It has begun -Dial Up Shoot yourself-

[JamesD]

Well here is my build thread. Hope I can provide some helpful insight where needed. I am starting out with an 89 XJ that I bought from olivedrabcj7. It came with the puke gut trans and 231. It had a 3" lift on 31"s. For later reference though I am going to run the drive train that is currently in it until I break something and I know I will but I am on a budget so I will deal with it as it comes. I do not go EXTREME crawling all the time. I want to have soemthing to play with in the woods and go on some rather extensive trails with some crawling but not solely for that purpose. Basically I am starting out with a Dana 70HD rear and Dana 50 front. I know I know I know about the 50 but it will suffice to get it lifted and I will change it once I have a $K to drop on a 60. I have 4 front leafs from a 76-87 Chevy which measure 44" ete. They are designed for 12"s of lift for that truck and I know it sounds like alot but they are very similar in design to the 44044 but with 3 more inches in height. I bought 2 sets of mounting brackets from ballistic and some front bumper mounts. THANKS guys great stuff. I also have four revolvers for it and here again I know I know I know just trying my options. I picked them up cheap. My welding holds well a little messy at times but strong. I will describe each pic below and if you have any questions feel free to ask. Thanks


This is when I first got it and some of my friends decided to have some fun with tape and things while I was gone for the weekend. And no I am not mexican - long story
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/P9030140.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/P9030141.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/P9030143.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/P9030144.jpg


Finally got it halfway cleaned up and back to my shop after I put a fuel pump U joints and a harmonic balancer on it.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PA210155.jpg

OK here is the deal with this. I have the lame puke gut transmission that the mount costs more than the trans is worth. I basically wanted to go play in the jeep so I rigged this up. It's a bolt with a stack of washers in between the two plates of the mount. Suprisingly works quite well after hours of thrashing on it.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PA210150.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PA210153.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PA210154.jpg

If you notice here I have moved some things around so that I could place my overflow next to the radiator. I did the GDI swap and I am in the process of adding the 10" fans for awesome cooling.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PA210164.jpg

The first of disassembly.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PA210166.jpg

Hooray I bought a sawzaw
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PA270167.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PA270177.jpg

This is my bumper that I "made" It is 2X4 steel 65" long I think. Simple enough. Use 8 grade 8 bolts in factory holes. Slim and strong! Fits perfectly in that groove if you have ever looked behind the bumper.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PB020180.jpg

[JamesD]

First mock of spring perches
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PB030182.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PB040190.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PB040192.jpg


OK I have ran U channel down the "rails" of the underbody and welded in nicely. I have not finished anything so please don't point out parts that are not fully welded because trust me I know. Also there is a pic of the spring sitting close to where it will be but needs to be mover farther back. CHECK THE WHEELBASE. Also If the springs were mounted and sat down on them it would be about 2" taller in the rear than the front with just springs touching the ground as compared to 3" lift on 31's in the front.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PB040196.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PB050204.jpg

Here is a pic of my bumper with the mounts welded on it. These are the ends of the factory spring welded on to attach the shackle too. It is a drop of 6" to a revolver shackle if that gives you an idea of height.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PB050207.jpg


Oh and I pulled the valve cover and look what I found. Ewwwwww
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/P9030146.jpg


Ok so here it is and please guys be constructive. I am open to suggestion but I just wanted to give everyone an update on what is going on. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks

[Ramsey]

Your hanging the rear shackles off the bumper with just the stock mounts?

[JamesD]

I am bracing everything. The bumper will be tied in with the cage. I will having bracing linking both rails togethar along with barcing with the cage and random triangulation throughout. This is just the prelims of things. It is no where near completion of fab and many more hours of welding.

[olivedrabcj7]

Glad to see the old jeep go to a good home. I would brace that suspension like forrest gumps legs. Sounds like it is going to need all the help it can get from reading your plans for it. Looks like a good start thus far!

[vetteboy]

This is my bumper that I "made" It is 2X4 steel 65" long I think. Simple enough. Use 8 grade 8 bolts in factory holes. Slim and strong!

= 8 grade 8 bolts in factory nuts tack welded to sheet metal? Great design if used in compression only (like, a bumper) but I'd really really consider doing a multi-plane mounting if you're going to do something like suspend half the jeep and brace the entire rear cage structure to it. Tie it in to the factory hitch mounting, for example, as this will give you more effective bracing both in tension and bending (as the spring hangers will place it in).

And on this...

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PB050207.jpg

you've got absolutely nothing in place to prevent those hangers from bending when loaded. It's spring steel so it WILL tend to flex wherever possible (and the cross-section is very inefficient at resisting bending as it is, by design). This isn't a huge problem in itself, but this will quickly fatigue the welded area, because you've destroyed the spring temper by welding to it. So all the welded area has completely different material properties than the rest of the spring and with the cycling it'll see as a shackle hanger, I don't see good things coming from this. Not to mention the added leverage you're placing on the rear bumper mounts which weren't designed for that kind of loading in the first place.

If you're set on that design, I would strongly recommend using some sort of box tube and welding it in multiple planes to the bumper, and using a spring bushing set in a piece of DOM.

I'm also curious about the anatomy here...how exactly are all these pieces connected to each other (and you cleaned all the areas before welding them there, right)?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/PB040192.jpg

I also would have used a taller section along the frame rails to get more effective bracing, but I think the C-channel you've got there is a reasonable choice.

[Ramsey]

Whatever you do, dont let matt work on it.

[JamesD]

Well here are my thoughts on the spring on the rear bumper. I was kind of pondering on the 3/4 elliptical and I understand that the geometry is different but the principle is relatively the same. I am hoping for a little cushion from the perches dut to the fact that the spring packs are fairly stiff. I have a tow hitch that I am going to weld to the bumper and use it's mounting as well for rigidity. And yes what I have welded was cleaned and edged to take a good hold. It may not seem well in teh pictures but it is very strong. Liek I said guys this is a work in progress and thank you to everyone for your suggestions and concerns.

Also I have some DOM with bushings but I was going for a little more ride quality and due to very little weight in the back I had hoped it would hold up. Also two of the bolts that hold the bumper on actually pass thru each spring so that will add some strength so to not solely rely on the welds.

Once I get it all mocked up I will then start putting in cross braces to add strength. Thanks for the input guys. Keep it coming.

[rehab]

wow...ok, sounds like you got yourself a little project...

[Capt. Nemo]

Wow. Got some nice booty fabbin' goin' on.



Where's the advanced part?

[shortxjdoug]

what leaf springs are those? They don't look like xj springs and they also look like they would take the weight of a fully loaded 1 ton truck to flex them :D

[shortxjdoug]

Wow. Got some nice booty fabbin' goin' on.


they were gonna finish the FAQ forum before they started on the booty fab subforum IIRC.....

[JamesD]

They are actually springs for a chevrolet truck. The reason I used these is that they are a narrower ete than the XJ which allow me to move the wheelbase farther out without too much of a hassle. They are very similar to the 44044 if you are familiar with them but about three inches taller.

[87xjco]

I know you asked for constructive critisism and you're not very far along yet but.....

I don't see any good coming out of that rear bumper leaf spring shackle combination. Sure with a lot of bracing to get around the weakness of the rear uni-body mounting points, it could be made strong enough, but you could build stronger/lighter reinforcement around the rails and mount the springs to that. I don't think your idea of using a vertical spring to help relieve the stiff springs will work, after all, the shackle will pivot and the flex of those leaf spring ends will never come into play. And I agree with above, spring steel is compromised when welded.

It seems like your hurrying yourself along and maybe using what ever materials you find in the scrap pile that require the least amount of prep. to use. The C-channel looks plenty strong enough, but why wouldn't you have it cleaned up better and cut it to length better, before welding it in.

I suggest slow down a little, think light and strong and what combination of materials will best achieve your goals.

Yes your current welds will probably be strong enough, and the un-trimmed state of those C-channels and other metal will not effect how the vehicle operates. But hey, you're posting this up on the internet and you're gonna want to be proud to show your work off. You're not gonna want to keep defending the function over appearance argument. Why not have both function and appearance? It's worth the extra effort.

My .02

[CRASH]

Doesn't look like you cleaned any of the zinc plating off of the frame rails before painting. Not only will that lead to a loss of brain cells, it makes for a very contaminated weld.

Oh, the rear suspension. My best advice to you is to cut off everything you've done thus far and start over with the stock mounts. They are pre-engineered by people with advanced college degrees to take suspension loads over the long term. Your "design" will fail shortly. As 87XJCO said, you need to think light and strong, the factory design is that, plus it's not a rock anchor hanging below the frame.

I hesitate to comment on your threads, however, as you have never taken my, or any one elses solicited advice in the past.

Good luck, you've got a booty-fabulous start.

[JamesD]

Well I have been told by EVERYONE that the factory stuff is too weak. That is why I am not using stock mounts. Everyone told me to "in-board" so that is what I did. I don't folow with what you are talking about "painting" because I have not painted anything. I do clean things before I weld them permenantly. This is not the final product guys. Everything is in the rough and not cleaned up. I understand that it looks bad with things not trimmed and grinded. I knew I should have not posted anything until I had cleaned it up and worked out the bugs because all I would get is flames. I had hoped for help not a hinderance. I know that the bumper alone is not strong enough to hold the spring but if it is used as a recovery point to pull it out of mud and bad spots then why can it not hold up the rear of an XJ that is very light to begin with once it is stripped and the roof removed. This is why I am taking the advice from above and putting my tow hitch brackets back under it and integrating it into the bumper for added support.

