Colorado Chapter's 1st Tech Seminar

[YELLAHEEP]

Since the first time this was proposed at a quarterly meeting, this idea has been highly anticipated. Well, here ya go - the Colorado Chapter's first Tech Seminar!

November 18th is the day - I know it's short notice, but with the holidays coming up soon and Terry's personal schedule, this is the date that works best.

The topic for this session will be focused on modifying the Dana 30. Terry (87xjco) and D.J. (91 Jeep Project) have collaborated to put together a very detailed "overhaul" of the Dana 30 axle that will include: Complete teardown, inspection of critical parts, replacement of axle shafts & u-joints, swapping in new gears and a locker, then re-assembly of the axle.

Those of you that attend will gain valuable knowledge with the advantage of actually seeing the installation using the proper tools and equipment - but more importantly, have people available to answer your questions as the install is being done. Doesn't get any better than this!

Terry will post up with the location and time information. We look forward to seeing you all there! Please post in this thread if you plan on attending so we can get an idea of how many we'll need to accomodate. Plan on bringing a folding chair if you don't wanna stand for the entire session.

[mingo]

I might just have to drive over the hill to come to this. Weather depending.
Count me in.

[87xjco]

Should be a fun time for all of us crazy wheelers who would rather spend time in a dirty garage then hang out on the couch. (well sometimes anyways)

The shop is CIM Auto Body at 10750 N. Irma Dr. Unit 7 and 8, Northglenn, CO

Irma Dr. is about 2.5 miles east of I-25 and turn north off of 104th avenue.

Here's a map.
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=10750+N.+Irma+Dr.&csz=Northglenn%2C+co&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=

I'm thinking we should start at about 12:00 noon and we'll hope for it to take about 4 hours if everything goes smooth (which it never does)

Bringing chairs is a good idea. And if you have gloves and safety glasses this would be good. I'll have a few extra pairs of each available.

Sorry no campfire activities will be available but I hope to see a good turn out for this event.

Terry

[ColoradoXJ13]

Does one need a membership to attend these? I will be out of town on the 18th, but would like to attend future ones...too bad though, my D30 would have been a perfect specimen and I would have loved to learn this stuff.

[LawnDart]

yeah this is definately a cant miss event! i also have some questions about installing an EZ locker on a dana 35. ive already bought the EZ locker, and im just waiting for that purfect weekend to put it in.
chris 86XJ

[Powerman]

I rebuilt both my axles. It is intimidating if you haven't done it. My mechanic friend help me. If any of you have any hope in the future of doing this, attend the session. It all make much more sense once you've seen it done. I am working that weekend, but it really rocks that you guys are doing this. Everyone should take advantage of the opportunity offered.

[YELLAHEEP]

Does one need a membership to attend these? I will be out of town on the 18th, but would like to attend future ones...too bad though, my D30 would have been a perfect specimen and I would have loved to learn this stuff.


Nope. Yucca Man let his expire..... and we'll probably allow him to sit quietly in the corner if he behaves. He'll whine if we don't. :D

The only requirement is the desire to learn - and having an XJ certainly helps.

[Sting25]

I will be there for sure...It will be good to meet some of you finnaly.

Chris

[YELLAHEEP]

I might just have to drive over the hill to come to this. Weather depending.
Count me in.


Hey hold on there mister..... None of us said a thing about any raffle, you ain't gonna win a damn thing by showin' up........ :D

[mingo]

Hey hold on there mister..... None of us said a thing about any raffle, you ain't gonna win a damn thing by showin' up........ :D

What? your not gonna raffle off DJs axle after the build?

[YELLAHEEP]

What? your not gonna raffle off DJs axle after the build?


Oh sure, I'd raffle anything if there's enough $$$ in it........ but his rig would look like a 'coon dog hot on a scent for his drive home......... :D

[wall04]

If I wasn't going to be out of town I'd be there (I bring beer too). I went wheeling in Wyo a couple of weekends ago and I shredded the pass Ujoint AND I needed new gears up front. Don't ask. I had to take it to the shop and I'd love to learn how to do it myself. You guys are great for putting this stuff on.

Cheers.:cheers:

[NoCoastFocus]

I am gonna try and make this one! It will be nice to meet some of the naxja members and see the tear down...

