Violence in Baja

[HeepSpeed]

So with a new wave of people mentioning violence in Baja, Mexico, I thought I'd voice a single sentence or two about what I think of going to Baja right now:

GO TO BAJA, but stay away from the cities! The violence is happening in towns and cities (many border towns like tijuana and rosarito), but if you head south for a few hours and find a desolate beach after hitting up a grocery and liquor store (cheaper food/liquor prices) then you'll be just fine. Camp with a few people and preferably more than 1 vehicle or within site of other campers. I went down right before New Years and couldn't have had a better time camping. We jammed out of TJ and Rosa real quick avoiding main streets and such, but after that we didn't see anyone and when we stopped at little taco stands, they were VERY nice and even appreciative of our business...

I'd love to hear your thoughts on going to Mexico amid all the news of violence. Also - if you live down there, please let us know what you think!

[joe_peters]

Nothing personal, just a lifelong observance and comments.

I have been in "harm's way" many times in my life, and every single time I had put myself there--enlisting in Marines, working as a bodyguard and later as a bouncer, drifting into areas where the wiser would fear to tread in some of the nastier nations around the globe. Each and every time I knew exactly what I was in for, and I prepared as best I could for the situation.

However, dumb azz tourists, particularly the American ones, are another story. I find it extraordinarily hilarious when otherwise normal people find themselves DEAD, KIDNAPPED, RAPED, or simply BEATEN AND ROBBED, after consciously entering into danger. I find the comments of the media and the effected peoples' families equally hilarious.

Iraq, Pakistan, North Korea, Afghanistan, Somalia, MEXICO, none of these places are currently on my vacation list.

So, if you are 18, go and good luck. I can always use a good laugh.

[OverlandXJ]

I have been wanting to do a trip down the Baja coastline since i started reading all the reports at EXPO. Time it to include a stop at the Cabo Cantina for Sammy's B-Day Bash.. that would be a party!

Honestly i dont think any of my local friends and travelmates would opt for this trip during these times... to easy to opt for something else less dangerous. We might feel different if it wasnt a weeks drive..

I do have a craving to experience a beach camp complete with a bonfire, clambake and fish taco's.

[Jump This]

I have done a lot of traveling in Mexico, but I'm not sure I'd do much driving down there right now.
Flying down to Cabo would be fine, but driving down to Puerta Los Angeles would not be on my list of things to do.
I hope they can get it together down there soon, I miss it.

[OverlandXJ]

I have done a lot of traveling in Mexico, but I'm not sure I'd do much driving down there right now.
Flying down to Cabo would be fine, but driving down to Puerta Los Angeles would not be on my list of things to do.
I hope they can get it together down there soon, I miss it.


Bahia de Los Angeles is one of the spots i really wanted to visit.

Guess i could drive through mainland Mex and ferry across.

[XJEEPER]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/09/mexican-drug-cartels-warn-shut-up-or-heads-will-ro/print/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/09/mexican-drug-cartels-warn-shut-up-or-heads-will-ro/print/)


Meeh, I've always wanted to wheel Baja......but have lost interest recently.

[Original_MudButt]

In '08 there was a group of 3 motorcycle riders pre-running for the Baja 1000. They got too close to somebody's "farm" and was shot.

He survived. It was oficially labeled "a hunting accident"...

I spent 15 years in a row going to San Felipe for the Baja 250.

I haven't been there at all in the last 4 years....

[HeepSpeed]

Seems like a lot of negative responses here. For a fun read, I also posted the same question on Expo and got mostly positive responses...

Now the million dollar question: why the difference in attitudes on two similar forums? :D

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=606097#post606097

[DrMoab]

Ex-Po and Naxja are not similar at all. I find myself really having to bite my inner cheek a lot over there. I find a lot of valuable info there and I also find a lot of real weiners too. Seems like a lot of the guys there are just wannabe evironmentalists who just can't quite get rid of their vechicles for whatever reason. I'm sure most people there aren't that way but there is a lot who are.

I equate environmentalists to very stupid people with no common sense. Might be one reason they are willing to go into harms way without thinking about it.

On the other side of things... That site is all about long distance expedition travel. A lot of people there have a lot of experience with third world countries and could very well know exactly what they are talking about. Where a lot of people here are scared because they see it on the news but don't have any first hand personal experience.

[OverlandXJ]

Nothing negative about making an educated decision to opt for spending time where one feels safe and has more rights/options in self protection.

