War?

[xjackel]

I like jeeps and sharing my opinions with people. I enjoy a great debate and I was wondering if anyone wanted to share their opinions on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[urban yan]

War is bad, m'kay?

[tangoXJ]

War is needed...

[xjackel]

War is needed...

The war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[AIbandit]

I like jeeps and sharing my opinions with people. I enjoy a great debate and I was wondering if anyone wanted to share their opinions on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Awesome I love a good debate from a guy that don't know what war is.

[xjackel]

Awesome I love a good debate from a guy that don't know what war is.

How do you mean? Maybe you should explain it to me.

[AIbandit]

What do you mean explain? Seems simple to me, you do not know what war is.





MTFU or STFU

[AIbandit]

? The reason I ask this is because the military offers unparalleled opportunity, and the only thing stopping me from joining is the war.

Soldiers join for one opportunity, To serve their country. If it's anything other then that we don't need them.

[xjackel]

To serve by dying for political motivations? We invaded Iraq because of WMDs, while Kim Jong Il builds them right in front of us and threatens to use them on us. I care about this country greatly, and I hate to see Americans dying for nothing. Our "War on Terrorism" has cost more American lives than 9/11, and what have we accomplished? If we put the same resources into protecting this country here at home as we did in the middle east, we would be so much safer. Maybe people hate us because we don't mind our own business. Dick Cheney was former CEO of Halliburton, still gets paid 150,000 salary from them and has 430,000+ stock shares in the company. Guess who got rich from the war? Halliburton has received billions in government contracts and is flourishing.

[MT Mike]

I like jeeps and sharing my opinions with people. I enjoy a great debate and I was wondering if anyone wanted to share their opinions on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This will not end well for you. Take your lack of intestinal fortitude elsewhere.

[xjackel]

Soldiers join for one opportunity, To serve their country. If it's anything other then that we don't need them.

You can "serve" your country without being in the military. America was founded on the voice of the people, the meaning of democracy. We can serve this country by stopping the deaths of our soldiers. We're soldiers in Vietnam "serving"?

[xjackel]

This will not end well for you. Take your lack of intestinal fortitude elsewhere.

Lack of intestinal fortitude? I'm not scared to die defending this country. Are you against people standing up for what they believe in? Your job is to run this country with all your fellow Americans, questioning the government is allowed. It's why we vote and have rights. "This will not end well for you?" Did it end well for the 6000+ soldiers that have died?

[ehall]

hi cherbear

[Coastie]

Yea WTF is up with all the trolls lately?

[MT Mike]

http://i46.tinypic.com/9zwq4o.jpg

[xjackel]

Maybe war is good. It gets rid of the people that can't think for themselves.

[kastein]

you're retarded. I hope this does not count as a personal attack as I am simply stating a fact.

[wolfpackjeeper]

I guessing college freshman who just had his first humanities class.

Before you start it with worthless statistics about how this war has cost more lives than "x", keep in mind that the military has lost more soldiers in Motorcycle accidents per year than they have in the wars you are trolling about.

[xjackel]

Why can't someone grow up and give me some reasons we should be in the war. I am more than willing to listen b/c I have an open mind. I don't understand why it's wrong to want my friends to come back from war.

[kastein]

So are you Letterman or CherBear?

[xjackel]

I guessing college freshman who just had his first humanities class.

Before you start it with worthless statistics about how this war has cost more lives than "x", keep in mind that the military has lost more soldiers in Motorcycle accidents per year than they have in the wars you are trolling about.

I can't find those statistics anywhere. Can you post a link please?

[MT Mike]

Why can't someone grow up and give me some reasons we should be in the war. I am more than willing to listen b/c I have an open mind. I don't understand why it's wrong to want my friends to come back from war.


FREEDOM


No other word matters.

[ECKSJAY]

To serve by dying for political motivations? We invaded Iraq because of WMDs, while Kim Jong Il builds them right in front of us and threatens to use them on us. I care about this country greatly, and I hate to see Americans dying for nothing. Our "War on Terrorism" has cost more American lives than 9/11, and what have we accomplished? If we put the same resources into protecting this country here at home as we did in the middle east, we would be so much safer. Maybe people hate us because we don't mind our own business. Dick Cheney was former CEO of Halliburton, still gets paid 150,000 salary from them and has 430,000+ stock shares in the company. Guess who got rich from the war? Halliburton has received billions in government contracts and is flourishing.

Kinda blew your load with this post, didn't ya? At least get to spreading the points out and lead everyone on.

I won't begin to point out how clueless these points are because you're an obvious troll. :D

[xjackel]

FREEDOM


No other word matters.

I don't understand how we are defending our freedom

[wolfpackjeeper]

I can't find those statistics anywhere. Can you post a link please?

Oh I am sure that you can put on your big boy pants and find them. They were released by the Navy Safety Center and were in a brochure I was handed at the last Safety stand down.

[wolfpackjeeper]

Its not so much the trolling that matters to me, its just that you don't need to be so obvious about it. Ecksjay was right, you gotta stretch it out some.

[xjackel]

I posted in this forum b/c it's off topic. If you don't like it then don't reply. I am not trolling, all I want is to have an intelligent conversation.

[wolfpackjeeper]

Have you given any reasons why we should not be at war in either place? I saw you spout something about haliburton, and a comment about WMD's that makes me think that you really do believe that Iraq never had any.

[ECKSJAY]

I am not trolling, all I want is to have an intelligent conversation.

I think you forgot to bring something, if that's the case.

[wolfpackjeeper]

rofl

[xjackel]

Have you given any reasons why we should not be at war in either place? I saw you spout something about haliburton, and a comment about WMD's that makes me think that you really do believe that Iraq never had any.

If Iraq had WMD's, why invade there? Kim Jong Il has brainwashed an entire nation and has nuclear weapons. In my opinion they are way more dangerous. Also, our presence in Iraq is only creating more terrorist. Innocent civilians have died, and that makes everyone angry. Terrorism is not in two countries, it's everywhere. It's been almost 9 years in Afghanistan, so what prevented these terrorist from going elsewhere? We need to focus on securing our borders and our land. I believe that the war is counter-productive and it's only giving terrorist more motivation. War should be the last option not the first.

[xjackel]

Also, I believe that you should not fight terror with terror.

[desertfriedjeep]

Hey! I've got an idea... Let's discuss abortion! No? How about religion? Aww you're no fun...