[Kittrell]

Just wondering if anyone who is coming has some stock front bumper brackets, black grill, black passenger headlight bezel, and side marker light laying around - '91-'96. If you do, let me know what Brew you prefer, and I'll have it there. If you have all of it, I'll get you a few packs of your choice..........:cheers:

[sappersly]

I would like to attend

[Yucca-Man]

Troy - I fart in your general direction....http://www.yuccaman.com/icons/happyfinger.gif

[frebius]

I will be there.

[Rockken]

I will be there, if there is still room.

[YELLAHEEP]

Ok, I've taken a count from this thread and the "Meeting" thread, here's the attendance list:

Myself, Terry and DJ are for certain.

Those that said "I'll be there"
Rokken
Frebius
Sappersly
Mingo
Sting 25
ttihsllub <--(clever....:rolleyes:)


The "maybe's"
NoCoastFocus
Cisek
MMIXJ
ExNews4XJ
Yucca-Man (always a maybe....)
CoDevilDog

Please confirm your intentions if you're not on either list or one of the "maybe's".

Thanks

[87xjco]

Plenty of room for all that want to attend.

[mingo]

Gonna have to pass. The wife told me I was going to Denver for Thanksgiving. Not going to drive it two weekends in a row.
I know, I know.....Sounds like a good thing. Sorry to miss it.

[Kittrell]

Here is a list of whats actually getting done, so you have an idea of what you'll be seeing:

Superior HP D30 4.88s
Superior D30 Master Install
D30 Detroit True Trac
Inner Seals
Yukon 4340 Alloy Inners and Outer
Yukon Super Joints
Full Circle Clips
Unit Bearings

[ExNews4XJ]

I'll be there.

[NoCoastFocus]

I am a for sure although I have to leave early for the Ohio State vs Michigan game.

[NoCoastFocus]

Edit- I thought the game was at 3:30, but its at 1:30 so now I won't be able to make it...I really wanted too, but definitely next time.

[Yucca-Man]

Put me down as a "most-definitely-likely" on the 18th at noon.

I upgraded my axleshafts to D30s overnight....that's like 150% the strength of the D20 shaft right?? :doh: I can bring 'em along for visual aids, u-joint replacement samplers, or smack-the-gimp tools... :D

Any interest / possibility of doing a swap meet simultaneously?

Jim

[arnold]

I'd be there but I too can't miss the michigan vs. ohio state game. GO BUCKS!

[Kittrell]

For a football game? Get a life or get Tivo.

[87xjco]

Put me down as a "most-definitely-likely" on the 18th at noon.

I upgraded my axleshafts to D30s overnight....that's like 150% the strength of the D20 shaft right?? :doh: I can bring 'em along for visual aids, u-joint replacement samplers, or smack-the-gimp tools... :D

Any interest / possibility of doing a swap meet simultaneously?

Jim

That's not a bad idea. there's plenty of floor space available. And I have alot of old junk that no one should want!

[DaJudge]

I'd be there but I too can't miss the michigan vs. ohio state game. GO BUCKS!

Which team is yours?

[Idiot Wind]

I'll be there.

[Seiler]

I will be there too. Need to learn about this :cheers:

-Scott

[Kittrell]

Looks like my gear guy is coming through on the 44. So who wants to help me swap it in while Terry is running the show?

XJ 44
Alloy USA Dual Pattern Alloys
Tera Flex Dual Pattern Disc Brakes
M.O.R.E. Ebrake Cables

Will be geared and ready to go with 4.88s and a True Trac. Terry will be pressing the new bearings onto the Alloys, so you'll get to see that too.

[xj-grin]

I'd be there but I too can't miss the michigan vs. ohio state game. GO BUCKS!


baahhh, GO BLUE!

[MMIXJ]

i may be a few minutes late comin' from a firetruck birthday party :party:
...(gotta love 3 year olds).

terry

[Sting25]

Should I bring anything? Beer, chairs etc..?

[jdogg4]

I really need to be there but I'm not sure I can make it.

[YELLAHEEP]

Slight hic-up to the tech seminar........ DJ's appendix took a crap and he's going under the knife in about a half hour. He won't be able to make it, but I believe he and I have worked it out that I'll be bringing his rig and the parts to Terry's shop so the seminar can still happen. There won't be a D44 rear install as briefly discussed.