In the event i was driving through a neighborhood in Philadelphia and was suddenly rushed by armed assailants i'd simply "attempt" to run em down.. and feel secure that i wouldnt be incarcerated in a foreign country. I'm comparing the recent video thread over there.

Also, i havent read a single report of armed assailants actually being law enforcement here in the states.

Again, had i grown up in your area i may feel differently.

[Original_MudButt]

Also, i havent read a single report of armed assailants actually being law enforcement here in the states.


That's a good point. I have heard/read story after story of tourists being robbed or carjacked by either police or people posing as police in Baja...

Kind of hard for me to have a good time in a place where you don't even know if the uniformed are good guys or bad.....

[FordGuy]

The bottom line is right now no matter where you go you could end up dead. There has been so many kidnappings that never hit the news, hell there is a company in LA that does nothing but negotiations for people held hostage in Mex. I would love to Race the 500 or 1k but not right now. They are even robbing and raping the Surf crowd in the middle of no-where. Suck's becouse Mex is way cool. I just figure there is so much to see and do here why chance it.

[FlexdXJ]

Suck's becouse Mex is way cool.

So cool that they are just rushing to leave their home country by the thousands every day? I will never set foot in Mexico if I don't have to.

[FordGuy]

So cool that they are just rushing to leave their home country by the thousands every day? I will never set foot in Mexico if I don't have to.

I can understand why some people say that, but there is a lot to be said for spending time in other countries. I have been to a bunch of other countries and don't regret any of them.

[FlexdXJ]

Oh there are plenty of countries I would love to go to but Mexico is not on that list. Japan, Australia and Italy would be very cool to visit.

[HeepSpeed]

YA! I hope I can do a two week exchange program with my grad school to go to China

[Boatwrench]

Also, i havent read a single report of armed assailants actually being law enforcement here in the states.

.

Nothing I could share. Two years ago went to a meeting with the Mexican Navy in Ensenada, MX. Had to drive down from San Diego, was told by a security officer, do NOT stop even for law enforcement until after Rosarito.

[OverlandXJ]

Seems like a lot of negative responses here. For a fun read, I also posted the same question on Expo and got mostly positive responses...

Now the million dollar question: why the difference in attitudes on two similar forums? :D

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=606097#post606097


You didnt give it enough time :D Your still newish over there.. you'll see that it's not comprised of level headed mature members like in the old days. Guess thats true with growth of any Bulletin Board though. The old days it was nice there. Kinda like the way it is here now.. :wave1: We just need more content.



Nothing I could share. Two years ago went to a meeting with the Mexican Navy in Ensenada, MX. Had to drive down from San Diego, was told by a security officer, do NOT stop even for law enforcement until after Rosarito.

You had the Feds behind ya if you did attempt it. I dont think thats a wise option for a civilian. Wonder if the Duke boys are busy... that would be entertaining. :D

[A7XJ]

So cool that they are just rushing to leave their home country by the thousands every day? I will never set foot in Mexico if I don't have to.


x2 billion.

I just don't understand why people want to go spend money down there when the money can be cycled back into our economy by just vacationing in the states. Most people I know say they go down there cuz everything is so cheap. All they really are doing is taking advantage of really poor people.

[Original_MudButt]

I just don't understand why people want to go spend money down there.....

Then you haven't experienced Baja....

Baja is VERY remote once you get past the tourist zone. It's ruggedly beautiful, and in a lot of places very desolate.

Try camping on the beach in Ca., good luck!

Everyplace is either paved over, or overrun.... Ever been to Pismo on a big weekend? It's a ZOO!!

But how is visiting another country taking advantage of poor people? I don't see the connection.

Not trying to argue with you. I do agree that with the economy the way it is, we might all be better served spending our vacation dollars here.

It's just sad. Baja is a very unique place. And the people who live there, the honest people, are some of the most kind and gentle people you will ever meet.

This is a case of a bunch of bad apples XXXXing it up for everybody else.

I have been all the way to La Paz and back. Spent 15 years exploring Baja......

I am also a member of the Patriot Point Posse (Minutemen).

I have spent too many nights watching the garbage spill over the border into the U.S. I have spent too many days repairing the damage and cleaning up the trash the narco and human smugglers have left behind.

It's very bad on the border and I will not cross again until someone gets a handle on the situation down there.

[Darky]

I've been into Mexico a few times and liked it a lot. Puerto Penasco was nice. I've been into Juarez and Imuriz as well. Juarez was some poor people.