[Coastie]

XJackel I gotta give it to you, we called you out as a AE troll on page one and you're still getting people to bite.

[wolfpackjeeper]

Iraq's Chem and Bio weapons are more dangerous to the world than N Korea's nukes. Iraq had the ability to destabilize an entire region that is vital to the world economy with no mitigating powers in the area to slow them down. N Korea Is surrounded by nuclear powers with larger armies.

How would you secure our borders and land? I see you subscribe to the nanny state philosophy. If we put all the troops in a big circle around the United states, shut down interstate commerce and inspected everything, would that help?

Face it, the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are an extremely well armed and trained anti-american target. And they have no bag limit. Every terrorist who is any terrorist wants to get them, the washovers we get here are the guys who can only manage to blow their pecker off.

"War should be the last option, not the first" please lay down the doobie and step into the real world. The enemies of America are not trying to take anything, they are not trying to conquer anything, they are trying to eliminate us. The best way to convince a wanna be Martyr that his cause is wrong is to tell him with two to the chest and one to the head. Warheads on Foreheads.

We are not fighting terror with terror, we are fighting it with well armed, well trained, uniformed troops, who are being observed by accredited world media.

[wolfpackjeeper]

XJackel I gotta give it to you, we called you out as a AE troll on page one and you're still getting people to bite.

come to the dark side, I discovered that it is more fun to feed the trolls. Any old argument will do. Besides I have not added useless posts to my count in a while.

[AIbandit]

Hey! I've got an idea... Let's discuss abortion! No? How about religion? Aww you're no fun...

I believe postnatal abortion should be legal. Especially in cases such as the OP.

[kastein]

I support abortion through the 400th trimester or so, later under certain circumstances.

[AIbandit]

I don't see why not. It's never to late to correct a mistake.

[desertfriedjeep]

I was wondering "What the hell does war have to do with Jeeps?" and then it came to me... "Duh, Jeeps were developed for the Army and the Army goes to war, so... I think I'll go and get another beer."

[CherBear]

So are you Letterman or CherBear?

My trolling is much more obvious if you recall...

[AIbandit]

I was wondering "What the hell does war have to do with Jeeps?"

Welcome to NAXJA's off topic forum.

[desertfriedjeep]

Oooohhhh! I get it now. I thought "Off Topic" meant talking about Fords or somethin' like that there. My bad! :sad1:

[AIbandit]

Nope sure isn't
That's what "Tow rigs trailers and other tech" forum is for
http://www.naxja.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=48


Feel free to ask any NAXJA related questions in this retarded thread :D

[xjackel]

Iraq's Chem and Bio weapons are more dangerous to the world than N Korea's nukes. Iraq had the ability to destabilize an entire region that is vital to the world economy with no mitigating powers in the area to slow them down. N Korea Is surrounded by nuclear powers with larger armies.

How would you secure our borders and land? I see you subscribe to the nanny state philosophy. If we put all the troops in a big circle around the United states, shut down interstate commerce and inspected everything, would that help?

Face it, the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are an extremely well armed and trained anti-american target. And they have no bag limit. Every terrorist who is any terrorist wants to get them, the washovers we get here are the guys who can only manage to blow their pecker off.

"War should be the last option, not the first" please lay down the doobie and step into the real world. The enemies of America are not trying to take anything, they are not trying to conquer anything, they are trying to eliminate us. The best way to convince a wanna be Martyr that his cause is wrong is to tell him with two to the chest and one to the head. Warheads on Foreheads.

We are not fighting terror with terror, we are fighting it with well armed, well trained, uniformed troops, who are being observed by accredited world media.

First, the middle east is already an unstable region. George Bush said his biggest regret as a president was the intelligence failure in Iraq. Do you remember in 2008 when the Senate Intelligence Committee found that his administration misrepresented the intelligence and the threat from Iraq?

[AIbandit]

Mmmm Special K is delicious. I really like the strawberry kind.

[wolfpackjeeper]

Mmmm Special K is delicious. I really like the strawberry kind.


It really goes well with Dead Terrorist

I like mine with a side of Tin Pot dictator too.

[AIbandit]

I beg to differ. The flies land on your food after being on a body. Not very appealing at all still tastes decent though.

[wolfpackjeeper]

First, the middle east is already an unstable region. George Bush said his biggest regret as a president was the intelligence failure in Iraq. Do you remember in 2008 when the Senate Intelligence Committee found that his administration misrepresented the intelligence and the threat from Iraq?


Do you recall the war of agression that Saddam started with his neighbor, then the other war of agression he started with a different neighbor? Or His threats to yeat another neighbor? What about the wholesale murder using poison gas committed against the people to the north?


Yea, I can live without that guy.

[wolfpackjeeper]

I beg to differ. The flies land on your food after being on a body. Not very appealing at all still tastes decent though.

actually, if you set your perch up right, you can seemlessly swivel from the rifle to the bowl and take them at 1000 yds. It takes more talent in the jet since it does not really have a good bowl holder.

[AIbandit]

It takes more talent in the jet since it does not really have a good bowl holder.

You should really talk to the IG about that. :D

[IslanderOffRoad]

To serve by dying for political motivations? We invaded Iraq because of WMDs, while Kim Jong Il builds them right in front of us and threatens to use them on us. I care about this country greatly, and I hate to see Americans dying for nothing. Our "War on Terrorism" has cost more American lives than 9/11, and what have we accomplished? If we put the same resources into protecting this country here at home as we did in the middle east, we would be so much safer. Maybe people hate us because we don't mind our own business. Dick Cheney was former CEO of Halliburton, still gets paid 150,000 salary from them and has 430,000+ stock shares in the company. Guess who got rich from the war? Halliburton has received billions in government contracts and is flourishing.

If you can't beat them, join them.

I applied for a job with Haliburton. I applied for jobs at oil companies too.

[xjackel]

Do you recall the war of agression that Saddam started with his neighbor, then the other war of agression he started with a different neighbor? Or His threats to yeat another neighbor? What about the wholesale murder using poison gas committed against the people to the north?


Yea, I can live without that guy.

I totally agree he was a horrible person and the world is better without him. Those events that you mentioned took place before the gulf war though. After it was over an agreement was made that Iraq was to disarm an be overseen by UNSCOM. That didn't work out so great and ended in 1998. In 2003 the department of defense sent in the Iraq Survey Group, which concluded that there was no evidence that Saddam Hussein had produced or stockpiled any wmds since the U.N. sanctions in 91'. I think a better option would have been to continue inspections and make sure that Saddam was disarmed.

