Random Axles

Hey.

I've got an 85 Cherokee with the Chevy V6 and the 5-speed. It would be incredibly easy for me to get the back axle from a K5 Blazer, I have one on its side. I can get the front axle from F-150s and 250s easily. I can also get back axles from Dodge 150s/100s (mostly rwd) easily. All cars are from 1975-89. If I am trying to just find two axles with the same gears, which vehicle should I gut? And what would be easiest to install?

Gears depend... you'll want to pull the diff covers and check. You'll find the ratio marked in one of two ways - either two separated numbers like 3 55 (for 3.55:1) or two numbers like 46 13 (46 tooth ring gear, 13 tooth pinion, 3.54:1 ratio, divide the big number by the small one.)

If the ratios differ by a small amount it's fine - up to 2% or so. So if you find an axle with 4.57s and an axle with 4.54s it is fine because that's only about 0.6% different (divide one number by the other, multiply by 100, subtract 100)

I was also thinking maybe people did this often, and would know what kind of truck generally has the right axles. What about the installation?

Installation will have 3 big considerations. In no particular order, look out for width, bracketry and driveline. If you don't care how wide the axles are (full width vs cherokee width) then don't worry about it. You also want to look for how the axles mount - leaf spring mounts can be over or under the axle and with a cherokee, you want the axle under the spring.
The front you will need to cut everything up and make new mounts for the coil springs, shocks, 4 control arms, track bar, etc. It's a bear.

try to score the both the front and rear axles outta a f150/250. if its a 150, aim for a mid 70's to 77, desirable front dana 44 and ford 9 inch rear. if its a 250, aim for a 78 or 79, itll have a dana 60 in the rear and either a HD dana 44 OR dana 60 up front :greensmok

Flying Jester said:

I was also thinking maybe people did this often, and would know what kind of truck generally has the right axles. What about the installation?

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In an XJ, you're looking at an axle width (WMS-WMS) of around 60-1/4" to 60-1/2". I wouldn't go any narrower than that, since you'd have to have an awful lot of offset on the wheels.

Also, if you're going to go with full-size truck axles, it's almost a cinch that you're going to have a different lug pattern (IIRC, the XJ runs 5@4-1/2". Most full-size trucks run six or eight lugs, and any five-lug jobs are probably 5@5" or 5@5-1/2".) So, you may want to look into bringing the wheels along for the swap as well - and you're in good shape if you've got 15" or 16" wheels anyhow.

Oh - and the 9"/44 combo can also be scored from a U-100 Bronco (full-size,) if you have one of those. The 8.8" is also a decent axle, but it suffers from having C-clips. C-clip eliminator kits can be had relatively easily however - I'm sure that both Moser and Strange make them (as well as various upgrades.)

The early 1970's F-250 "Snow Fighter" package had, I think, D60/D60 axles - which is probably easier to find up there in Alaska than it is down here.

Me? I just want D44/D44, maybe 62" wide or so. A bit wider footprint, stronger axles than the D30/D35 I've got now (I'm refitting for a work truck, not a crawler/hauler, so I don't need to get silly...) and I'm used to the D44 axle anyhow. Which axle you select depends heavily on intended application...

No matter what axle you select, you're going to be looking at needing to replace bracketry anyhow - shock tabs and leaf pads 'round back, and spring buckts & suspension bracketry up front. The only way to have a "bolt-in swap" would be if you got a D44 (available 1984-1988.0, with the tow package) rear from an XJ, or a Chrysler 8-1/4" (available 1991-2001) from an XJ. Even the MJ axle isn't a "bolt-in" swap, since the spring pads need to be moved (the XJ is "spring-over," while the MJ is "spring-under.")

I'm really not worried about different lug patterns. In fact, I like the idea of heavier duty lug patterns on the back than the front, because it gives the idea of huge power (I think so, anyway). As far as width, it can legally be as far out from the fenders as I want, so mostly I'm worried about it being easier to put in than not.
I can get an Ford 8.8 inch, from an old car (like, '60s car). Is that really a good axle? It was only offered in my car, a Ford Fairlane, with the 170 I6 and the 3 on the tree. Will it really be better than the one I have now? Better or worse than a GM 14 bolt? Also, I'd like to put in a rear limited slip eventually, which would be the cheaper to get one for, or would it be better to find a dana 60?

An old car with an 8.8 is *probably* going to have 28 spline axles instead of 31. Not sure though, I'm no Ford axle expert.