[87xjco]

I originally answered your post without having read any of your previous posts. I since have read many of them. After that experience, I feel as Crash did, you don't seem willing to accept any suggestions we have for you, and your easily upset by anyone who questions your choices.

Many responses you have received are from people with obvious vast amounts of experience in building XJ's. Use their knowledge, they're are giving it to you with the best of intentions.

I was not trying to flame you. Just trying to help.

I don't believe the guy's here really have any personal vendetta to flame you. We are XJ enthusiasts, we want to see good quality builds, we applaud ingenuity and inexpensive usage of materials and available parts. We try and help steer people from making mistakes that may cost them big money in the future or may be unsafe. We don't pull our punches or give praise to something we feel is undeserving. We also don't flame someone just because they are new or have a radical idea. (otherwise I would have been burnt to a crisp on my project)

Isn't this what you want from a forum?

You posted this in the advanced fabrication forum, you must have wanted or should have expected some feedback. Sorry it's not what you wanted.

One thing you'll always get when you post on NAXJA is honest feedback.

Whether you want it or not!!

end rant...

Good luck with the build!!

[JamesD]

I understand that you all are "trying" to help but*&$^&^$%UY^%$^&$# when someone tells me to cut everything up that I have done when they told me to do it I get kind of pissed. I don't have an extensive budget like some do and I am working with what I have and if they don't like it I will gladly take donations of whatver their endless budget allows. I understand that I am unorthodox in sorts but instead of basically saying I am a %())&$%$ idiot and telling me to start over after I have searched and this is what I ended up with, I only ask for ways to help me improve not a total reconstruction. I did search and I did ask alot of questions and you know what I ended up with is everyone telling me for simplicity use in boarded leafs all the way around and plate the "frame" and you know what, I am doing exactly that. CRASH you even said it yourself so I don't understand why what I am doing is so wrong. Disregard my welding capabilities because I trust it and I know it will hold. And regardless what you say I have taken your suggestions to heart or I wouldn't be doing what you said. I know the whole conv. about the Dana 50 but you know what I have 100 in it so it has to work for right now. I am not looking for praise as to what I do I am just looking for suggestion as to make it better and I don't understand why a total reconstruction will make it better when I am doing what is suggested. I have established the fact that I need to do some redesign on my rear mounts at the first time that someone posted about it. Please if you have concern then bring it up and try to help with it not be negative.

[rredalty]

I understand that you all are "trying" to help but*&$^&^$%UY^%$^&$# when someone tells me to cut everything up that I have done when they told me to do it I get kind of pissed. I don't have an extensive budget like some do and I am working with what I have and if they don't like it I will gladly take donations of whatver their endless budget allows. I understand that I am unorthodox in sorts but instead of basically saying I am a %())&$%$ idiot and telling me to start over after I have searched and this is what I ended up with, I only ask for ways to help me improve not a total reconstruction. I did search and I did ask alot of questions and you know what I ended up with is everyone telling me for simplicity use in boarded leafs all the way around and plate the "frame" and you know what, I am doing exactly that. CRASH you even said it yourself so I don't understand why what I am doing is so wrong. Disregard my welding capabilities because I trust it and I know it will hold. And regardless what you say I have taken your suggestions to heart or I wouldn't be doing what you said. I know the whole conv. about the Dana 50 but you know what I have 100 in it so it has to work for right now. I am not looking for praise as to what I do I am just looking for suggestion as to make it better and I don't understand why a total reconstruction will make it better when I am doing what is suggested. I have established the fact that I need to do some redesign on my rear mounts at the first time that someone posted about it. Please if you have concern then bring it up and try to help with it not be negative.


Looks great to me. I have dealt with the same shit on here and the way I built my last Jeep worked flawlessly. Don't worry about what anyone says, they are not driving it. Mine looked like some hardcore booty fab but it worked and surprised more than you could imagine. Keep doing your work and keep the pics coming.

[Beej]

James, I have to say, as an observer, you haven't been flamed or called out in this thread. You have just been given advice. Advice which you asked for. Feel free to disregard it as you so choose and build up any way you want. No one is telling you different. If something doesn't work, you will discover it for yourself along the way.

One thing that I think you misunderstood though, was the comment about grinding the paint off. I think the point was that if you don't completely grind off the galvanized coating on your Jeep before welding, you subject yourself to poisonous gases that are emitted when welding to a zinc coated surface, and also compromise the integrity of the welds by welding directly to the galvanized steel. It will probably work, its just adding in some potential failure where it could have been avoided with a little elbow grease.

I say keep working at it, and if you are puzzled by something someone says, just ask for clarification. I for one applaud your efforts. Its better than I could do...

:thumbup:

[vetteboy]

I understand that you all are "trying" to help but*&$^&^$%UY^%$^&$# when someone tells me to cut everything up that I have done when they told me to do it I get kind of pissed. I don't have an extensive budget like some do and I am working with what I have and if they don't like it I will gladly take donations of whatver their endless budget allows. I understand that I am unorthodox in sorts but instead of basically saying I am a %())&$%$ idiot and telling me to start over after I have searched and this is what I ended up with, I only ask for ways to help me improve not a total reconstruction. I did search and I did ask alot of questions and you know what I ended up with is everyone telling me for simplicity use in boarded leafs all the way around and plate the "frame" and you know what, I am doing exactly that. CRASH you even said it yourself so I don't understand why what I am doing is so wrong. Disregard my welding capabilities because I trust it and I know it will hold. And regardless what you say I have taken your suggestions to heart or I wouldn't be doing what you said. I know the whole conv. about the Dana 50 but you know what I have 100 in it so it has to work for right now. I am not looking for praise as to what I do I am just looking for suggestion as to make it better and I don't understand why a total reconstruction will make it better when I am doing what is suggested. I have established the fact that I need to do some redesign on my rear mounts at the first time that someone posted about it. Please if you have concern then bring it up and try to help with it not be negative.

I've said this before:

There are three things that come to mind when building a rig like this.

- cheap
- reliable
- trailworthy (intended to do extreme stuff beyond stock capabilities)

In a given build, you can only ever pick two of these. You seem to have concentrated primarily on the 'cheap' part and disregarded the rest.

Inboarded springs isn't a fad, it's not a fashion statement, and it's certainly not something you do just because someone else did it. From your pictures you seem to have relocated the spring hangers about 1" inboard and about 3" further to the ground. Seriously, what benefit does this give you? Is your only gain here that you don't have to cut and reweld perches on an axle? You'll have to do that anyway to make your driveline angles correct. Meanwhile you've compromised ground clearance and frame rail structural integrity for what appears to be very little gain. If there's more to it that I can't see from the pictures, then by all means, post up.

It's also statements like this that confuse people:

about the Dana 50 but you know what I have 100 in it so it has to work for right now.

No, it doesn't. You telling it that it has to work doesn't make it behave any better. Meanwhile you're stuck with crappy leaf spring placement and a weak axle that'll leave you stranded and spending more cash just when you're trying to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Whatever happened to your eBay auction for this, by the way?

Another thing I've tended to notice so far is your complete disregard for material section properties. The two most common things used to brace the frame rails are 3x3x1/4" angle and 4x6x1/4" box cut in half. This is what you'd find on a search on the subject. Both end up going nearly to the floorpan along the frame rail. Why? Because the vertical part is what lends the most bending strength to the section, not the flat part on the bottom, and it connects right where the unibody rails connect, at the floor. What I see at your spring mounts is a clusterXXXX of c-channel, flat bar, angle, and rust that doesn't really give anyone a clear idea of how you've actually gone about reinforcing things there. How have you welded it to the unibody, and why didn't you cut it to length beforehand?

I'm also guessing that you'll be removing the rear wheelwell area due to the extended wheelbase. I hope you appreciate just how much structural integrity you've lost by chopping both the roof and the wheelwells. I did both of these, and I could grab the rear deck area and move it up and down a few inches by hand without moving the rest of the truck. Definitely not what you want for something that'll see a lot of force. You'll want to include some diagonal bracing to forward of the rear deck area, tying all the cage hoops into each other, and likewise connecting all of it to the rear frame rail area, and certainly the bumper if you insist on using it for spring mounts. And please, if you do this, make some real mounts there. I've already highlighted the disadvantages of welding to spring steel, and if you don't understand the benefits and inherent safety of rigid suspension mounting points, please post now.

Lastly...don't get pissed just because you went ahead and did a whole bunch of work when you thought you were following advice. If I told you to go fly a plane, and you did so and crashed it, by your logic you'd be pissed at me because I planted the idea in your head in the first place. Nevermind the fact that you failed to adequately research and implement what you were doing (I believe I suggested doing more research in a few posts). Just because someone said stretch the wheelbase and inboard the springs does NOT mean that any way you can come up with to accomplish this will be a good idea. I'm not saying my buildup is perfect, because it isn't. But very few (if any) are, and the fact that I've built a few suspensions under this jeep and on many other vehicles already gives me a little bit of confidence in what I'm doing.

Bottom line is we're just trying to save you a lot of problems in the future. There are people on this board which much more experience than you (and even myself!) and it would be nice if you could show some consideration for their advice every so often.

And if not, there's a fellow by the name of StrokedDodge over on Pirate that could probably give you some good buildup hints as well...

[JamesD]

OK guys like I have done in the past I busted out the grinder and started ripping. Everything is removed other than the rails on the "frame". Where would you all suggest placement for the springs when I am using a spring that is 44" ete spring with a 40.5" ctc mount width on the axle. I looked at using the stock rear mount last night but it is setup for a narrower spring and also it will not allow for the revolver without extensive modification. Any suggestions because I am basically starting at square one. The front mount is non existant from the plating of the frame so that is not an option. Any ideas or guidance?

