use the cheaper IR cameras with lots of IR light, or just forget it. I can't find any vids online with an inexpensive IR camera, so I'm not totally sure of the quality (but I did find a vid on google of a flir camera mounted on a military copter, watching two lovebirds in a convertibe for 7 minutes, pretty hilarious commentary too). I'm really tempted to go to walmart or radioshack and buy a IR camera just to see for myself if it's what I'm looking for. I'm not saying that I don't believe you, just that I need to prove myself wrong.

Maybe I would have more fun having a computer. I'd probably do that no matter what, since its hella cool.

Thanks again for everyones input.

Sand

Click to expand...

The "IR" or light amplification devices that will be cheap (Gen 1 night vision or digital sensors) don't buy you anything more than good foglights, IMHO. They are not any more sensitive to people than trees, etc. They just let you see (everything) better in the dark.

Went to Walmart and got a cheapy cam that I saw on eBay. Really small, round, silver in color, had a few IR lights around the cam. Tried it at home and I think it's pretty sweet. Only thing is there's not enough IR lights, so the range isn't outstanding. Plus, I don't have a lot of completely open space here, lots of trees and plants, which take up all of the light. So, I'll play around with it a little more, and if I really like it, I'll start looking around for a better IR cam and some IR lights. What I got on my TV was basically a B&W pic while in complete darkness.

So, hopefully, I'll have some sortof system up and running in the spring. I'm saving for a 3" to put some 33's on right now, and I'll most likely do a military theme.

Sand