[fscrig75]

Maybe you should get some first hand knowledge first then come back and make your argument. You don't have to join the military. How about a non-government agency, you could deliver aid supplies and medicine to the poor Iraqis.
Instead of complaining about a situation find a solution. Help the people you claim we are terrorizing.

[xjackel]

Maybe you should get some first hand knowledge first then come back and make your argument. You don't have to join the military. How about a non-government agency, you could deliver aid supplies and medicine to the poor Iraqis.
Instead of complaining about a situation find a solution. Help the people you claim we are terrorizing.

People from all around the world are suffering, born as victims of circumstance. It has always been that way and always will be. I am trying to find a solution, and right now that's bringing our troops home. Instead of defending my freedom by fighting for something I don't believe, I'm exercising my right to have my voice heard. We have so many enemies for a reason, and instead of trying to constantly obliterate them all, we need to find something that will not make so many people hate us. America's a great place when you live here, but a lot of the world thinks we're bullies. People don't think for themselves anymore, they do what their party tells them to.

[AIbandit]

Your a tard. Do you know what will happen if we pull out without finishing our mission?

What do you think we're doing over there? hanging out keeping it real?
You have no clue what you're talking about.



I can't blame you for your ignorance. You watch your MSNBC and now thing you're a tactical genius. It's alright it happens to the worst of us.

[xjackel]

Your a tard. Do you know what will happen if we pull out without finishing our mission?

What do you think we're doing over there? hanging out keeping it real?
You have no clue what you're talking about.



I can't blame you for your ignorance. You watch your MSNBC and now thing you're a tactical genius. It's alright it happens to the worst of us.

What do I think we're doing over there? causing problems
I never said we should pull out tomorrow, but if we did what do you think would happen. Have you heard about Vietnam? We had to leave but things were okay for us. You need the grow the f**k up and stop with the childish name calling. Why don't you tell me why I'm so wrong if you have the answer. President Bush admits it was a mistake and I'm willing to bet he's a lot smarter than you.

[goodburbon]

So what we'll do is ignore it when our allies are invaded, or should we have helped kuwait.
Maybe we should impose sanctions as conditions of a cease fire and sit back and watch for 8 years as they are violated daily, oh wait, we did that. Maybe what we should do is allow our enemies to assemble, train, and build their armies whose sole declared purpose is the destruction of our way of life.

Yeah, war is bad, but isn't it better to meet our enemies head on rather than to wait for them to knock at our doorstep, like they did on 9/11.

We tie the hands of our soldiers with "civilized" rules for combat. The reason Vietnam was the debacle that it was, was because of political games. If we play political games with the current wars, the same outcome can be expected. We must completely and totally dominate our enemy, and must provide our troops the authority, and resources to do so. To sit back home and squabble about reasons for war are counter productive and give some politicians cause to waiver in their support for our troops. If you truly hate war, which you should, you should want it to be over with as soon as possible, in a manner that will remove our enemies ability to make war. To end war while you have the advantage without winning is only postponing the inevitable for an example see Iraq. To leave a county destabilized and without infrastructure after conquering them is irresponsible.

So you feel that we should be irresponsible and abandon a people whom we have removed their ability to protect themselves, and put the other war off until the war is brought to our doorstep and you can actually physically "defend your country". Good for you.


I like to play with trolls. :)

[kastein]

xjackel, what do you think about the second amendment?

agreed, I like trolls, I am very bored and 200 miles from my XJ that I should be fixing right now

[AIbandit]

but if we did what do you think would happen.
What happened the last time we pulled out of Afgahn.


Why don't you tell me why I'm so wrong if you have the answer

I'm not your mother.

President Bush admits it was a mistake

Initiation and continuation are two completely different things.
I'm willing to bet he's a lot smarter than you.
I'm willing to bet I'm a lot smarter then you and have a lot more experience on this subject then you.
All you do is watch bs media and let them adjust your mind accordingly

[DrMoab]

God built the desire to fight into the human genome to combat world population problems...get used to it. We have always fought, we will always fight. It may not be for good reasons, war has seldom ever started for a "good" reason but it has always been there.

We could go back to the way the spartans fought with rivers of blood pouring down from the cliffs. Honestly I wish more would die in world conflicts, we are way too over populated as it is.

[karstic]

I'm no soldier but I'm glad we are fighting them over there vs. over here.

[xjackel]

So what we'll do is ignore it when our allies are invaded, or should we have helped kuwait.
Maybe we should impose sanctions as conditions of a cease fire and sit back and watch for 8 years as they are violated daily, oh wait, we did that. Maybe what we should do is allow our enemies to assemble, train, and build their armies whose sole declared purpose is the destruction of our way of life.

Yeah, war is bad, but isn't it better to meet our enemies head on rather than to wait for them to knock at our doorstep, like they did on 9/11.

We tie the hands of our soldiers with "civilized" rules for combat. The reason Vietnam was the debacle that it was, was because of political games. If we play political games with the current wars, the same outcome can be expected. We must completely and totally dominate our enemy, and must provide our troops the authority, and resources to do so. To sit back home and squabble about reasons for war are counter productive and give some politicians cause to waiver in their support for our troops. If you truly hate war, which you should, you should want it to be over with as soon as possible, in a manner that will remove our enemies ability to make war. To end war while you have the advantage without winning is only postponing the inevitable for an example see Iraq. To leave a county destabilized and without infrastructure after conquering them is irresponsible.

So you feel that we should be irresponsible and abandon a people whom we have removed their ability to protect themselves, and put the other war off until the war is brought to our doorstep and you can actually physically "defend your country". Good for you.


I like to play with trolls. :)


Terrorism isn't only located in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's mobile. Al Qaeda doesn't need a location. Look at the attempted bombing on the airliner in December. There's no way tell who's a terrorist an who isn't without proper intelligence. We're not fighting a country or an army, we're fighting people with a cause. Do you suggest we start a global war to completely eliminate the enemy? I think Iraqi's would be better off without us, all the bombing and chaos is a result of our presence. What's going on now isn't working, and we need to find a better way. I don't have that answer, but someone does.

[xjackel]

xjackel, what do you think about the second amendment?

agreed, I like trolls, I am very bored and 200 miles from my XJ that I should be fixing right now

That's one of our given rights and I agree with it. Don't assume I'm a liberal, I hate liberals. I'm a true conservative and I voted for Ron Paul. We need less government and less rules.