[ashmanjeepxj]

OK guys like I have done in the past I busted out the grinder and started ripping. Everything is removed other than the rails on the "frame". Where would you all suggest placement for the springs when I am using a spring that is 44" ete spring with a 40.5" ctc mount width on the axle. I looked at using the stock rear mount last night but it is setup for a narrower spring and also it will not allow for the revolver without extensive modification. Any suggestions because I am basically starting at square one. The front mount is non existant from the plating of the frame so that is not an option. Any ideas or guidance?

The stick welded main leafs to the bumper was funny, Im happy you removed it.

I would do a normal shackle not a double shackle, not a 3/4elip. a normal shackle will be most reliable.
Just tie some angle iron or 3in wide plate the rear bumper so the rear bumper and the rear frame rails are all solid one piece, with the 3in wide plate or angle at the rear frame you have a flat surface on the bottom of the frame to make some shackle mounts. Just get some 1.5in or 1.75in Inner diameter tubing and weld it to the flat surface on the bottom of the frame. take two pieces of 2.5in 1/4in or thicker flat bar with at least 5in distance holes and make them into shackles. get soem 1.5in or 1.75in polly bushings to match what ever tubing you find. These are the frist shackles I made on my front leafs like 4 years ago. I cleaned it up a bit but you get the idea..

http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/shackles.jpg

http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/shackle_hanger.jpg

Do you have a buddie with a mig welder you could borrow? Arc welding to the unibody is really hard. Youll likely get it too cold or burn through. at least for the unibody fram welding get a mig with gas if you can find one.


Before you get too far along, you might want to consider dove tailing the rear fenders, I narrowed mine abit and it worked out great. I wouldent touch the sheet metal if all you have is the arc welder, that would be tough.
Just an idea.. I dont want you to get in over your head if you dont have the right tools for sheet metal.
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/rearlowview.jpg

[ashmanjeepxj]

Inboarded springs isn't a fad, it's not a fashion statement, and it's certainly not something you do just because someone else did it.l...

In another thread he was asking how to get more flex for cheap using leaf springs I suggested to run inboarded rear leaf springs. I recommended it over 3/4 elip, double shackle or revolver shackles.

He wants to put 44in tires under this thing and wants it really tall.

The leafs he has are stiff, but they should flex since they will be inboarded.
I think this is actually the best for what he wants for what he is building it for.

This guy needs all the help he can get.

[JamesD]

I will be the first to tell you I need help :)

So basically I can put this directly onto the bottom of the rails in the back where the tow mounts are. Also would it be strong enough if I just utilized those two bolt holes to mount it to or do I still need to weld on top of that. Thanks so much guys for bearing with me. I know I am a knuckle head about things but I really want to have a fun XJ in the end. Thanks again.

[Matt S.]

I will be the first to tell you I need help :)

So basically I can put this directly onto the bottom of the rails in the back where the tow mounts are. Also would it be strong enough if I just utilized those two bolt holes to mount it to or do I still need to weld on top of that. Thanks so much guys for bearing with me. I know I am a knuckle head about things but I really want to have a fun XJ in the end. Thanks again.

So stick with 33s.

[vetteboy]

In another thread he was asking how to get more flex for cheap using leaf springs I suggested to run inboarded rear leaf springs. I recommended it over 3/4 elip, double shackle or revolver shackles.

He wants to put 44in tires under this thing and wants it really tall.

The leafs he has are stiff, but they should flex since they will be inboarded.
I think this is actually the best for what he wants for what he is building it for.

This guy needs all the help he can get.

I understood that, but I also think that inboarding them 1" on either side on a rear end that light isn't going to make enough difference to justify the loss of ground clearance either. Maybe truly inboard them inside the frame rails, so you can keep the same height as the factory hanger but move them in about 6" per side. You'll lose stability on something that tall but it'll help the flex situation.

[JamesD]

Don't get me wrong I do want this thing to have some flex but I was worried about stability with going in that far being that tall. I am sure it will be top heavy even at the placement it is currently at. These are easy to move and to fab it is the rear that I seem to have so many problems with on placement. Is it that bad of an idea to run the same width as the perches on my rear axle. At the level of in boarding slightly puts me directly in line with the mount where it is currently at in the front and below the mounting points for the tow bar in the rear. This was a factor to why I placed them there. I was hoping for a best of both by having somewhat in boarded along with a good mounting surface.

[vetteboy]

You're going to have to cut the perches off the axle anyway to get the pinion angle right. So there's no real reason to make that your deciding factor in spring placement.

Check out this build thread, he has some nice ideas for an extended rear spring setup:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=507763

I still think that putting them in further won't hurt you with springs like those, especially given the weight you'll have back there. You can always run a factory rear swaybar if it does have stability problems, and also what you do in the front will greatly affect stability as well.

[JamesD]

Thanks for the link. Definately useful. :)

[JamesD]

I am trying to get info on what this guy did as I type. Hopefully I can get some good insight on how this worked for him. And thanks alot vette for the link

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/th45cruzr/Wheelbase%20Stretch/IMG_4368.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/th45cruzr/Wheelbase%20Stretch/IMG_4367.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/th45cruzr/Wheelbase%20Stretch/IMG_4375.jpg

[Tommy_Harrell]

JamesD, you might even consider a mix and match pack of stock XJ and chevy springs, the pack you have looks very stout and there will be little to no weight over the rear axle. Also what are you planning to do for a fuel tank?

[Roxtar]

AS I see it, the problem is you've started this entire project based on a bad premise.
Did someone actually tell you it's possible to properly build an XJ for 44" tires on the cheap?!
If so, find them, beat them to death with a hose clamp (it'll take some time but it's possible), and bury the body (I have a shovel you can use if needed) so they can never give advice to anyone again.

44" tires and CHEAP?
Comon, that's just plain stupid.
It also goes a long way toward explaining some of the ideas you've come up with.
It's impossible to properly build an XJ for 35s cheaply.
Why, in God's name, do you think you need 44" tires?!

BTW James, booty-fab isn't a compliment.

[JamesD]

Well we do alot of riding down here along with the Superlift park and we have alot of guys running alot bigger than 44's and when we are hittin the trails 35 won't cut it. I am not using this thing solely for rock crawling. I am not expecting this thing to go up 5's every time I take it out or at all for that matter. I want something that I can go play in on the trails and if need be crawl up stuff but that is why I am not afraid to go with leafs instead fo coils. I did ask how to get decent flex out of a leaf but that is just trying to design the best setup possible for what I need.

As far as a gas tank I was going to use the OEM if it does not get in the way of my leaf packs and if they do then I have a fuel cell. There is not alot of room in the back of these as you all know when you have a jack and tools and a spare and an ice chest of course so I am trying to leave it there and utilize as much space as possible. I also just put a new pump in it. :)

[Roxtar]

James, have you seen what's being run by guys like CRASH, Jes, Capn, Sick Rick, and Goat on 35"-37" tires?
I'd venture a guess that there isn't a whole lot in Superlift that's tougher than JV, The Hammers, or any number of places in Az.
If you just want a mud monster, you're starting with the wrong vehicle.
Look into a '78 K5, or RamCharger.

[JamesD]

I know that. I really like my XJ and that's what I want to build. I understand that the chassis itself is not designed to take 44's but I may only run 40's and I am not pushing it as hard as the others will. I am not looking for a mud monster I just want something that I can run around in and if I need to get thru some rocks it will fair nicely or a DEEP water crossing I don't have to drive 5 miles to find a shallow spot.

[Roxtar]

I know that. I really like my XJ and that's what I want to build.I really like Farrari Enzos and want one.
The fact that I want one doesn't mean I can afford one.I understand that the chassis itself is not designed to take 44's but I may only run 40's and I am not pushing it as hard as the others will. I am not looking for a mud monster I just want something that I can run around in and if I need to get thru some rocks it will fair nicely or a DEEP water crossing I don't have to drive 5 miles to find a shallow spot.Like I said, you're starting out with faulty reasoning. Everything done based on that reasoning will be, by definition, faulty.

#1) You do not need 44s, or even 40s, to run Superlift.
#2) You can't afford to build an XJ to run 40s. Sorry.
How often are your 44" buddies going to invite you along if they have to drag your broken ass out every trip?
#3) If #1 above is an incorrect statement, you need to learn to drive.

[vetteboy]

the chassis itself is not designed to take 44's

I'm glad we at least agree on this.

[JamesD]

I AM NOT BUILDING THIS TO RUN SUPERLIFT!!!!!!!! This is why I asked for constructive criticism not someone bashing me for an idea because it is out of the ordibnary just because of you in all of your glory have never ran a larger tire on an XJ does not mean it cannot be done. I am building this regardless of what you say. I am asking for help not someone saying it can be done. This is good though because people like you drive me even more to have sleepless night of working on this just to prove you wrong. It can be done and it will be done and it has been done before.

[87xjco]

I don't know if I agree that it can't be done cheap. Not likely to end up cheap, but not impossible. But you almost would have to work or own a junkyard to have access to all the cheap used parts you would need.

But it will take a huge amount of labor and talent and many of the things you'll be doing to make an XJ that capable, are prone to failure even with the best fabrication work.

If you already have one ton axles, access to cheap steel and if you are a good smart welder/fabricator. That would save alot of money. If you're starting with a good running XJ to begin with, that would help save money.

The Dana 50 is not a good 1 ton axle choice for 44's, but once the fabrication is done to get that axle in place, a replacement will be easy to put in.