[XJCasper]

Maybe the wife will get her wish of going to Hawaii.

Economics have really driven down the package deals.

Safer than the trip she wants to Mexico.

[joe_peters]

Just another day in a vacation paradise: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/24/mexican-police-officers-killed-ciudad-juarez/

[XJ Eric]

Geez. If there is one country that is going to collapse soon, I'm betting its Mexico. Those of you near the border, keep your head down and your side arm loaded.

[Darky]

Just another day in a vacation paradise: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/24/mexican-police-officers-killed-ciudad-juarez/
That's in Juarez, nobody goes there for vacation. That's just a place to get through quickly on the way to somewhere else.

[IslanderOffRoad]

I've been into Mexico a few times and liked it a lot. Puerto Penasco was nice. I've been into Juarez and Imuriz as well. Juarez was some poor people.

I love Penasco, and would love to get back down there.

[HeepSpeed]

hehe, just to fuel the fire: There's rumblings of a Baja trip over Memorial Day.

[joe_peters]

:dunce:hehe, :dunce:just:dunce: to:dunce: fuel:dunce: the:dunce: fire: There's:dunce: rumblings:dunce: of:dunce: a:dunce:Baja :dunce:trip:dunce: over:dunce: Memorial Day.:dunce:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7061705.ece

Yep, just a vacation paradise!

Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

[HeepSpeed]

Yep - more violence in the cities I won't be in. Find me the gnarly killings of surfing campers and such traveling in caravan without $20,000 RV's and trailers.

I meant it in jest anyways - I think we're going to do GHOST TOWNS in california! :D

[SpartyKrunk]

I am a Mexican citizen as well as a US citizen, and I hate to say this; but I am terrified of traveling by land back to my families home town of Zapopan in Guadalajara, Mexico. I really wish I could just drive my Jeep down there and pop the tent out...sadly im restricted to air travel for my own safety. Hopefuly one day things will calm down enough for me to drive down to Mexico. Last year when I was down there, I witnessed alot of things, from gun battles to kidnappings; most of them along the various border towns and towns in between. Recently though, i've been told that even Guadalajara is not safe. Since it is a "safe heaven" to most of the top king pins. I leave in late June this year, hope my plane doesnt get shot down; thats all thats left.

[joe_peters]

I am a Mexican citizen as well as a US citizen, and I hate to say this; but I am terrified of traveling by land back to my families home town of Zapopan in Guadalajara, Mexico. I really wish I could just drive my Jeep down there and pop the tent out...sadly im restricted to air travel for my own safety. Hopefuly one day things will calm down enough for me to drive down to Mexico. Last year when I was down there, I witnessed alot of things, from gun battles to kidnappings; most of them along the various border towns and towns in between. Recently though, i've been told that even Guadalajara is not safe. Since it is a "safe heaven" to most of the top king pins. I leave in late June this year, hope my plane doesnt get shot down; thats all thats left.

I hope the same thing for all the innocent and law abiding people of Mexico.

[fosforito_one]

This is a really frustrating topic. I lived down in Guatemala for two years from 2003-2005 and saw a lot of the drug and gang violence (it was nothing like today's Mexico but still pretty violent). When the Drug trafficers are having there territorial disputes they will kidnap, maim, and kill anyone. The worst places I saw outside of the capitol city were Puerto Barrios, Zacappa, and Chiquimula. In side the Capitol was pretty much anywhere after dark.

After whitnessing several shooting, even more aftermath scenes, and talking with multiple families who's loved one had been kidnapped and ransomed never to be seen again its just not worth it.

Yes I know this is a thead about Mexico but it is realivant to point out that this violence is happeninig in many other countries and is affecting millions of others thoughout the area.

If you really want to spend some time in the mountains or the sand and have the possibility of being beaten, toutured, or killed then join the marines or army infantry and atleast get paid for it.

[stewie]

I am a Mexican citizen as well as a US citizen, and I hate to say this; but I am terrified of traveling by land back to my families home town of Zapopan in Guadalajara, Mexico. I really wish I could just drive my Jeep down there and pop the tent out...sadly im restricted to air travel for my own safety. Hopefuly one day things will calm down enough for me to drive down to Mexico. Last year when I was down there, I witnessed alot of things, from gun battles to kidnappings; most of them along the various border towns and towns in between. Recently though, i've been told that even Guadalajara is not safe. Since it is a "safe heaven" to most of the top king pins. I leave in late June this year, hope my plane doesnt get shot down; thats all thats left.