[wolfpackjeeper]

I have come to the belief, that God must have invented the .45 and Mk84 to deal with terrorists. There can be no other explanation.

[AIbandit]

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww127/LaguRoxas/troll.gif

[goodburbon]

Terrorism isn't only located in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's mobile. Al Qaeda doesn't need a location. Look at the attempted bombing on the airliner in December. There's no way tell who's a terrorist an who isn't without proper intelligence. We're not fighting a country or an army, we're fighting people with a cause. Do you suggest we start a global war to completely eliminate the enemy? I think Iraqi's would be better off without us, all the bombing and chaos is a result of our presence. What's going on now isn't working, and we need to find a better way. I don't have that answer, but someone does.


Yes, I do think we should start a global campaign to eliminate the enemy where we find them.

Your answer to the problem is "cut and run, but I don't have the answer" gotcha.

My answer is fight terror with terror. The terrorists themselves don't mind dying, but if we were to hold their families responsible, soak them in pigs blood and sodomize them in the town square with bricks from their own home...I don't think it would be long before mamma starts asking where little johnny terrorist is headed when he leaves the house. Warn them first of course, let them know that they can either be complacent and held responsible for their childrens actions, or get involved and live. Make sure you point out that no one HAS to die, you aren't forcing their children to be murders, only holding the environment that raised them to be such, accountable.

[xjackel]

What happened the last time we pulled out of Afgahn.


I'm not your mother.

Initiation and continuation are two completely different things.

I'm willing to bet I'm a lot smarter then you and have a lot more experience on this subject then you.
All you do is watch bs media and let them adjust your mind accordingly

FYI I was for the war until I did a research paper about a year ago. I studied objectively and gather facts, not opinions. Stop assuming things.

[xjackel]

Yes, I do think we should start a global campaign to eliminate the enemy where we find them.

Your answer to the problem is "cut and run, but I don't have the answer" gotcha.

My answer is fight terror with terror. The terrorists themselves don't mind dying, but if we were to hold their families responsible, soak them in pigs blood and sodomize them in the town square with bricks from their own home...I don't think it would be long before mamma starts asking where little johnny terrorist is headed when he leaves the house. Warn them first of course, let them know that they can either be complacent and held responsible for their childrens actions, or get involved and live. Make sure you point out that no one HAS to die, you aren't forcing their children to be murders, only holding the environment that raised them to be such, accountable.

God built the desire to fight into the human genome to combat world population problems...get used to it. We have always fought, we will always fight. It may not be for good reasons, war has seldom ever started for a "good" reason but it has always been there.

We could go back to the way the spartans fought with rivers of blood pouring down from the cliffs. Honestly I wish more would die in world conflicts, we are way too over populated as it is.

Then why stop Saddam from harming his people? That way none of our soldiers would have to die.

[kastein]

That's one of our given rights and I agree with it. Don't assume I'm a liberal, I hate liberals. I'm a true conservative and I voted for Ron Paul. We need less government and less rules.
please stop naming names and such, I don't want you anywhere near my side. You give it a bad name.

[xjackel]

Yes, I do think we should start a global campaign to eliminate the enemy where we find them.

Your answer to the problem is "cut and run, but I don't have the answer" gotcha.

My answer is fight terror with terror. The terrorists themselves don't mind dying, but if we were to hold their families responsible, soak them in pigs blood and sodomize them in the town square with bricks from their own home...I don't think it would be long before mamma starts asking where little johnny terrorist is headed when he leaves the house. Warn them first of course, let them know that they can either be complacent and held responsible for their childrens actions, or get involved and live. Make sure you point out that no one HAS to die, you aren't forcing their children to be murders, only holding the environment that raised them to be such, accountable.

Then what would be the difference between us and them? They kill us for the environment we live in and the things we believe. Your solution would only anger them more. These people are willing to die for what they believe.

[wolfpackjeeper]

FYI I was for the war until I did a research paper about a year ago. I studied objectively and gather facts, not opinions. Stop assuming things.

I knew it

[goodburbon]

Then what would be the difference between us and them? They kill us for the environment we live in and the things we believe. Your solution would only anger them more. These people are willing to die for what they believe.


The difference is that we would still be free. Instead of us exchanging our freedoms for security. The difference is that we would only react to the offense, not initiate the offense. The difference is that they believe their actions will get them to heaven, our responsibility is to make sure they know they're going to hell, and taking the ones they love with them.

Rank and file armies were no match guerilla tactics, guerilla tactics only further fuel terrorist action. We must make them fear us more than they fear their god, or kill them all. Those are the only ways to win, I am taking the high road by making them fear us instead of killing all of them.

[wolfpackjeeper]

These people are willing to die for what they believe.

My answer is to let them

[goodburbon]

My answer is to let them

Mine is to help them along.:kissyou:

[fscrig75]

People from all around the world are suffering, born as victims of circumstance. It has always been that way and always will be. I am trying to find a solution, and right now that's bringing our troops home. Instead of defending my freedom by fighting for something I don't believe, I'm exercising my right to have my voice heard. We have so many enemies for a reason, and instead of trying to constantly obliterate them all, we need to find something that will not make so many people hate us. America's a great place when you live here, but a lot of the world thinks we're bullies. People don't think for themselves anymore, they do what their party tells them to.

You're right people are born everyday in messed up countries where the government could care less what happens to them. So how should we help those people? Weapons, aid, invasion? No matter what we do to help another country some other governmet is not going to be happy. Who had the most to lose when we invaded Iraq, Russia, France, China to name a few.

I don't remember anyone, from the EU, complaining when we roled into Bosnia or Kosovo. Should we being doing something about the atrocities that occur everyday in Africa, absolutely, but oil makes te world go round. Whether you like it or not everyone needs oil. If they find oil in Africa I bet we roll in there next.

Keeping "trying" to find a solution, but maybe we should just step into the real worldfrom time to time and see what is really going on. Talk is cheap

[wolfpackjeeper]

Mine is to help them along.:kissyou:

great minds think alike

[xjackel]

The difference is that we would still be free. Instead of us exchanging our freedoms for security. The difference is that we would only react to the offense, not initiate the offense. The difference is that they believe their actions will get them to heaven, our responsibility is to make sure they know they're going to hell, and taking the ones they love with them.