I do agree there are alot better platforms to start off with and accomplish your goals.

[JamesD]

THANK YOU. You see where I am coming from. I do have access to alot of resources and I receieved the axles dirt cheap so this is why I am using them at least for the build process. The Dana 50 will come out eventually but to build and get moving it is fine. I have alot of time to devote to this and required resources so that is why I am going as cheap as possible because I can. I know my welds are not pretty but they hold just fine. I know there are better platforms but I relly like the XJ and I will do it. I know that there will be trial and error and this is why I have cut everything off twice so I am open to suggestion but please back it so that I will see relevance. And please don't just post saying your dumb for doing this go get a bolt on and 35's you know why because I'm not regardless what you say and you are wasting my and your time. And thanks again 87xjco for understanding my point of view.

[vetteboy]

I don't know if I agree that it can't be done cheap. Not likely to end up cheap, but not impossible. But you almost would have to work or own a junkyard to have access to all the cheap used parts you would need.

But it will take a huge amount of labor and talent and many of the things you'll be doing to make an XJ that capable, are prone to failure even with the best fabrication work.

If you already have one ton axles, access to cheap steel and if you are a good smart welder/fabricator. That would save alot of money. If you're starting with a good running XJ to begin with, that would help save money.

I still stand by my original statement:

Cheap, reliable, and big-trail-worthy. Pick two.

On my build, I got the D60, 14ff, NV4500, NP231, and a large amount of steel for free. And I still have put an obscene amount of money in it and it's not done.

[JamesD]

I understand. This is not my first go around with custom vehicles. I seem to always end up with way more money in it than it is worth but now that I have teh resources I can hopefully get out cheaper. I am not trying to do this for like an under $1000 build I have alot more than that tied up and all I have so far is a cut up jeep with some parts laying around it. I am just not able to spend 60K like some people I know for full bolt on everything. A little back story on that it's an 06 Unlimited with fullly custom everything extended Dynatrac axles you name it it has it. What's awesome is smacking a rock with a brand new jeep with 600 miles on it LOL. But back to the subject at hand I know the delimma of Cheap Reliable and trail worthy and that is why I went the route that I did. You can't get much more simple of a design than leaves and it is rather cheap so I am trying to get some of all three. And trust me vette I wish I had the parts that you do and the time invested ion fab but I have to start somewhere and this is where I am at.

[Roxtar]

I AM NOT BUILDING THIS TO RUN SUPERLIFT!!!!!!!! This is why I asked for constructive criticism not someone bashing me for an idea because it is out of the ordibnary just because of you in all of your glory have never ran a larger tire on an XJ does not mean it cannot be done. I am building this regardless of what you say. I am asking for help not someone saying it can be done. This is good though because people like you drive me even more to have sleepless night of working on this just to prove you wrong. It can be done and it will be done and it has been done before.No one is bashing you for origional thinking, least of all, me (anyone who's seen my rig will testify to it's origionality).
You're getting bashed for poor choices and design work.
No one is saying you can't build an XJ for 44s, just that it's foolish to try to build one for 44s on the cheap, hence this comment:You can't afford to build an XJ to run 40s. Sorry.

Why do you think you need 44s? From what I've read from you so far I'm guessing it's because they just look so damn cool.
I've been on the trails with underbuilt, poser rigs; it doesn't make for an enjoyable day, the basis for this comment:How often are your 44" buddies going to invite you along if they have to drag your broken ass out every trip?
Running 44s, or 40s, on a rig that isn't built to handle them is a great way to make yourself very unpopular with those running with you.

I am building this regardless of what you say.Then by all means, have at it.
Best of luck.
Sounds like CRASH hit it pretty dead on.

[JamesD]

I just would like everyone to be supportive an dnot say IT CANNOT BE DONE or SHOULD NOT BE DONE. I am not running large tires for the awe factor I am wanting them to use. I know it will be expensive but I am just not one to go out and pay to have someone do it or someone cut everything out and hand it to me in a bag. I am calling it budget because I am doing eveyything myself I am not saying cheap because I won't spend the money for what I need but I just don't want to pay for something when I can do it myself hence the cheapness factor.

Breaking stuff is part of wheeling and you all know that so it is expected that I will have the occasional break down and when it does then I will determine why and correct it as to not do it again. I am not trying to be a douche about this I am just looking for support not people telling me I shouldn't do it or it cannot be done.

[Roxtar]

I just would like everyone to be supportive an dnot say IT CANNOT BE DONE or SHOULD NOT BE DONE. I am not running large tires for the awe factor I am wanting them to use. I know it will be expensive but I am just not one to go out and pay to have someone do it or someone cut everything out and hand it to me in a bag. I am calling it budget because I am doing eveyything myself I am not saying cheap because I won't spend the money for what I need but I just don't want to pay for something when I can do it myself hence the cheapness factor.

Breaking stuff is part of wheeling and you all know that so it is expected that I will have the occasional break down and when it does then I will determine why and correct it as to not do it again. I am not trying to be a douche about this I am just looking for support not people telling me I shouldn't do it or it cannot be done.Believe it or not, those saying, "IT SHOULD NOT BE DONE" are being supportive.
It's like telling your child not to play in the street.
As far as cheap goes, the statement, "I've got $100 into it so I've got to use it", goes a long way toward explaining what the term, "budget" means to you.
I built an HP44 completely by myself, having the advantages of owning a machine shop.
It cost me around $1800 hard cash and I wouldn't consider trying to run 44s with it.
No one's saying you're being a douche; you're just acting like a spoiled child.
"I want what I want and that's all that matters."
Fine, go ahead.
Just don't ask for help and then complain when confronted by truth.
If you want cheerleaders there's a great website for them:
www.jeepsunlimited.com

[djblade311]

k guys, JamesD has been warned about this choices and he is asking for some feedback about his build. Its his rig and he can do what he wants but as long as he has been warned about the consequences, then its his problem if it breaks down on the trail. I know we all want to share our own experiences and we want to make sure that you (JamesD) dont make any costly mistakes.

everyone, let's unwind the panties and not take anything personal.

James, please understand that some of us cannot be supportive if we don't agree with the methods used due to safety concerns. Feedback is feedback, whether its supportive or unsupportive. Do with it what you will.

[CRASH]

So, did you grind the frame to get rid of the zinc coating?

You keep insisting your welds are strong and that they will hold. If you skipped the grinding step, then you are incorrect.

Questions:

What wheelbase are you shooting for? That will determine spring placement. If you are shooting for moving the rear axle back about 5 inches, I'd use an MJ pack and bolt it to the stock front hanger location. Since you've cut it off, you'll need to rebuild it with some box tubing or a pre-fab spring hanger like you can get from any roundy-round racing fab shop. This spot is literally the toughest, most reinforced spot on an XJ, except for maybe the frame LCA bracket. Use this spot wisely.

Oh, and throw away those POS Chevy springs and use the correct spring for your weight bias, wheelbase and optimal mounting locations. Trying to use a spring that doesn't fit and doesn't flex is just plain silly.

[JamesD]

I am not looking for cheerleaders. I am looking for ideas and suggestions and this whole debate has gotten me nowhere. I created this thread to gain insight as to where I need to go with this and mainly what I get is either with something else or change entirely what I am doing. I am sorry that I do not agree and if you have nothing supportive to say then keep it to yourself. You are not telling me anything different than what I have heard already. I think there have been maybe 4 posts in this entire thread that have shed any light on the subject. I am not here to argue I am just searching for answers. I don't understand how I am being spoiled in that I do nothing different than anyone else in wanting a fun vehicle without spending excessive $$$. I am sorry that I am different but do not ruin a thread because you do not agree. This thread now has no purpose what so ever and for all I am concerned they can LOCK IT UP because this thread is providing no value or information just drama.

[dallas xjs]

dearest james...i have carfully read all of the thread....here is my best advise...build your vision..keep it on a budget..and make good welds..now on the superlift park..we run 38s 39s all day and hit all the black diamonds...i have been there 4 times...the last time i rode with a guy there,he had 44s...be honest it took all the fun out of the trails...good luck bro..

[vetteboy]

This spot is literally the toughest, most reinforced spot on an XJ, except for maybe the frame LCA bracket. Use this spot wisely.

This is very true - I discovered this when building mine, and it became the cage tie-in point for the c-pillar hoop, and one of the main bolt locations for the rear 4-link crossmember. I also agree with the MJ pack idea, I've seen that done and it seems to work well.

I am not looking for cheerleaders. I am looking for ideas and suggestions and this whole debate has gotten me nowhere. I created this thread to gain insight as to where I need to go with this and mainly what I get is either with something else or change entirely what I am doing. I am sorry that I do not agree and if you have nothing supportive to say then keep it to yourself. You are not telling me anything different than what I have heard already. I think there have been maybe 4 posts in this entire thread that have shed any light on the subject. I am not here to argue I am just searching for answers. I don't understand how I am being spoiled in that I do nothing different than anyone else in wanting a fun vehicle without spending excessive $$$. I am sorry that I am different but do not ruin a thread because you do not agree. This thread now has no purpose what so ever and for all I am concerned they can LOCK IT UP because this thread is providing no value or information just drama.

Honestly, I think if we just all kept quiet and didn't say anything negative, your thread would be entirely composed of worthless replies and you'd be bitching about no one was giving any suggestions.

Here's my final attempts at tech contribution for this thread, it's quickly becoming a tech black hole.

