3.8L that bad? (4 dr wrangler) (hemi?)

[pipes94xj]

It has been way too long since I've been active, but a year without your xj will do that to you. Anyways.. I'm starting to strongly think about the purchase of a 4dr wrangler..but heres my issue:

My 97 4dr sport curb weight: 3,153lbs 190hp (16.59 hp to wt ratio) 225 torque (14.01 torque to wt ratio)

09 4 door wrangler curb weight 4,100 202hp (20.3 hp to wt ratio) 240 torque (17.08 torque to wt ratio)

Is this a dumb way to conclude that the wrangler is going to be a dog? We all know even adding headers, cat backs, intakes, re-gearing and even chips, 33s-35s is tough on our 4.0s...so if I throw a 3.5 on a new JK and 35's...that thing is going to blow.

Any chance Jeep would ever offer an optional hemi (even if a smaller one)? They shouldn't be afraid of mpg, not like 15 is good anyway! I'm guessing since they just put out that 3.8 powerplant, they won't change it. I don't have the time or the money to do a swap myself....just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts. Thanks guys!

Ps. I'm in sunny San Diego now....amazing how many xjs are running out here!

[WB9YZU]

Power to weight ratio is a good aproximation of accelleration if gearing and tires are the same. Final ration means a great deal as does available low end torque. The lower the final gear ration, and the greater the low end engine torque, the faster it will be off the line.

Tire size is tough on any engine if the axles are not regeared to put the engine in it's power band. Look at a number of big Chevys with huge tires and the owner didn't regear, they can barely get out of their own way.

Damler designed the 3.8, and they put it in Jeeps. Buy it, don't buy it, whatever... It's the only game in town.

As to whether Jeep will offer a Hemi in a Wrangler, no one here will know. I don't know of any "seers" or psychics in the Club.... :D

Ron

[xjclassic2000]

I seem to remember reading that next year they are putting in a new 3.6L that should be WAY better. Same one they are using in the 2011 Grand cherokee. Its a pretty advanced engine... variable valve timing (except for the grand cherokee), direct injection etc... It should be making around 280hp, and 260tq. I dont think they're planning on any other engines.

[xjclassic2000]

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html

[xjtrailrider]

we have a 08 JK sahara 2 door and it has plenty of spunk on the stockish 32" tires. I could easily run 33's and be fine with the stock gears.

[tbburg]

Spent 3 days with a rental 'couple years ago. 'Power was adequate, but not spectacular. I'd say slapping a set of 35"s on one with no other changes would have the same result as 35"s on a stock Cherokee; miserable, but you could live with it.

There's a couple companies that do turn-key hemi conversions, if you don't mind paying through the nose. As far a Cryco ever offering it. I'd say forget it.

[crimsondragon]

My dad owns an '08. He blew the motor once already. Only 17k miles. Required a rebuild 3k miles ago. Now it's acting up already. I think it has a misfire.

[pipes94xj]

Good stuff guys. I know Burnsville Off Road offers it (cheapest coming in at $20,000!) and AEV sells the kits, was just curious. (500 hp wrangler, I can't imagine.)

Anybody ever see that NFL player that had a Hennessy Viper motor sqeezed into his wrangler? I want to say he played for the Vikings maybe?

Looks like I will wait for that new motor then possibly. I'm sure a lot of you are like me....I hate waiting!!

F me....I know I'm going to go test drive one. Updates to come. lol.

[pipes94xj]

Wow, that's just unacceptable. Feel for your dad. Did they at least let him drive a charger while it was getting worked on?

[bjoehandley]

My folks have a '06 Town and Country Touring with the 3.8l V-6, it's a decent motor for the 4400lb Minivan and sounds pretty decent through the stock muffler to my ear, but a 5000+ pound 4dr JK, it just ain't enough motor. I was talking to a 4dr JK owner today at my local RC crawler com and he said he get's lousy mileage and performance out of it........but would trade it for a Diesel powered JK if one is offered!