Man, he'll do anything to have someone else wrench on his rig........... :D

[MMIXJ]

hmmm... maybe i'll pick up some new ball joints tomorrow for the D30 and throw them in the jeep just in case we need a "Plan B". ;)

[87xjco]

Here's to a speedy recovery DJ.

MMIXJ, we will be covering everything that needs to be taken off on DJ's rig, to get down to where the knuckles can be removed.

There's probably enough people that want to get some hands on experience, that having two rigs would be good, maybe as we do each step of disassembly on DJ's rig, we could have yours next to it and the steps can be repeated on your rig. Then it's just a matter of knocking your old ball joints out and pressing in new ones which would be good for the group to cover as well. Of course yours would have to be done on the floor with jack stands.

I don't think this would slow down things at all. It could be a win win for all.

If you want, call me tomorrow, I can probably get a real good price on ball joints and have them there for you. Maybe Troy can be showing those steps on your rig to some of the group while i'm showing others the same steps on DJ's.

Let me know,
Terry, Work phone # 303-453-1459

[MMIXJ]

terry,

outstanding! sounds like a win-win indeed. http://forums.mtbr.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

...thanks, i will give you a call tomorrow.

terry

[YELLAHEEP]

Maybe Troy can be showing those steps on your rig to some of the group while i'm showing others the same steps on DJ's.



Nope, sorry. #1 - I gotta learn the gear install part, never done them and really need this knowledge. #2 - I ain't gonna be the one squat down to work on Terri's rig with this bum knee of mine. :D

[jdogg4]

Did you all want a D44 rear to work on still or?

[YELLAHEEP]

The D44 that was brought up originally was one that DJ had that would be finished, just needed installed. He was going to install it while the front was being done - pretty simple swap of the whole axle unit, nothing involving gears.

Sounds like there's enough going on with the full front rebuild and MMIXJ's front ball joints happening in the background.

Bounce it off Terry, but I imagine he'll have his hands full for a good portion of the afternoon.

Again, the intention of the "tech seminar" is for several people to get together in a class setting and learn, not so much hands on. If there's interest in having a group 'wrenching day where everyone brings their projects to one location and those that don't have a project come and help, I'm all for discussing that as a future event, but that would require a VERY understanding shop owner and/or tradesman to have that much free work and experience being delt out.

[87xjco]

I think you're right Troy, we have our hands full for this event.

Don't feel like this is your only chance to get your axle rebuilds done or to get help doing your own.

I think most everybody will get a good working knowledge and feel alot better about tackling a D30 or the very similar D35 and D44 rebuild themselves.

And there seems to be several willing, experienced people willing to lend a hand to a member that may need it.

We can also do some video taping of this event and make tapes available to NAXJA members.

Terry

[jdogg4]

NO thats fine I might have not said that right. I thought it was to do a d44 gear swap. I thought you were going to try and do it with the axle under the jeep and I thought what a PITA you know. Now it sounds like your just pulling an axle out and swapping it with another axle I take it, So this isn't a gear swap install tech thing going on just parts swap then?

I'm looking at learning how to do gears at this point. Need to do them on the D44 and HPD30 I got. I have the gears and install kits, but want to walk through with someone on how to set them up the right way.

I'm not looking at other people doing my work for me. Looking at learning how to do the gear setup myself. Sorry if it is coming across that way.

[Seiler]

Can't make it afterall. UPS wants me to work tomorrow.

Scott

[MMIXJ]

So this isn't a gear swap install tech thing going on just parts swap then?
no, it is a "gear swap install tech thing"... on the front axle. DJ was also thinking about throwing the 44 under the rear since it is a simple swap.

basically a front-end tear down on both jeeps-- then gears, etc on DJ's and ball joints on mine.

should be great fun and an awesome learning op (thanks terry).

(the other) terry

[YELLAHEEP]

That's correct. DJ's axle will be torn down to nothing but the housing. New gears, new locker, new bearings, new seals, new alloy axle shafts and HD u-joints of some sort, and the R&R of the brakes and unit bearings. The only thing NOT being done on DJ's rig are the ball joints...... That's where MMIXJ's rig comes in.