For the rear: MJ packs and the stock hangers as CRASH suggested, or relocated mounts as in RockControlXJ's thread. Either way 12" of lift is not necessary for 44's (especially with as little flex as you'll have with those chevy springs) and you're obviously not afraid of the sawzall, so use that to your advantage. That much lift will only lead to more problems (and more expense!) in other areas. Remember that the forward leaf spring bolt and hanger is where ALL the propulsive force from the rear axle is transferred to the vehicle, so it's nearly impossible to "over-reinforce" this area. Keep in mind too that with the amount of unsprung weight you'll have from those tires, if you ever lift a tire off the ground once the flex is maxed out, that's a shit-ton of weight hanging from one corner that'll try and twist the chassis to pieces, especially if you're under power. Having the cage connect in to the spring mounts will help this tremendously.

In the middle: here's where you're going to start hating life. That Peugeot trans is not worth its weight in scrap and I'd bet a medium sum of money that it's pretty well toast as it is. Coupled with a 21-spline NP231 and a non-HO motor, I really don't see this as an effective means of rotating 44s. The Peugeot that I ran briefly (because I got it for 'free' and needed a transmission) crapped out after 8k miles. Synchros disappeared, 5th gear dissolved, and reverse worked sometimes. If there's ANYTHING you need to build that involves working around this transmission, just scrap it and wait til you get something better. I can guarantee you that you'll be swapping it out within months if you leave it there. The stock 4.0 has a little bit of grunt to it but don't expect to be able to maintain wheelspeed in mud, especially since you'll be limited by both the torque capacity and gearing options for the Dana 50. Which leads me to:

The front. Poor axle choice that will end up costing you both time and money in the end. As I recall, you were having issues with the uber-wide spring spacing of the Ford axle. This means you'll have some pretty custom stuff going on the frame side that'll either require extensive modification should you upgrade to an older HP60, say, or you might find yourself having to modify the new axle in some bastard ways to make it mount up. Either way, you'll have to put time into it at least if you want decent pinion angle and caster with 12" lift (aka cutting/rotating knuckles, thus making it utterly un-resellable as well). My advice is to cut your losses, re-instate the eBay auction you had going for it while it's still an OEM replacement, and find something more suitable from the start.

You'll also have to consider steering at some point, and with 44's on an XJ with that much lift I'd strongly advise full hydraulic. For the health of the unibody, the steering links, and your arms. Trying to fit a mechanical drag link at a decent angle will be definitely impossible with a Dana 50 and still not a good idea on anything else. So now you have to buy a new steering pump, double ended ram (preferably), orbital valve (load reactive, preferably), filter and reservoir, and a bunch of lines. All to connect to steering knuckles that will most certainly :bawl: with the kind of force needed to point those tires.

Just some thoughts. Use them at your own discretion.

[CRASH]

Stop the hate. ;)

This is very true - I discovered this when building mine, and it became the cage tie-in point for the c-pillar hoop, and one of the main bolt locations for the rear 4-link crossmember. I also agree with the MJ pack idea, I've seen that done and it seems to work well.



Honestly, I think if we just all kept quiet and didn't say anything negative, your thread would be entirely composed of worthless replies and you'd be bitching about no one was giving any suggestions.

Here's my final attempts at tech contribution for this thread, it's quickly becoming a tech black hole.

For the rear: MJ packs and the stock hangers as CRASH suggested, or relocated mounts as in RockControlXJ's thread. Either way 12" of lift is not necessary for 44's (especially with as little flex as you'll have with those chevy springs) and you're obviously not afraid of the sawzall, so use that to your advantage. That much lift will only lead to more problems (and more expense!) in other areas. Remember that the forward leaf spring bolt and hanger is where ALL the propulsive force from the rear axle is transferred to the vehicle, so it's nearly impossible to "over-reinforce" this area. Keep in mind too that with the amount of unsprung weight you'll have from those tires, if you ever lift a tire off the ground once the flex is maxed out, that's a shit-ton of weight hanging from one corner that'll try and twist the chassis to pieces, especially if you're under power. Having the cage connect in to the spring mounts will help this tremendously.

In the middle: here's where you're going to start hating life. That Peugeot trans is not worth its weight in scrap and I'd bet a medium sum of money that it's pretty well toast as it is. Coupled with a 21-spline NP231 and a non-HO motor, I really don't see this as an effective means of rotating 44s. The Peugeot that I ran briefly (because I got it for 'free' and needed a transmission) crapped out after 8k miles. Synchros disappeared, 5th gear dissolved, and reverse worked sometimes. If there's ANYTHING you need to build that involves working around this transmission, just scrap it and wait til you get something better. I can guarantee you that you'll be swapping it out within months if you leave it there. The stock 4.0 has a little bit of grunt to it but don't expect to be able to maintain wheelspeed in mud, especially since you'll be limited by both the torque capacity and gearing options for the Dana 50. Which leads me to:

The front. Poor axle choice that will end up costing you both time and money in the end. As I recall, you were having issues with the uber-wide spring spacing of the Ford axle. This means you'll have some pretty custom stuff going on the frame side that'll either require extensive modification should you upgrade to an older HP60, say, or you might find yourself having to modify the new axle in some bastard ways to make it mount up. Either way, you'll have to put time into it at least if you want decent pinion angle and caster with 12" lift (aka cutting/rotating knuckles, thus making it utterly un-resellable as well). My advice is to cut your losses, re-instate the eBay auction you had going for it while it's still an OEM replacement, and find something more suitable from the start.

You'll also have to consider steering at some point, and with 44's on an XJ with that much lift I'd strongly advise full hydraulic. For the health of the unibody, the steering links, and your arms. Trying to fit a mechanical drag link at a decent angle will be definitely impossible with a Dana 50 and still not a good idea on anything else. So now you have to buy a new steering pump, double ended ram (preferably), orbital valve (load reactive, preferably), filter and reservoir, and a bunch of lines. All to connect to steering knuckles that will most certainly :bawl: with the kind of force needed to point those tires.

Just some thoughts. Use them at your own discretion.

[87xjco]

This thread now has no purpose what so ever and for all I am concerned they can LOCK IT UP because this thread is providing no value or information just drama.

Oh come on, don't take your toy's and go home. We will try and be more supportive.

This thread has alot of good value, it certainely has entertainment value and educational value also, it's been held as an example in the Den and we are looking forward to your new fab. ideas. Perhaps many generations will look back on this design and build with awe. Don't take that away. They called DaVinci and Sir Isaac Newton crazy and they persevered, and they showed everyone they were right. You may be able to do the same.

Good luck to you sir, I salute your faith and spirit!!

[ashmanjeepxj]

James,

Check out My buddie Josh's rear leaf mounts, He used jeffs brackets from ballisticsfabrication. Yes its an FJ40 so it has a frame but pics are similar to what you could do . Frame end under the frame shackle end off bumper.

http://www.parrish-family.net/albums/AxleRelocation/RAxleReloc_010.sized.jpg

http://www.parrish-family.net/albums/AxleRelocation/RAxleReloc_013.sized.jpg

http://www.parrish-family.net/albums/AxleRelocation/RAxleReloc_019.sized.jpg

http://www.parrish-family.net/albums/AxleRelocation/RAxleReloc_020.sized.jpg

[CRASH]

This thread now has no purpose what so ever and for all I am concerned they can LOCK IT UP because this thread is providing no value or information just drama.

This is just getting good.

Now, post some pics of your girlfriend, I'll move the thread to the Den, and we can really get the fun started.

[shortxjdoug]

listen just keep doin what your doin and build it RIGHT and STRONG as you can, yes 44 is gonna be a rough tire on the xj but dammit i give you props for stickin with your build and what you want to do. If nobody would have kept going bigger than none of us would be here because the first guy never would have put 31's on a perfectly good grocery getter and then driven it in the dirt. IMO it can be done and i have seen larger tires than 44's on an xj (53 michelins) granted those were built with a one off frame and rockwells but it still can be done. Just remember this is coming from the same guys who say you can't run a locked d-35 on 31's without catastrophe (i have pics and video to prove that wrong) the key is to sift through the village wisdom and find the real building tips, some good things have been said here especially regarding your previous ideas at spring mounting and the body side spring hangers. My main concern is power, you are keeping the 4.0 drivetrain aren't you? the thing is that even with the deepest axle gears you can find, and even if you ran a doubler setup, you will be hard pressed to push a 44 around with a 150-ish HP drivetrain. Honestly IMO i think you should scale it down to a well setup flexible XJ specific suspension on 38's or 40's. the xj when setup properly is an impressive vehicle and with a good driver at the wheel can follow a group of much more built vehicles. In fact just last weekend my little xj on 31's with a front locker followed toyota buggies on 36's and our trail leader ran a ranger buggy on 40's, and i only got pulled once i hung with the pack very well. thats just my .02 on the the whole thing and what experience out wheeling has taught me. Good luck with the build, and don't worry about the criticism here just try to sift through what people have decided is the be all end all correct way and find the real building tips because there is a lot of skill and experience around here...

[vetteboy]

This is just getting good.

Now, post some pics of your girlfriend, I'll move the thread to the Den, and we can really get the fun started.

The funny thing is, it appears as though he's almost been inspired by the perfect rig described in your signature.

[CRASH]

Except with less power, reliability and flex.

[BrettM]

James, you are ignoring a lot of good advice. 44s do not come cheap, even if you find great deals and build everything yourself. If all you want is support for your ideas, you are in the wrong place; people here aren't going to support ideas destined to fail miserably.

[87xjco]

Now, post some pics of your girlfriend, I'll move the thread to the Den, and we can really get the fun started.

ROFL

[vetteboy]

Except with less power, reliability and flex.