Rank and file armies were no match guerilla tactics, guerilla tactics only further fuel terrorist action. We must make them fear us more than they fear their god, or kill them all. Those are the only ways to win, I am taking the high road by making them fear us instead of killing all of them.

Islamic people aren't terrorist. Jim Jones claimed to be a Christian but he was an evil person. The same goes with Al Qaeda. They are radicals and a small portion of the Islamic faith. No where in the Qua'ran does it say that killing yourself with take you to heaven where forty virgins are waiting. There have been Christians that have done terrible things, but that doesn't make the Christian faith evil. There are over a billion Muslims in the world, and compare that to the number of them that are terrorist and they are nothing more than a crazy cult. For some reason Hitler hated jews and they were evil in his opinion, but that didn't make the Holocaust okay.

[JNickel101]

I totally agree he was a horrible person and the world is better without him. Those events that you mentioned took place before the gulf war though. After it was over an agreement was made that Iraq was to disarm an be overseen by UNSCOM. That didn't work out so great and ended in 1998. In 2003 the department of defense sent in the Iraq Survey Group, which concluded that there was no evidence that Saddam Hussein had produced or stockpiled any wmds since the U.N. sanctions in 91'. I think a better option would have been to continue inspections and make sure that Saddam was disarmed.

So basically you're wondering why we didn't take him out in the Gulf War if he was so bad before then?

I have two answers for you - Uday and Qusay

And really, do you think they are going to make public what happened to the WMDs that were removed from Iraq just before we rolled in there?

You can't continue inspections when the inspectors are being threatened, thrown out or not allowed access to everything. Sanctioning a country that produces a lot of oil doesn't make for a good economic practice either...especially when we're one of the only countries that can refine Iraq's generally sour crude oil.

[JNickel101]

Islamic people aren't terrorist. Jim Jones claimed to be a Christian but he was an evil person. The same goes with Al Qaeda. They are radicals and a small portion of the Islamic faith. No where in the Qua'ran does it say that killing yourself with take you to heaven where forty virgins are waiting. There have been Christians that have done terrible things, but that doesn't make the Christian faith evil. There are over a billion Muslims in the world, and compare that to the number of them that are terrorist and they are nothing more than a crazy cult. For some reason Hitler hated jews and they were evil in his opinion, but that didn't make the Holocaust okay.

Show me how you can tell the difference between a radical Muslim and a non-radical Muslim - just by looking at him.

And no, don't say "the radical one is the one with the bomb strapped to his chest" ;)

You're right people are born everyday in messed up countries where the government could care less what happens to them. So how should we help those people? Weapons, aid, invasion? No matter what we do to help another country some other governmet is not going to be happy. Who had the most to lose when we invaded Iraq, Russia, France, China to name a few.

I don't remember anyone, from the EU, complaining when we roled into Bosnia or Kosovo. Should we being doing something about the atrocities that occur everyday in Africa, absolutely, but oil makes te world go round. Whether you like it or not everyone needs oil. If they find oil in Africa I bet we roll in there next.

Keeping "trying" to find a solution, but maybe we should just step into the real worldfrom time to time and see what is really going on. Talk is cheap

Plenty of oil in Africa, especially Sudan - we're just waiting for them to all kill each other before we roll in there ;)


What do I think we're doing over there? causing problems
I never said we should pull out tomorrow, but if we did what do you think would happen.

The "war on terror" would continue, but they'd bring the fight to us. Also, the Taliban would roll right back into Kabul and take over the government. Again. Opium fields would once again run rampant, once again funding their jihad. Do you even know why they're against us? Maybe something to do with radical Islam wanting to eliminate the "Zionist empire" in Israel and create a worldwide Islamic state?

[kastein]

No where in the Qua'ran does it say that killing yourself with take you to heaven where forty virgins are waiting.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it says 72. You're correct, it does not say 40.

[JNickel101]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it says 72. You're correct, it does not say 40.

Regardless of where it comes from (below articles seem to indicate that the virgins were promised by Muhammad), they believe it to be true
http://www.likud.nl/extr147.html
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=565

[xjackel]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it says 72. You're correct, it does not say 40.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5


This is just one site among hundreds you should look at. Do your research. Just like there were rules in the old testament about how many servants a man could own doesn't mean Christians should have slaves. Again, this is a radical's point of view, not muslim's.

[xjackel]

Show me how you can tell the difference between a radical Muslim and a non-radical Muslim - just by looking at him.

And no, don't say "the radical one is the one with the bomb strapped to his chest" ;)



Plenty of oil in Africa, especially Sudan - we're just waiting for them to all kill each other before we roll in there ;)




The "war on terror" would continue, but they'd bring the fight to us. Also, the Taliban would roll right back into Kabul and take over the government. Again. Opium fields would once again run rampant, once again funding their jihad. Do you even know why they're against us? Maybe something to do with radical Islam wanting to eliminate the "Zionist empire" in Israel and create a worldwide Islamic state?


You can't tell the difference, but that's not a good reason to kill them all.

Again, terrorism isn't just located in Iraq and Afghanistan, so these two wars aren't going to solve the terror problem. If we put as many resources into keeping the terrorist out as we do the wars it would be much more beneficial. It would also create more jobs here at home. Obliterating terrorist is not a viable option, they will be around for a long time. And their jihad against the Zionist empire has no end in sight.

[kastein]

Regardless of where it comes from (below articles seem to indicate that the virgins were promised by Muhammad), they believe it to be true
http://www.likud.nl/extr147.html
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=565
I'm actually just tweaking xjackel. I honestly don't give a flying rat's behind how many virgins they get... ;)

[ECKSJAY]

XBOX 360 GamerTag: AW x SNIP3DOWN
Rank: 1st prestige lvl 63
Favorite Gun(s): Intervention, UMP45, M16A4, and Scar-H
Playing style (e.g. serious, recreational, pro gamer): Serious but want to have fun.
How many hours do you play a week? 20 or so hours a week.
Your K/D ratio (found under Kills in the Leaderboards in Barracks.): 1.27 - 1.28 it goes back in forth.
Favorite game mode?: Search and Destroy and Mercenary Team Deathmatch
Do you own a mic?(suggested): Yes
Location (USA, UK, EU, Canada or other): USA
Timezone: Central Time Zone
Gamebattles username: xjackel
Age: 15
Where did you hear about us: Cod4boards.com
About Me: Im a strong determined player, have great team working skills, can be a leader if needed but will listen if told too. Just feel likes its just a game so have fun even while being serious during clan matches.
How should we contact you (Email, AIM, MSN etc.)? Over Xbox live, or by e-mail.
How active can you be on the site? Alittle bit active at the moment because my computer crashed and im on my moms little labtop but i will be more active once it is fixed.