[crimsondragon]

Wow, that's just unacceptable. Feel for your dad. Did they at least let him drive a charger while it was getting worked on?
Nah he had to take public transit. Wasn't too happy about that. At the very least it has a powertrain warranty so everything has been free so far. When it was running right, I test drove it and floored it. Power is lacking to say the least. I'm pretty sure my XJ has more power than it.

[ECKSJAY]

He blew the motor once already.

He sounds lonely. Maybe you should spend more time with him so he stops doing desperate things.

[pipes94xj]

LOL ^ (harsh!) - I know my dad hasn't had sex since he made me...just throwin that out there.

As I expected, looks as though I'll try and hold off for that revamped 3.6L. Good stuff gents, honestly appreciated.

If anyone knows of someone running properly geared and maybe some upgrades done on a 3.8l with 33.5-35s, their insight would be much appreciated =)

[Johnnie Walker]

Why not find a wrecked/salvaged or older one and do an LSx swap?

[bjoehandley]

That new Phoenix motor looks to be a good one, should be an easy one to change the displacement on if they need to as well.

[tbburg]

That new Phoenix motor looks to be a good one, should be an easy one to change the displacement on if they need to as well.'Have to see some real world longevity study on that. Thin-wall aluminum castings? They've made some great improvements in metallurgy and casting technology in the last decade, but even with iron cylinder liners, I don't think those are going to last to 150K

[98XJSport]

I have had good luck so far with my 09 2 door. Going from the XJ to DDing a JK Ive noticed 2 things. Power-wise, the JK probably has more over the 4.0. But its so much smoother and quiet it never feels like. You step on a 4.0 and you can feel it. Step on the 3.8 and you hear it a little thats about it. The drive by wire feel is a little different too, something you dont realize is making it feel sluggish until you get back behind a 4.0.

Ive got ~22K on it with no problems so far. Came with the 32s and 3.73 gears. I threw a set of 33s on with no suspension changes, feels fine stock. If I go to 35s it will be about the same as an XJ, liveable but not the best.
A 4 door will probably be a bit worse off due to weight.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/Rhutchinson123/Pismo%20Beach/103_0750.jpg

[xjtrailrider]

^^^Nice JK!

We have 27k on ours and still on the stock tires, can't remember the size but they are close to 32". Our JK has 3.73 gearing, D-44 rear with LS, power package(door locks/windows), MyGiG navigation HD unit, Dual tops, remote start, premium sound with subwoofer and some stuff I can't remember.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp266/xjtrailrider/commander/P1020176.jpg

The problem i see with putting a Hemi in one of these is that one mod will lead to another. The stock axles will not handle the power/torque the Hemi puts out.

[DrMoab]

The problem i see with putting a Hemi in one of these is that one mod will lead to another. The stock axles will not handle the power/torque the Hemi puts out.

Me thinks that most people who have the money to do a Hemi conversion has no problems spending money on axles and other upgrades.

[tbburg]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/Rhutchinson123/Pismo%20Beach/103_0750.jpgThat right there is the only advertising Jeep ever needed.
Nice pic!

[98XJSport]

Thanks. Its very photogenic when it's clean. Which isn't often.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/Rhutchinson123/Pismo%20Beach/103_0760.jpg

Also note if your looking at these used, up until 08 the tow package came with 4.10s but in 09 it came with 3.73s. I think it would be perfect with 33s and 4.10s. Might have to trade in for a rubi some day.

[Ghost]

If I'm not correct please correct me but didn't the OP ask for info on the 4 door? The 2 door is quite a bit smaller and the weighs less. Hence you would have a better power to weight ratio. A good friend has a 4 door JK and told me over the weekend that he was getting rid of it BC of the gutless motor. He owns Ironman 4x4 fab if you wanted to contact him and get his feedback.

[bjoehandley]

A good friend has a 4 door JK and told me over the weekend that he was getting rid of it BC of the gutless motor. He owns Ironman 4x4 fab if you wanted to contact him and get his feedback.

Sounds like the guy I talked to Saturday, almost word for word.