Don't give the 305/650DP that much credit. I actually ran that same powertrain in my Nova once because I already had it and didn't want to spend money on a motor, and it was quite disappointing. A worn out, internally-clearanced reduced-friction Renix 4.0 would have given it a run for its money, with twice the fuel economy :D

James knows all about power though. His previous ride had a 455ci motor with 190 HP!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/570000-570999/570210_1_full.jpg

(this isn't a joke)

[JamesD]

Don't give the 305/650DP that much credit. I actually ran that same powertrain in my Nova once because I already had it and didn't want to spend money on a motor, and it was quite disappointing. A worn out, internally-clearanced reduced-friction Renix 4.0 would have given it a run for its money, with twice the fuel economy :D

James knows all about power though. His previous ride had a 455ci motor with 190 HP!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/570000-570999/570210_1_full.jpg

(this isn't a joke)


WTF do you mean by that. If you know anything about big blocks then you know that they are not monsters of horse power but of torque. Torque is a larger concern than horsepower. And I commend you for typing my name in a search. Pat on the back. :gee:

[JamesD]

Now, post some pics of your girlfriend, I'll move the thread to the Den, and we can really get the fun started.

Don't bring your mom into this!

[JamesD]

And I thank you to all the others that are actually trying to help me. Any CONSTRUCTIVE info is appreciated.

[BrettM]

And I thank you to all the others that are actually trying to help me. Any CONSTRUCTIVE info is appreciated.
once we see you actually following the large amount of contructive info already in this thread, maybe we will be motivated to give you more.

[vetteboy]

WTF do you mean by that. If you know anything about big blocks then you know that they are not monsters of horse power but of torque. Torque is a larger concern than horsepower. And I commend you for typing my name in a search. Pat on the back. :gee:

I know exactly how a big block works, thanks. I've built more than my fair share of motors and many of them have gone into things they had no business being in. :) Honestly that Olds looked like it was a clean ride, which is all the more reason why I'm confused that you're being so careless on this one.

Isn't Google fun? :idea:

All kinds of entertaining things come up for me, too. If you look hard enough you can find some of my first forum posts ever in which I look like a complete newbie tard trying to convince someone that my XJ had a D44 front axle from the factory. You can also find some REALLY old posts in which I put up my first welding project ever (rock rails) for review, and people said the welds looked cold, and I said they were fine, and then they cracked on the first rock impact. So much for listening to advice from people who knew what they were talking about.

I apologize for the somewhat humorous direction this thread has gone, but really, we're taking it just as seriously as you seem to be taking the planning and execution of your project. Perhaps if you really took the advice offered here, or at least showed it some consideration, people would take you a little more seriously as well.

The people who blindly post up the "don't listen, just do it, live your dreams!" sort of posts are the ones who really annoy me on the trail. Not because I ever see them, but invariably the person that chose to follow their advice instead of the actual tech being offered is the guy stuck and broken on the next obstacle whose axle has decided to remove itself from the vehicle. I know this because I lead trail groups of all sizes from time to time and I've seen some wonderful examples of misguided fabrication.

Just show some regard for the advice offered here, and if you think your idea is better, enlighten everybody by showing us how. That's all that's really being asked of you here.

Good luck with the build!

[JamesD]

WOW. Thank you, seriously. I will try to get the rear mocked up this weekend and I will let you all know how it turns out.

[dallas xjs]

[QUOTE=vetteboy]
The people who blindly post up the "don't listen, just do it, live your dreams!"
QUOTE]wow all i said was "...build your vision..keep it on a budget..and make good welds"...now i can fab and my heep has made it 2 yrs from last build..over knuckle 1 1/2 dom tubing w/hiems..longarm set up...relocate trac bar..not to mention geting a xj 7in. takes a little more things done here and there,trust me i know....hell i did all the install work of the arb and tjm bumbers by myself...i think that might be the only bolt on junk i bought pre built..besides this said rig James speaks of i expect nothing less but it being trailored w/parts tools and a welder once taking of to the areas he does his wheeling,so when his heep does lose that vision axle he can get it back together and a hour or so and go back to the trails...and i believe i have seen your heep vetteboy<tubed xj?> what i remember its a nice rig..that all being said i most push the submit reply web wheeing botton..thank you

[vetteboy]

wow all i said was "...build your vision..keep it on a budget..and make good welds"...now i can fab and my heep has made it 2 yrs from last build..over knuckle 1 1/2 dom tubing w/hiems..longarm set up...relocate trac bar..not to mention geting a xj 7in. takes a little more things done here and there,trust me i know....hell i did all the install work of the arb and tjm bumbers by myself...i think that might be the only bolt on junk i bought pre built..besides this said rig James speaks of i expect nothing less but it being trailored w/parts tools and a welder once taking of to the areas he does his wheeling,so when his heep does lose that vision axle he can get it back together and a hour or so and go back to the trails...and i believe i have seen your heep vetteboy<tubed xj?> what i remember its a nice rig..that all being said i most push the submit reply web wheeing botton..thank you

Crap - sorry dude. I wasn't callin you out by any means, nor questioning your abilities, nor even referring to any specific posts. My apologies if it seemed that way. It's the posts that imply "don't listen to all the haters" when the so-called "haters" are the people actually offering valid technical advice that annoy me.

And yeah, you may have seen mine floating around here, there's a few random shots here and there. Not really tubed but full cage and chopped rear etc. It's done an excellent job of making sure my jackstands don't run away for the last 7 months.

[Gil BullyKatz]

This thread has brought a tear to my eye...

it's priceless...


mission accomplished boys.

[olivedrabcj7]

Well we do alot of riding down here along with the Superlift park and we have alot of guys running alot bigger than 44's and when we are hittin the trails 35 won't cut it.
:)

Ive taken my XJ on 35s on every 1,2,3,and 4 in that park and attempted a couple 5's (one with success). With the right driver at the wheel and some kahuna's, theres no reason you cant do 95% of the trails at superlift in a properly built cherokee on 35's. 44's are not necessary, especially on a cherokee. But, its your build, and im dying to see my old xj with 44's under it. I just want to see it done the right way.

[pdharrin]

JamesD-
Guess what? There are assholes on the internet. Try posting this on Pirate and see what happens.

Most people are criticizing your design for your benefit and the SAFETY of others.

Another reason you are a target is that you seem to be trying to jump over the learning curve. Just as vetteboy says: "you can find some of my first forum posts ever in which I look like a complete newbie tard." When I am reminded of some of my first projects, I thank god that I wasn't messing with any EXTREMELY CRITICAL parts. I learned from my mistakes (aka "experience") and now can build some pretty decent stuff. Good luck!

[dallas xjs]

i just smacked the hell out of myself...this thread < http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98660 > is a major learning curve for me...james i must ask...are you under 21

[rehab]

stop talking start wrenching! i want to see more pics! please.

[MudDawg]

I have read this entire thread....interesting and funny at times....but in the end, the same old same old....an inexperienced guy tries something that in the end is going to fail or at best fall short of the intention.

Very experienced guys offer good advice and get snobbed...bad move...lack of understanding of basic human nature...those with experience are used to telling someone how to do it right, and receiving the respect and co-operation they have earned from experience.....the inexperienced, working with not much more than a desire to accomplish their vision (however flawed that vision may be) are incensed that someone is telling them what to do (push their own vision on the inexperienced guy) no matter how good the advice is. Ego and testosterone unfortunately often overrule good advice and sound judgement...

If someone wants to reinvent the wheel all by himself, I say good luck. All it takes is money, time, and a place to scrap all the broken parts. When it breaks, the "Rutan theory" comes into play (Burt Rutan, Google that name) "I just eliminated another wrong way to do this"...of course Rutan is an incredible mind.

Besides, history shows that a lot of innovations were blundered into by accident, who knows???

As far as 44's on a XJ go...I have seen several....but they are Mud Trucks..vastly different from the normal "trail Rigs" and would flip over and play dead cockroach at the first sign of a tall rocky obstical.

[rocklandxjer]

i just smacked the hell out of myself...this thread < http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98660 > is a major learning curve for me...james i must ask...are you under 21

i dont think age has anything to do with it... im not 21, and i was the first two posts in that thread, and not any of those
"sweet dude!! bigger is better" posts either

just saying

[Roxtar]

Glad to see the old jeep go to a good home.Care to take a mulligan on that statement? :gag:

[dallas xjs]

not at all rocklander...speaking about james post..his going round and round..and i thinks age and exp has ever thing to do with it..sorry about the misunderstanging "dude"...lol

[vintagespeed]

.....James knows all about power though. His previous ride had a 455ci motor with 190 HP!......(this isn't a joke)

That's impossible. The guy that built that Buick would never throw together some booger-welded, booty fabbed pile like the pics posted here.........could he???????

Seriously, if you take that much pride in your ride to build a nice bagged cruiser like that, why would you build some half ass sh1t for your Jeep? Your work will be WAYYYY more visible on a lifted rig, and frankly I'd shoot myself if I did work like what you've shown here.

I dont mean to be an ass, everyone's gotta start somewhere but jeezus man take some pride in what you build. You obviously did in your other ride. Research the project before jumping into it headlong & just welding crap together & posting it on the interweb.

In other words, R&R that junk, SEARCH and then start building. Nothing you want to do is unique so search for it, take in other's ideas and ONLY THEN start building. And stop being a hack. :spin1:

Good luck.

[vetteboy]

The guy that built that Buick would never throw together some booger-welded, booty fabbed pile like the pics posted here.........could he???????