[xjackel]

XBOX 360 GamerTag: AW x SNIP3DOWN
Rank: 1st prestige lvl 63
Favorite Gun(s): Intervention, UMP45, M16A4, and Scar-H
Playing style (e.g. serious, recreational, pro gamer): Serious but want to have fun.
How many hours do you play a week? 20 or so hours a week.
Your K/D ratio (found under Kills in the Leaderboards in Barracks.): 1.27 - 1.28 it goes back in forth.
Favorite game mode?: Search and Destroy and Mercenary Team Deathmatch
Do you own a mic?(suggested): Yes
Location (USA, UK, EU, Canada or other): USA
Timezone: Central Time Zone
Gamebattles username: xjackel
Age: 15
Where did you hear about us: Cod4boards.com
About Me: Im a strong determined player, have great team working skills, can be a leader if needed but will listen if told too. Just feel likes its just a game so have fun even while being serious during clan matches.
How should we contact you (Email, AIM, MSN etc.)? Over Xbox live, or by e-mail.
How active can you be on the site? Alittle bit active at the moment because my computer crashed and im on my moms little labtop but i will be more active once it is fixed.


And I thought you would never figure it out! :laugh3: I guess NAXJA is just impenetrable.

[ECKSJAY]

And I thought you would never figure it out! :laugh3: I guess NAXJA is just impenetrable.

Stop trolling our forum, Eric. :nono:

Did you ever recover your Xbox?

[Brad M.]

If we put as many resources into keeping the terrorist out as we do the wars it would be much more beneficial.

[xjackel]

I lost it?

[AIbandit]

I'm not your mother.


I guess that applies more then I thought :D

[xjackel]

So you don't see fighting these wars on their turf instead of ours as "keeping the terrorists out" then, do you?

Again, their turf is not specifically in Afghanistan or Iraq. I honestly think that these people are mad at our presence, and it's only fueling the hate machine that terrorism is. We can't tell whose a terrorist so you know there are innocent people being harmed. Just the pictures of the dead children after the bombing is enough to make innocent civilians angry and want revenge. I bet everyone there knows someone that was harmed by us that didn't deserve it and that's just making it easier for them to be recruited by the terrorist. We are powerful enough to protect our land with the resources we have. I would feel safer if the troops were at home and we worked on securing this land, not a lot of our resources in the middle east.

[ECKSJAY]

I lost it?

Either that or you filed a false report. :shhh:

[AIbandit]

Oh and nominated.

[xjackel]

Either that or you filed a false report. :shhh:

Yea my mommy helped me. On top of playing video games I love to talk about politics and jeeps:exclamati

[ECKSJAY]

Oh and nominated.

19yo gamer/stoner with no life experience, what did you expect?

All he ever learned about combat he got from Xbox Live.

[Brad M.]

19yo gamer/stoner with no life experience, what did you expect?

All he ever learned about combat he got from Xbox Live.

'Splains it. :D

[AIbandit]

19yo gamer/stoner with no life experience, what did you expect?

All he ever learned about combat he got from Xbox Live.

I knew I should of blamed Xbox. Oh well I'm sure MSNBC still fed him his political BS


I can't blame you for your ignorance. You watch your MSNBC and now think you're a tactical genius. It's alright it happens to the worst of us.

[xjackel]

I knew I should of blamed Xbox. Oh well I'm sure MSNBC still fed him his political BS

Wow, for being so young I sure show a lot more maturity than you guys. I haven't resorted to name calling when I don't have a comeback.

[karstic]

I think Iraqi's would be better off without us, all the bombing and chaos is a result of our presence.

I think the Sunni and Shiite have been going at it a little longer than that.

[goodburbon]

Islamic people aren't terrorist. Jim Jones claimed to be a Christian but he was an evil person. The same goes with Al Qaeda. They are radicals and a small portion of the Islamic faith. No where in the Qua'ran does it say that killing yourself with take you to heaven where forty virgins are waiting. There have been Christians that have done terrible things, but that doesn't make the Christian faith evil. There are over a billion Muslims in the world, and compare that to the number of them that are terrorist and they are nothing more than a crazy cult. For some reason Hitler hated jews and they were evil in his opinion, but that didn't make the Holocaust okay.

At what point did I suggest all terrorists are muslim? At what point did I suggest exterminating muslims? I said hunt down and kill the enemies of this country, and to bring the fight to the terrorists level by killing their families in Grotesque and public manner. I do not believe muslims are evil, I believe evil people are evil. I'm talking about fighting a war on terms that the enemy is familiar with. I'm talking about putting the fear of GOD into a people whose ultimate goal is my death or conversion.

You can not make nice with someone who wants you dead because you simply exist. You can not compromise with them. You can not leave them alone, because when you do they will use that opportunity to plan, build, train, and recruit. You can join them, or kill them. We had no quarrel with the taliban before 9/11, we supported them monetarily and supplied them in their fight against the soviets. This didn't keep them from hating us, being a refuge for those who hate us, or supplying/training those who mean us harm.

I like using the scar h as well.

[Darky]

Stop trolling our forum, Eric. :nono:

Did you ever recover your Xbox?
It was his computer that crashed, that's why he'smore active on XBox live.

Ah, to be 15 again...back when I knew it all.

Slightly related to original topic, who here has read The Kite Runner? Excellent book and gives you an insight into the life of an Afghani. The terror that the Taliban has inflicted on their own people. Just think, right now, our presence there is helping to keep the Taliban under control. If we leave, they search out and torture then kill every last Afghani who assisted us in even the most remote ways. From actual informants, to the guys who we paid $9/day to fill sandbags when I was in Kandahar.

We could not allow Saddam to continue to cause problems in the region. I guarantee you that he had WMDs, no matter what the MSM tells us. Why the hell else would he have risked the potential consequences of breaking the treaty and kicking the inspectors out?
I don't blame you kid for being misled and ignorant of the history behind all this, after all, you were still 3 yrs away from birth when we first went into Iraq because Saddam invaded Kuwait. 10-15yrs before you were born, Iran and Iraq had their big fight. 11 yrs before you was the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut by Islamic extremists. 241 Americans killed in one attack. You were just a toddler when Saddam was flaunting his lack of compliance regarding the terms of the ceasefire.