FYI: The United States does not recognize dual citizenship. Either your American or your not :banghead:

[SpartyKrunk]

FYI: The United States does not recognize dual citizenship. Either your American or your not :banghead:

FYI, Mexico does; I'm an American here, and a Mexican here. I have an American friend who is also a citizen of South Africa by birth. So, I am American by birth and Mexican by heritance. If either one or both of your parents are Mexican natives, you as their child can apply for citizenship. Both of my parents also have dual citizenship. Just because the US doesn't recognize it, so you say, doesn't mean other countries don't. Good thing about this is we don't require passports to travel down south.

[chaser9478]

I really want to go to baja. Matter of fact Sal Fish called and personally invited me. I do have serious reservations. The first being my concealed carry permit is no good there. Mexico has the strictest gun laws in the world, and the worst crime, go figure......They just don't want the good guys to have a chance.
I go an idea lets chip in and get a bradley to take down there......LOL that is the only way I would drive.

[SpartyKrunk]

I really want to go to baja. Matter of fact Sal Fish called and personally invited me. I do have serious reservations. The first being my concealed carry permit is no good there. Mexico has the strictest gun laws in the world, and the worst crime, go figure......They just don't want the good guys to have a chance.
I go an idea lets chip in and get a bradley to take down there......LOL that is the only way I would drive.


Im sure if they changed the laws, things wouldn't be as bad.

[ladywolf]

i have no desire to go visit mexico....theres way too much in the US i want to go visit.

[johnnyc]

I used to go to Mexico twice a year for the Rosarito-Ensenada bike ride. Did that for about 5 years straight. Started out as a lot of fun. But the fun seemed to diminish each time.

The problem was getting hassled by the Federales (teenagers with automatic weapons) and being extorted by the local police.

That was reason enough to stop going down there. Now, with the violence factor, I have absolutely no desire to go to Mexico again.

Besides, I'm only a few miles from Santa Ana. :)

[chaser9478]

It is a shame......They should legalize drugs and tax the hell out them. It would stop alot of the violence and end the reccession. I used to go to the border towns before I was 21 in Nogales, Laredo and Acuna when I was in the USAF. It was a good time but I wouldn't dare go now.......I want to go to Baja so bad though I am considering flying to Ensenada for the 1000.

[SpartyKrunk]

Flying is about the safest method of travel right now. I was watching the news the other day on how the Feds discovered a "Zetas" training camp. Weapons and such everywhere, but what caught my eye was how many luxury vehicles where parked in a shed. Problem is, they where all stolen and reported stolen from the U.S.

[chaser9478]

If I wasn't disabled I would be there. I wanted to sign up for border patrol and move back to AZ. Oh well my medical records and back injuries put a stop to that.

I am going to save money and fly down in Nov. for the 1000. I have never been and I got a great offer to see it from the inside. I want to start volunteering with the air to ground part of it because it relates to what I did in the USAF.

[n1ywb]

They should legalize drugs and tax the hell out them.

If you tax the hell out of it that will still promote the black market.

[chaser9478]

Look at the tax on alcohol and tobacco, sure they have a black market but not like mj.

[XJCasper]

If you tax the hell out of it that will still promote the black market.

But at least the State and Federal Governments could get their cut.

Ya sure people like to make beer at home, but look at all the taxes which are collected in alcohol sales.

[Boatwrench]

It is a shame......They should legalize drugs and tax the hell out them. It would stop alot of the violence and end the reccession. I used to go to the border towns before I was 21 in Nogales, Laredo and Acuna when I was in the USAF. It was a good time but I wouldn't dare go now.......I want to go to Baja so bad though I am considering flying to Ensenada for the 1000.

Maybe (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/24/MND61DHJTE.DTL) Not enough detail in the article to make a determination but some interesting perspectives.

[chaser9478]

Good article. The law kinda leaves it open to harass people they want to get as to be expected from the govt.

The end of prohibition and the tax of alcohol pulled the country out of the depression. It also put an end to some of the most notorious gangsters and their crime rings.

[Original_MudButt]

The end of prohibition and the tax of alcohol pulled the country out of the depression.

Umm... No.

Prohibition was repealed in '33. The depression lasted into the '40s.

General consensus says it was WWII....

[joe_peters]

Umm... No.

Prohibition was repealed in '33. The depression lasted into the '40s.

General consensus says it was WWII....

Agree.