And you'd think a guy with the name 'vintagespeed' could tell the difference between a Buick and an Oldsmobile. :doh: :)

That's what I was saying though, from the Cardomain page for that ride, it looked really well done. Adjustable height and everything. I recognize that in our sport looks aren't everything (in fact, they're rarely anything) but even the ugliest projects need a solid foundation in order to get anywhere.

WOW. Thank you, seriously. I will try to get the rear mocked up this weekend and I will let you all know how it turns out.

So how'd it turn out? Inquiring minds want to know! :scared:

seriously, I really would like to see how you're progressing on it, all sarcasm and humor aside. Mine's suffering from a severe lack of progress as of late so I might as well build vicariously through other people.

[orchimaxi]

seriously, I really would like to see how you're progressing on it, all sarcasm and humor aside. Mine's suffering from a severe lack of progress as of late so I might as well build vicariously through other people.

Be careful of work related accidents - web wheeling can be a dangerous occupation!

(The guy several thousand miles away from his rig shouldn't be preaching...)

[JamesD]

Truthfully guys it was opening weekend of deer season so I didn't get to work on it. I am taking off next week in hopes of devoting multiple days of just jeep fab time.

Another idea that I am having which may be totally off base but what I am thinking of is running a basic channel from one end to the other and welding it to the botttom of the rail on the chassis and capping the remainder that is not welded to the chassis. Once it is plated I am thinking of using some tubing and building braces from the rail to the "frame" of the jeep. I have seen this done or at least something similar for vehicles that were just huge so I assume that this would be the best route which would give me something of a frame throughout and something to tie the unibody into from front to back. I will also gain a flat plain as to mount my springs on. I made this drawing in paint in like two minutes but I hope this gets the point across. The top piece is one section that I had thought up which is the easiest in that my mounting plates ctc would be very close to the width of teh rail so by me just extending the front mounts inward slightly it would give me perfect moutnig surfaces with no angles having to be put in the added frame rail. Or my other option below that is to angle it inward but I believe that either way would work but for stength of the rail I would rather go with the first but my thinking may be incorrect as usual :) . The last image is how I would tie in the rail to the chassis. The bars going upward, I would imagine some round tubing with a u piece welded to the unibody. I have included a legend in the pic for reference but let me know what you think.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c137/civicnar/Frame.jpg

[JamesD]

Sorry if the drawing is confusing, the the top two are from above and the bottom one is from the side view. Also the top one would only be just one side .

[ashmanjeepxj]

Most of use chose to sleve the frame to get better ground clearance, you could do a Sub frame, Frame under the frame, frame stack.
If that is what you really want why not use a chevy frame under the XJ frame.

As pictured your blue (bumpers) dotn tie into the subframe.
your red cross braces will not work where the rear and front drive shafts drop down to the axle, unless this cross bracing is above the drivetrain.


There is a frame stack on an XJ with 38s. This would be crap for what I do with mine but for a mud runner I see it being practical. Just swap XJ boddies when one gets too torn up.
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/1042-2/xj0165.jpg
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/1616-2/xj0491.jpg
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/2327-2/XJ_subframe.jpg
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/95-2/new_0247155.jpg

I searched on www.xjdb.com to find you those pics..
Not all pretty thats for sure.

[Roxtar]

Most of use chose to sleve the frame to get better ground clearance, you could do a Sub frame, Frame under the frame, frame stack.
If that is what you really want why not use a chevy frame under the XJ frame.

As pictured your blue (bumpers) dotn tie into the subframe.
your red cross braces will not work where the rear and front drive shafts drop down to the axle, unless this cross bracing is above the drivetrain.


There is a frame stack on an XJ with 38s. This would be crap for what I do with mine but for a mud runner I see it being practical. Just swap XJ boddies when one gets too torn up.
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/1042-2/xj0165.jpg
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/1616-2/xj0491.jpg
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/2327-2/XJ_subframe.jpg
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/95-2/new_0247155.jpg

I searched on www.xjdb.com to find you those pics..
Not all pretty thats for sure.Now THAT'S the way to build an XJ for fo-D-fos on a budget.

[JamesD]

Well if I were to build a frame under it then should I tie the bumper in there or not? Also what frame did they start out with do you know? I was not intending to put braces in those specific spots. I just put them in there for a visual. I am sure they will have to be placed in specific areas as to allow for clearance.

[JamesD]

This may be something like what I am thinking. I can see a rail from front to back. Does anyone have any more info on it. Thanks http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/1049-2/xj0167.jpg

[vintagespeed]

And you'd think a guy with the name 'vintagespeed' could tell the difference between a Buick and an Oldsmobile. :doh: :).....

touche. i realized just a second after it was plastered all over the interweb.

[vintagespeed]

This may be something like what I am thinking. I can see a rail from front to back. Does anyone have any more info on it. Thanks

Yep, that rock anchor is doing what an anchor does.

I agree with Ash that a frame under your rig is probably gonna get you where you wanna be and it'll be a helluvalot safer than building your own suspension.....

You'll have to modify and build some new mounts to mount your Jeep onto the frame, so any frame will work. Find a cheap F250 with a 460/c6/205/44/60 or 60/60 (snow fighter) and goferit.

At that point I believe you'll have a XJ cabtruck.

[87xjco]

Ah, um..........................

Aw nevermind

[ashmanjeepxj]

The blue XJ frame setup I would prefer over the purple one much simplier so more likely to come out nice.

So what kind fame could it be? Im pretty sure it was once longer then cut down to fix the XJ wheelbase or that woudl be easy to do. Going to 3/4ton or 1ton is not going to buy you much they are flexy C-channel frames not fully boxed, and would be silly tall adn heavy. what youd really want it a leaf sprung frame that is boxed in . The 85 and earlier toyota truck frames would be good option leaf springs boxed about the right width, this pictured one looks alittle bigger then toyota frame. It might be an early bronco frame, jeep wagoneer frame, Some like that size.

Anothe frame stack pic I found a 1984 something?
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/4474-2/pc220001.jpg
This looks like a 1/2ton full size frame.
http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/4476-2/pc220002.jpg

[ashmanjeepxj]

Here is a pic i found years ago with a flat frame...

Its also on XJ db now..


http://www.xjdb.com/gallery/d/4498-2/xj0302.jpg

[JamesD]

What about like a mid to early 80's Chevrolet 1/2 ton. I can pick those up fairly cheap that are runners. Take off the body and adapt mine to it. Do you think the SWB would be a good choice. Giving me a platform with motor mounts and etc.. also I can use my springs LOL. Any better routes like the Toy frame mentioned above? I am open to all options I just liked the idea of it all being in place and I drop my body on and woo hoo ready to go. I know I know there is more to it than that but hey I can hope. I would just assume this would be the most efficient way to go about this. No guessing on mounting motor trans etc...

[JamesD]

What about maybe a four door blazer. I found a 1992 fairly cheap or is there a better year or stick with the 1500 box chevrolet's. http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/uc/ucgraphics/david_G.jpg

[JamesD]

Found this http://www.chuckschevytruckpages.com/framespecs.html Has a good breakdown on the dimensions of the older chevrolet stuff.

[hadfield4wd]

Dude,

I have read most of this thread. I commend your wanting to stick to your build and platform.

Just some observations.

This may be sacriledge on NAXJA, but why stick with a XJ? If you want 44's it will be cheaper and easier with a full size blazer or bronco. You could easliy put in 1 ton running gear in both. They will have full frame, V-8, the wiring, linkages etc. worked out for the most part. This could also be done faster and those vehicles are all over. Yes you would get body damage I know that. Then you could mildly build the XJ on 33's or 36's.

Good luck and I will keep watching.

[ashmanjeepxj]

What about like a mid to early 80's Chevrolet 1/2 ton. I can pick those up fairly cheap that are runners. Take off the body and adapt mine to it. Do you think the SWB would be a good choice. Giving me a platform with motor mounts and etc.. also I can use my springs LOL. Any better routes like the Toy frame mentioned above? I am open to all options I just liked the idea of it all being in place and I drop my body on and woo hoo ready to go. I know I know there is more to it than that but hey I can hope. I would just assume this would be the most efficient way to go about this. No guessing on mounting motor trans etc...

your ganna have to measure afew and modify the frame and XJ frame if needed.

Any 1/2ton chevy frame with leafs front and rear I think would be easy enough for you to work with. With the 1/2 ton Chevy frame it will flex so you will need to Isolate the frame from the body with flexable body mounts like a factory chevy cab would mount.

1/2 chevy all the way.

Only question I see is if you shoudl attempt to keep the cherokee Drivetrain or replace it with the chevy stuff on the frame you will buy?

Is the cherokee stuff in good shape? If so It mgiht be worth putting more money into it getting a SYE for the t-case and making new drive shafts. The Np231 I wouldent trust on 44s.

Ideally if you could find a 350 or 454 powered 1/2ton with a Th350 or Th400 auto with the NP203 behind it, you could use that whole setup for now get the project rolling.. I think $500-1000 you should be able to find a ugly ass but stout drivetrain.

and later you could add a chevy Np205 doubler behind the 203. Swap to propane or fuel injection, get beadlocks, upgrade your used tires to new 44in Boggers..Swap Xj boddies if yours gets trashed.

I think this 1/2 frame Idea will work out great for you. not NAXJA style but what ever.

[Ludakris]

your ganna have to measure afew and modify the frame and XJ frame if needed.

Any 1/2ton chevy frame with leafs front and rear I think would be easy enough for you to work with. With the 1/2 ton Chevy frame it will flex so you will need to Isolate the frame from the body with flexable body mounts like a factory chevy cab would mount.