[xjackel]

I think the Sunni and Shiite have been going at it a little longer than that.

You're right. But the majority of that was before the gulf war b/c of Saddam. After the U.N. set their sanctions it wasn't nearly what it use to be. Were not helping the situation though.

[xjackel]

I'm not fifteen, believe it or not. Just b/c someone else in the world has the same user name as me doesn't make me them

[xjackel]

At what point did I suggest all terrorists are muslim? At what point did I suggest exterminating muslims? I said hunt down and kill the enemies of this country, and to bring the fight to the terrorists level by killing their families in Grotesque and public manner. I do not believe muslims are evil, I believe evil people are evil. I'm talking about fighting a war on terms that the enemy is familiar with. I'm talking about putting the fear of GOD into a people whose ultimate goal is my death or conversion.

You can not make nice with someone who wants you dead because you simply exist. You can not compromise with them. You can not leave them alone, because when you do they will use that opportunity to plan, build, train, and recruit. You can join them, or kill them. We had no quarrel with the taliban before 9/11, we supported them monetarily and supplied them in their fight against the soviets. This didn't keep them from hating us, being a refuge for those who hate us, or supplying/training those who mean us harm.

I like using the scar h as well.

You said you couldn't tell the difference between non-terrorist and terrorist. Again, why would the terrorist just be in Iraq or Afghanistan? The most powerful country in the world can't find one guy after looking for a decade? Our plan right now isn't working, and I think it's time to reconsider.

[ECKSJAY]

I'm not fifteen, believe it or not. Just b/c someone else in the world has the same user name as me doesn't make me them

It's not coincidence, Eric.

[goodburbon]

You said you couldn't tell the difference between non-terrorist and terrorist. Again, why would the terrorist just be in Iraq or Afghanistan? The most powerful country in the world can't find one guy after looking for a decade? Our plan right now isn't working, and I think it's time to reconsider.


1. I said no such thing.
2. No other major terrorist attacks have happened on US soil during that time. Something is working.
3. I agree, it is time to reconsider. It's time to get politicians out of the way of our soldiers, it's time to get the media out of the way of our soldiers. It's time to let the men we employ to do a job...to do that job. Excessive political involvement is what cost us the vietnam war, and it seems we haven't learned the lesson from that one.

[AIbandit]

I didn't "name call" I said MSNBC fed you your political bs.

way to fail though :D

[Darky]

XBOX 360 GamerTag: AW x SNIP3DOWN
Rank: 1st prestige lvl 63
Favorite Gun(s): Intervention, UMP45, M16A4, and Scar-H
Playing style (e.g. serious, recreational, pro gamer): Serious but want to have fun.
How many hours do you play a week? 20 or so hours a week.
Your K/D ratio (found under Kills in the Leaderboards in Barracks.): 1.27 - 1.28 it goes back in forth.
Favorite game mode?: Search and Destroy and Mercenary Team Deathmatch
Do you own a mic?(suggested): Yes
Location (USA, UK, EU, Canada or other): USA
Timezone: Central Time Zone
Gamebattles username: xjackel
Age: 15
Where did you hear about us: Cod4boards.com
About Me: Im a strong determined player, have great team working skills, can be a leader if needed but will listen if told too. Just feel likes its just a game so have fun even while being serious during clan matches.
How should we contact you (Email, AIM, MSN etc.)? Over Xbox live, or by e-mail.
How active can you be on the site? Alittle bit active at the moment because my computer crashed and im on my moms little labtop but i will be more active once it is fixed.

And I thought you would never figure it out! :laugh3: I guess NAXJA is just impenetrable.

Wow, for being so young I sure show a lot more maturity than you guys. I haven't resorted to name calling when I don't have a comeback.

I'm not fifteen, believe it or not. Just b/c someone else in the world has the same user name as me doesn't make me them
I don't know a lot lines up. It's not just one person in the world it's one other person in the CST, which coincidentally is where Indiana lies. And you yourself have already alluded to the fact that this XBox live person is the same as you.

[88 Wagonman]

Maybe war is good. It gets rid of the people that can't think for themselves.

Actually it BREEDS people like you that are ignorant and mouthy while we send our best, brightest bravest men and women to die for their country.

[Darky]

1. I said no such thing.
2. No other major terrorist attacks have happened on US soil during that time. Something is working.
3. I agree, it is time to reconsider. It's time to get politicians out of the way of our soldiers, it's time to get the media out of the way of our soldiers. It's time to let the men we employ to do a job...to do that job. Excessive political involvement is what cost us the vietnam war, and it seems we haven't learned the lesson from that one.
Yeah, how quickly we've forgotten the strategy in WWII: Bomb em, kill em, make it hurt until they beg for mercy. We sent bombers over Berlin and Hitler committed suicide. We bombed Tokyo then noked Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Japan, who everyone said had too much pride to ever break, broke.

[AIbandit]

Actually it BREEDS people like you that are ignorant and mouthy while we send our best, brightest bravest men and women to die for their country.

Wow I must of missed that post.


what a POS.

[xjackel]

I didn't "name call" I said MSNBC fed you your political bs.

way to fail though :D

Your a tard. Do you know what will happen if we pull out without finishing our mission?

What do you think we're doing over there? hanging out keeping it real?
You have no clue what you're talking about.



I can't blame you for your ignorance. You watch your MSNBC and now thing you're a tactical genius. It's alright it happens to the worst of us.

[88 Wagonman]

:rattle:

[xjackel]

Yeah, how quickly we've forgotten the strategy in WWII: Bomb em, kill em, make it hurt until they beg for mercy. We sent bombers over Berlin and Hitler committed suicide. We bombed Tokyo then noked Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Japan, who everyone said had too much pride to ever break, broke.

WWII was a totally different situation, there was a clearly defined enemy. Our enemy now is everywhere.

[Brad M.]

You call "tard" name calling? Geesh kid, grow some thicker skin and get out into the world and live a little. Our very presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, which you so terribly loathe, stabilizes the region - like it or not. But just for a second, let's take your approach. You've done the research, you've written your paper...

Over the next 5 yrs, the US withdraws all military presence in foreign countries. A total withdrawal, as you suggested. We put our troops all around our borders, and stop "bullying" the rest of the world. We focus solely on protecting our soil, here at our front door.