[98XJSport]

As I said, its ok in the 2 door but Im sure a 4 door would be worse off due to the added weight.

Its funny to look under the hood. Most vehicles engine compartments are designed around the engine. And the JK looks like it should have a straight 6 in there,so with the v6 there is tons of room. iIts no wonder people are doing the hemi swaps. They definately left it open for a v8 option from the factory, but the whole economy thing has really put a damper on pricier options.

[tbburg]

...,Most vehicles engine compartments are designed around the engine. And the JK looks like it should have a straight 6 in there,so with the v6 there is tons of room,...Not designed for a V-8. Sorry. The first jeeps had relatively small engine compartments but in a TINY vehicle. As the jeeps grew longer/wider, they kept the same proportion hood/fenders, and the engine compartment grew as a result. The only time the dimensions were changed to accommodate an engine, the main changes were to move the axle forward. The biga**ed engine compartment on the current JK has to do with being, what, around a foot wider then, and proportionally similar to the CJ-7 that already had room for a V-8(or a I-6).

[Johnnie Walker]

It is too bad that we didn't get the CRD option in NA.. A buddy of mine in Aussieland has a JK with CRD +5 spd auto.

[98XJSport]

Not designed for a V-8. Sorry. The first jeeps had relatively small engine compartments but in a TINY vehicle. As the jeeps grew longer/wider, they kept the same proportion hood/fenders, and the engine compartment grew as a result. The only time the dimensions were changed to accommodate an engine, the main changes were to move the axle forward. The biga**ed engine compartment on the current JK has to do with being, what, around a foot wider then, and proportionally similar to the CJ-7 that already had room for a V-8(or a I-6).

Who said anything about it being designed for a v8? The JK engine compartment has the length you expect to fit in a I6 with mech. fan. Just like all the other wranglers out there before this one. In putting a v6 with no mech. fan, it leaves lots of underhood room between the grill and firewall. Thats all Im saying, and why many explore the v8 swap.

And as you said, being proportioned like the CJ which had the width for a v8, its open to be an easy factory option. It was designed when they are putting the hemi in almost everything they can. If sales were up and they hadn't gone through all the financial issues over the last few years, who knows what they might have done. We can only guess, they also axed the XJ so who knows what they might do next :dunno:

[dhunter19]

Granted coming from a GTO I was probably NOT going to get excited over the acceleration of a 4dr JK, but I could barely live with it with 33" tires and a small lift.

Automatic - going down the highway at 65mph, the slightest incline or headwind would knock the JK out of overdrive. And it would seesaw like that through the whole trip. Some folks say to just leave OD off. Well, then the mileage sucks even worse and it can get buzzy after a while.

Finally I realized regearing was my only salvation. So I laid out $1300 for 5.13s installed and another $300 for a Superchips programmer. IMHO, the best mods you can make for under $2K.

Now I'm happy(ier). Acceleration is tolerable, highway manners are much improved and my mileage actually went up 2mpg when I was expecting it to go down. It seems much more sprightly offroad too.

I think the 4dr JK is just too porky for the little 3.8 UNLESS you leave it stock. No tires, no lift, nothing. And if I had to do it over again I would buy the 6spd. I made a conscious decision to buy an auto with this vehicle. First time in almost 30yrs of car buying. Why? Because when I was in the Army I had a Jeep as my assigned vehicle. Loved it. But the few times I did get stuck it was a PITA to row through the gears trying to get unstuck. But the manual is probably easier to live with if one decides not to regear. Ah well. Live and learn.

[Brad M.]

Any chance Jeep would ever offer an optional hemi (even if a smaller one)?

Not likely. Especially in light of the legislation Obama just passed upping the MPG ratings on new cars and trucks to 35 MPG by 2016. Goodbye Hemi (unless it goes hybrid, which it most likely will have to).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100401/ap_on_bi_ge/us_fuel_efficiency

On the topic of 35's on the 4-door JK, the local TeraFlex rep was involved in a discussion on another forum where he stated that the JK does in fact love deep gears. He recommended 5.13's for 35's IIRC.