1/2 chevy all the way.

Only question I see is if you shoudl attempt to keep the cherokee Drivetrain or replace it with the chevy stuff on the frame you will buy?

Is the cherokee stuff in good shape? If so It mgiht be worth putting more money into it getting a SYE for the t-case and making new drive shafts. The Np231 I wouldent trust on 44s.

Ideally if you could find a 350 or 454 powered 1/2ton with a Th350 or Th400 auto with the NP203 behind it, you could use that whole setup for now get the project rolling.. I think $500-1000 you should be able to find a ugly ass but stout drivetrain.

and later you could add a chevy Np205 doubler behind the 203. Swap to propane or fuel injection, get beadlocks, upgrade your used tires to new 44in Boggers..Swap Xj boddies if yours gets trashed.

I think this 1/2 frame Idea will work out great for you. not NAXJA style but what ever.


Again... get an s-10.
From what I have read, the S-10 Blazer frame is much stronger than the fullsize frames. This is because the extra material needed for the front IFS. Throw some leafs in the front and your golden. Everyone and their brother make v-8 swaps for them, or stick with a 4.3L. If you really have something agains the S-10 blazer body, then throw the cherokee on it, but it seems like a lot of work just to have it look like a cherokee.

[JamesD]

I just like the look of the XJ and if this is the way to do it then here we go. The search is on for a 73-87 1/2 chevy 4x4. I intend to find a driver and rip it apart. Luckily these are readily accessible here in Arkansas - go figure. I am thinking lateral braces to tie into the body mounts so as to attch the XJ body to the Chevy frame. I want to use all of the drive train from the chevy as to why re invent the wheel on drive train mounting. So yes it is not much of an XJ left but truthfully what of these are once they are highly modified.

[JamesD]

I can get a running and driving 4x4 s-10 blazer for $500 with the 4.3 but what else will I have to change in the drivetrain whereas a full size comes with fairly beefy stuff as not to need an upgrade immediately. I am open to either. I just wonder which would be the most beneficial.

[Ludakris]

I can get a running and driving 4x4 s-10 blazer for $500 with the 4.3 but what else will I have to change in the drivetrain whereas a full size comes with fairly beefy stuff as not to need an upgrade immediately. I am open to either. I just wonder which would be the most beneficial.

Front and rear axles. Convert front to leaf.
it should have a 4.3L 700R4 NP231. What year?

[JamesD]

Like a 1992

[mattyg]

Just read this thread lmfao
keep it up guys lets see more pics

hi from Canada....eh

[mikedashg]

If you're gonna build a sub-frame, I'd talk to these Arizona guys (Greg from C-ROK, and Theon). I think even with raised coil mounts and a sub-frame, they were running 39s. Theon's was nick'd "Creepers" ...

http://community.webshots.com/user/creeprs

He sold it shortly after he built it.



Pics I got of C-ROK Greg...
http://www.mike-g.net/jeep/yinyang/pics/jambo_truckhaven/images/jambo_0039.jpg
http://www.mike-g.net/jeep/yinyang/pics/jambo_truckhaven/images/jambo_0043.jpg
http://www.mike-g.net/jeep/yinyang/pics/jambo_truckhaven/images/jambo_0044.jpg
http://www.mike-g.net/jeep/yinyang/pics/jambo_truckhaven/images/jambo_0049.jpg

[mikedashg]

Oh, and here's a good shot of Theons old sub-frame (as he's about to break a lower link) :D

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1198123640040877883XPBgYk

[JamesD]

Thanks for the info. I was looking at the pics and I cannot see how exactly he tied the subframe into the chassis? Any close ups of the attaching points.

[Ludakris]

Like a 1992


then it should have the 4.3L 700R4 NP231 combo.
there were some threads on Pirate about s-10 truggies that had good info, do a search there...
I had an 85 s-10 blazer i just got rid of. it was free, but i had it almost 2 years with out touching it.. the wife won that battle... :gag:
I figured leafs and rockwells..

[CRASH]

Am I the only one here that can't believe someone would go to the trouble of swapping an XJ body on top of a pickup chassis?

If you have a look at what a dedicated trail rig looks like these days, you'll note the lack of an body panels what-so-ever. Why in gawd's name would you intentionally add sheetmetal to a trail rig?

Your BEST option is to buy a military surplus CUCV 1 1/4 ton chevy pick-up. It has a detroit 14 bolt in back, a 60 front, 4.56's a 6.2 diesel (no smog) a TH400 and a 205. Remove all sheetmetal, add tube, 44 inch tires, alloy axles and joints, and a 203 doubler. Oh, and don't forget the mullett. Now, wheel to your hearts content and never worry about damaging sheetmetal.

CRASH

P.S. This thread, like all of your threads, is like a bad traffic accident. You know you shouldn't look, but you just can't help yourself.

[JamesD]

I figure I can pick those up for nothing. I see them everywhere for $500 that run but will the motor be large enough to actually move 44's and will the drive train be sufficient to start with. I just look at it as why buy it and do all of the work and have to replace it soon after if it is not sufficient that is why I like the full sizes but hey if the s10 stuff is strong enough I will rip the body off and throw my XJ on it and make it work. Also from above it was said that I need to set it up to have rubber bushing like factory to mount it to, just checking for clarity.

[Ludakris]

Am I the only one here that can't believe someone would go to the trouble of swapping an XJ body on top of a pickup chassis?



I agree.
It would be much easier to swap a Jeep emblem to a blazer then an XJ body.

[Ludakris]

I figure I can pick those up for nothing. I see them everywhere for $500 that run but will the motor be large enough to actually move 44's and will the drive train be sufficient to start with. I just look at it as why buy it and do all of the work and have to replace it soon after if it is not sufficient that is why I like the full sizes but hey if the s10 stuff is strong enough I will rip the body off and throw my XJ on it and make it work. Also from above it was said that I need to set it up to have rubber bushing like factory to mount it to, just checking for clarity.


4.3L and some decent gears would be plenty..

[JamesD]

I agree.
It would be much easier to swap a Jeep emblem to a blazer then an XJ body.

But that takes all of the fun out of it. :party:

[vetteboy]

Your BEST option is to buy a military surplus CUCV 1 1/4 ton chevy pick-up. It has a detroit 14 bolt in back, a 60 front, 4.56's a 6.2 diesel (no smog) a TH400 and a 205. Remove all sheetmetal, add tube, 44 inch tires, alloy axles and joints, and a 203 doubler. Oh, and don't forget the mullett. Now, wheel to your hearts content and never worry about damaging sheetmetal.

Look - here's one! And it has all that already!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-C-K-Pickup-3500-CUCV-m1008-Rockcrawler-Rock-Crawler-46-Michelin-ORD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ90967QQihZ006QQitem Z160050104718QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[JamesD]

That thing has been on E-Bay a few times already.

[vetteboy]

That should tell you something about how desireable that kind of setup is then, especially since that truck has pretty good hardware on it for that sort of build.

[CRASH]

Look - here's one! And it has all that already!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-C-K-Pickup-3500-CUCV-m1008-Rockcrawler-Rock-Crawler-46-Michelin-ORD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ90967QQihZ006QQitem Z160050104718QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


James, that thing is perfect for you. Buy it. You will be mega $$$$ ahead.

[BrettM]

james, you need to take a lesson from THIS (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=527809) guy; he was wondering if it's possible to build a JeepSpeed XJ on a budget of $2500. he was immediately shot down and he actually listened.

[ashmanjeepxj]

If you're gonna build a sub-frame, I'd talk to these Arizona guys (Greg from C-ROK, and Theon). I think even with raised coil mounts and a sub-frame, they were running 39s. Theon's was nick'd "Creepers" ...

http://community.webshots.com/user/creeprs

He sold it shortly after he built it.



Pics I got of C-ROK Greg...
http://www.mike-g.net/jeep/yinyang/pics/jambo_truckhaven/images/jambo_0039.jpg
http://www.mike-g.net/jeep/yinyang/pics/jambo_truckhaven/images/jambo_0043.jpg
http://www.mike-g.net/jeep/yinyang/pics/jambo_truckhaven/images/jambo_0044.jpg
http://www.mike-g.net/jeep/yinyang/pics/jambo_truckhaven/images/jambo_0049.jpg

Theon sold the XJ about 2 years ago, and I doubt James could afford Gregs kit, nor would it solve all his issues.

[ashmanjeepxj]

I figure I can pick those up for nothing. I see them everywhere for $500 that run but will the motor be large enough to actually move 44's and will the drive train be sufficient to start with. I just look at it as why buy it and do all of the work and have to replace it soon after if it is not sufficient that is why I like the full sizes but hey if the s10 stuff is strong enough I will rip the body off and throw my XJ on it and make it work. Also from above it was said that I need to set it up to have rubber bushing like factory to mount it to, just checking for clarity.

I wouldent touch an IFS S-10 frame. The 4.3L is ok but not much differetn then your 4.0, your Aw4 is about the same an a 700R4, and 231's are similar, the S-10 stuff is alittel better.

But a 454 or 350 with a Th400 and NP205 behind it is much better for pushing 44s.

I was worring about using the Np231 on 37s.
Stick with the 1/2ton frame and 1ton drivetrain if you can find it.

[vetteboy]

Any updates on this?

Just curious what direction you decided to go.`

[Ludakris]

here is everything you need..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-S-10-chevrolet-s10-dana-60-14bolt-203-205-doubler-crawler_W0QQitemZ130052654529QQihZ003QQcategoryZ13 488QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and the pic with the trailer in the background... PRICELESS!