Definitely a comprehensive look at the repair and modification of the D30. Plus, DJ's rig has custom high-steer and the over-axle track bar bracket mod already done so many of you will probably be interested in seeing what a lifted XJ with correct front geometry looks like.

[jdogg4]

Ok cool thanks thats clear sorry guys I'm on my fifth monday this week. So ready to go home and crash after a few drinks.

[MMIXJ]

DJ just called me from the hospital, and he said to go ahead and put those alloy shafts in my front end... :callme:

really. no need to call him and verify.
:eeks1:

[87xjco]

Wait, you mean we have to put things back together too?

Uh oh!!

[YELLAHEEP]

Dude, I say we sell the locker, gears, alloys and new unit bearings to the highest bidder at the seminar and give it back to him with a hollow D30 and stubs holding the old unit bearings in place...... :D

Or, better yet, let's just sit around drinking beer and just tell him we did all the swap stuff........:gag:

[87xjco]

Dude, I say we sell the locker, gears, alloys and new unit bearings to the highest bidder at the seminar and give it back to him with a hollow D30 and stubs holding the old unit bearings in place...... :D

Or, better yet, let's just sit around drinking beer and just tell him we did all the swap stuff........:gag:

I like your thinking, when I had the Tru-Trac in my D30, you couldn't tell any difference in the drivability. Unfortunately this was true on the trail too.

So...if it was left out......... hum.

[Kittrell]

Don't be rippin' on my True Tracs...............:nono:

[MMIXJ]

massive thanks to terry for a very educational afternoon (and evening). ;)

...and don't believe anything you hear about any alleged ball joint installation gone awry; no pix, no proof.

:cheers:

[87xjco]

It was a long day but good to have some of the guys out and take some of the mystery out of gear install.

Nice to meet everyone!!

We did struggle with getting the gear set-up to come out right.

I think the biggest problem we had is that the set of shims that came with the master kit, did not have any .001 shims in it.

So when we tried to do small changes to the set-ups we would swap with a few different thicker shims in an attempt to make small changes.

Like for instance if a shim pack had a .006 and a .008 and a .010 and a .020 in it. We could take out the .010 and add a .008 for a total change of .002.

But it seems like we kept having to much of a change with those type shim swaps.

I finally got out the box of Dana 44 shims that I had left over from several installs, and it had the same size carrier shims, and several were .001

I think we had the pinion in and out about 5 times before the depth and the bearing pre-load were good.

The carrier was much harder to get good backlash. We must of had it in and out at least a dozen times before I finally dug out those D44 .001 shims. Then we got good backlash and bearing pre-load on it, and then we were finally able take off the set-up bearings and press on the new bearings.

One of the harder set-ups i've had to do. Glad it wasn't out on the trail.

Thanks for coming out everyone and I hope it was educational.


Note to self: watch the other installs going on in the shop a little closer, just in case someone were to install a ball joint upside down and then have to knock it back out.

[MMIXJ]

Note to self: watch the other installs going on in the shop a little closer, just in case someone were to install a ball joint upside down and then have to knock it back out.
just to clarify (ahem), the ball joint in question was not installed upside down, but rather just pressed in from the wrong direction :doh:
(up from bottom of ear, instead of down from top). :confused1

thanks again terry, the timing was perfect!


...though i guess i've been spending too much time w/ mountain bikers, 'cuz i apparently brought too much beer. ;)
:cheers:

[Frank Z]

just to clarify (ahem), the ball joint in question was not installed upside down, but rather just pressed in from the wrong direction :doh:
(up from bottom of ear, instead of down from top). :confused1

Your not the first person to make that mistake.:gag:

Been there, done that, got the tee shirt...workin' on the hat!:cheers:

[Idiot Wind]

Thanks for coming out everyone and I hope it was educational.
well, the fact I understood your post means ya did a good job :cheers: Thanks to those that put this together. I got more knowledge in 3 hours then I have over 3 years and 10,000 locker/ls type threads.

[Rockken]

I think this tech seminar was great. Big thanks to Terry for taking the time to show us how to do these installs. He explained things very well and gave pointers to help the install go smoothly. I'm in for the next one, schedule permitting.