Whether it gives the idea of huge power or not, it means you are gonna have to carry two spare tires if you don't like a 50/50 chance of being screwed when you get a flat

A 14 bolt is going to be way stronger than an 8.8. Those things are huge - the ring gear is over an inch and a half larger in diameter, it's a full floating axle instead of c-clip so your wheel won't fall off if you manage to break a shaft somehow (which isn't gonna happen with a chevy V6 or even a 4.0...) It also has a pinion support at the tip of the pinion.

I've never done one... but I've read about them plenty. Here's a great article: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/index.html

If you can get over the darn thing weighing ~450lbs without the brakes, they're awesome!

I have no real world experience with axles that big. I can, however, tell you things about axles you suggest... but you want someone else to compare them.

kastein said:

An old car with an 8.8 is *probably* going to have 28 spline axles instead of 31. Not sure though, I'm no Ford axle expert.

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Are we talking about the ford 8" here? which had a drop out 3rd like a 9"

the 8.8 doesnt have a drop out 3rd, and I thought was a fairly new setup to replace the 9"

Mayhaps there was an old 8.8 and a new 8.8, but there was an old ford intermediate/compact 8.8 inch axle.

souske said:

Are we talking about the ford 8" here? which had a drop out 3rd like a 9"

the 8.8 doesnt have a drop out 3rd, and I thought was a fairly new setup to replace the 9"

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Not sure, he said 8.8 so I figured he was talking about an 8.8, he might be wrong on what was in the car he mentioned though... no idea. I've got an 8.8 sitting in my storage unit stripped down and waiting for me to find time to install it right now, a removable third member would be nice but for the price it was still a great idea.

kastein said:

An old car with an 8.8 is *probably* going to have 28 spline axles instead of 31. Not sure though, I'm no Ford axle expert.

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An old car with something in the region of 8" is probably going to be the Ford 8" third member axle. Not as strong and not as much support as the 9", so watch out (The Ford 9-3/8" third member was even worse for support - but it was mainly in Lincoln and Thunderbird. Be sure to check, tho.)

kastein said:

Whether it gives the idea of huge power or not, it means you are gonna have to carry two spare tires if you don't like a 50/50 chance of being screwed when you get a flat

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Concur. You'd be far better off having the same lug pattern on all four wheels - even if you have to have shafts made to match (which can be done by some axle ventors.)

kastein said:

A 14 bolt is going to be way stronger than an 8.8. Those things are huge - the ring gear is over an inch and a half larger in diameter, it's a full floating axle instead of c-clip so your wheel won't fall off if you manage to break a shaft somehow (which isn't gonna happen with a chevy V6 or even a 4.0...) It also has a pinion support at the tip of the pinion.

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There are two GM 14-bolt axles - the 14b SF (9-1/2" ring) and the 14b FF (10-1/2" ring.) Yes, they are different, although they may look the same. Look for these under the K20/K30, K20 Sub, K2500/3500. (the one-ton version will probably be the FF, while the 3/4-ton version will probably be the SF. Both are better than the D35...)

kastein said:

I've never done one... but I've read about them plenty. Here's a great article: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/index.html

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Boomark the BillAVista Tech Pages! You'll want to be able to get back to them easily...

kastein said:

If you can get over the darn thing weighing ~450lbs without the brakes, they're awesome!

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Yeah, they're heavy as the hinges of Hell - but they're rather worth it. And, they can be "shaved" for no loss of strength and picking up a couple inches of ground clearance.

kastein said:

I have no real world experience with axles that big. I can, however, tell you things about axles you suggest... but you want someone else to compare them.

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I've got plenty of data on axles in general, and I can probably answer more specific questions as you come up with them. I won't be able to answer them all (yet... Still workin' on that bit...) but give me time.

5-90 said:

I've got plenty of data on axles in general, and I can probably answer more specific questions as you come up with them. I won't be able to answer them all (yet... Still workin' on that bit...) but give me time.

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Ok then: If I'm planning on upgrading my engine so that in the end it will make about 150 hp, keeping the V6 and the 5speed, what axle ratio should I aim for, and what vehicle will that be likely to appear in?

Gear ratio depends alot on tire size. What size meats are you wanting to run? How much lift are you going to run? You cant just pick a gear ratio based on power.

Stallacrew said:

Gear ratio depends alot on tire size. What size meats are you wanting to run? How much lift are you going to run? You cant just pick a gear ratio based on power.

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with a low power motor you wanna go as deep as possible

Lets say 31" tires with a 2.5" suspension lift and a two inch body lift.

I smell a thin layer of BS over this whole thread... I think all of you are being had.

In what way!?

...oh my

Flying Jester said:

Lets say 31" tires with a 2.5" suspension lift and a two inch body lift.

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you're either a troll or don't know what you're talking about in a serious way... can't body lift XJs and body lift + suspension lift have nothing to do with gear ratio.