Now, what happens to the rest of the world? And really think about it... what about Iraq? Afghanistan? Iran? North Korea? Russia? China? Do you really think they will all just breathe a sigh of relief that we're gone, and go about their business without bothering us, or their neighbors?

[xjackel]

1. I said no such thing.
2. No other major terrorist attacks have happened on US soil during that time. Something is working.
3. I agree, it is time to reconsider. It's time to get politicians out of the way of our soldiers, it's time to get the media out of the way of our soldiers. It's time to let the men we employ to do a job...to do that job. Excessive political involvement is what cost us the vietnam war, and it seems we haven't learned the lesson from that one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

[ECKSJAY]

http://media.mlgpro.com/site/images/features/timeout_snipedown_headshot.jpg

[AIbandit]

Lol Where's dave

[goodburbon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States


There is a key word there Mr Reading Comprehension. MAJOR.:wave1:

next...

[AIbandit]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i66/kavenaugh/row-fail-boat-1.jpg


Soon I'll have enough tards to fill the boat.

[hubs97xj]

I'd like to take a moment and remind everyone to have their kids spayed and neutered.

[XJ-ARNIE]

Im sure that the SSG on here agrees with me when I say this. You'll never understand why war is needed unless youve seen the gates of hell, You'll never see the good of death unless youve lived it, and you'll never want to go back once youve been. Futhermore, youll never know whats its like to feel wrong for not being there with the men who still are, unless youve been. A nation that stands and looks for the same man for a decade is better than a nation that does nothing at all. We live in the greatest country on the planet, and trust me, Ive seen the world. Ive served with America's finest men. Men who have died, Men who have lost more than any of you on this forum have lost, and they lost it for their country, and they still stand tall and proud. Patriotic men, who fly our colors no matter what, and men who will defend them no matter what. The real heros, the real opinions and explanations you need to understand why we are overseas, belong to those who cannot give them to you. The opinions are buried, some of them are resting 7000 miles away, surroneded in hell. A place that you can never understand unless you go. I SERVED my nation, I ANSWERED when they called. for that I will never forget those who have gave to most. For that, I will support my nation when it goes to war, and I will always honor that flag, I will always pledge alegiance.

-HOOAH

SPC CRAIG ARNOLD---52 Months in, 27 Of those on OIF/OEF, 5 of them involontary.

[Boatwrench]

Why can't someone grow up and give me some reasons we should be in the war. I am more than willing to listen b/c I have an open mind. I don't understand why it's wrong to want my friends to come back from war.

Afghanistan = We were looking for Bin Laden. He left, we missed him.
Iraq = "They tried to kill my dad!"

We broke em, we own them. Next stop appears Yemen.

North Korea has nothing, absolutely nothing of value and are no longer a threat of conventional action against ROK, Japan, or SE Asia. Peoples Republic of China as a neighbor prevents anything other than a few border incursions and sabre rattling.

In war soldiers die. Are today's soldiers and sailors dying for your freedom? Yes, if we didn't keep the terrorists occupied over there, they will be on our shores (more than they are already). Every death is tragic, but in the grand scheme of facts and figures the US has had battles, yes battles, where more people were killed in one day than since 9/11 against the forces of terror.

Can I make it any simpler.

[Brad M.]

Afghanistan = We were looking for Bin Laden. He left, we missed him.
Iraq = "They tried to kill my dad!"

We broke em, we own them. Next stop appears Yemen.

North Korea has nothing, absolutely nothing of value and are no longer a threat of conventional action against ROK, Japan, or SE Asia. Peoples Republic of China as a neighbor prevents anything other than a few border incursions and sabre rattling.

In war soldiers die. Are today's soldiers and sailors dying for your freedom? Yes, if we didn't keep the terrorists occupied over there, they will be on our shores (more than they are already). Every death is tragic, but in the grand scheme of facts and figures the US has had battles, yes battles, where more people were killed in one day than since 9/11 against the forces of terror.

Can I make it any simpler.

Well said, except that I think Iran might come before Yemen if Israel's trigger finger gets itchy. :D

Hey Eric, it's apparent your stance on the war has changed thanks to your friend that came home recently? Post #34

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=981497&page=3

Do you mind sharing with the class why he came back so against it?

[AIbandit]

What do you mean explain? Seems simple to me, you do not know what war is.





MTFU or STFU

If he only listened to my advice :)

[msrorysddad]

I like toast

[Darky]

I like toast
white or wheat?

[DrMoab]

white or wheat?

Rye

[JNickel101]

or French? :D

[CherBear]

Maybe war is good. It gets rid of the people that can't think for themselves.

Holy hell, this is ridiculous. When Cherbear calls you ridiculous, you better listen.

[JNickel101]

Saturday night and I'm taking a break from writing a research paper on Syria - have to give a 10-15 minute speech on Monday covering history, national/political/military stats and "US interests in the country". Fun.

[AIbandit]

Holy hell, this is ridiculous. When Cherbear calls you ridiculous, you better listen.



Please don't go off topic.


I'm a fan of french toast aswell.

[wolfpackjeeper]

Freedom toast motherxxxxer

[AIbandit]

My bad



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MonHyvV5dEM

[JNickel101]

LOL...x2, my bad :D

[msrorysddad]

I want to make it perfectly clear, I do not discriminate against any toast, that is wrong. Death to all bagels!!! Hi, J good luck on your report, and speach.

[xjackel]

The following is what I based my opinions on the war off of. I took me a long time to type it so please take your time to read it before you reply. Feel free to check all my facts and correct me if I am wrong.


Brief History of Iraq

In 1533 to 1918 Iraq was split into three providences under the Ottoman Empire which constantly battled each other. During WWI the Ottomans took sides with Germany and the Central Powers. After the war was over, the Ottoman Empire was divided up under a League of Nations Mandate. The British imposed a monarchy without taking into account the different political and religious views of the separate regions. During the entire British occupation, Shi’ites and Kurds fought for their independence, and didn’t gain it until the Mandate officially ended in 1932. Things were still unsteady for Baghdad’s central government, and many coups and assassination attempts were made. In 1958 Iraq attempted to form a union with Kuwait to battle the rising discontent of the split cultures, but it was still under British rule leaving Iraq’s monarchy isolated. The only way to control the people was with further political oppression. July 14, 1958, the monarchy was overthrown and Iraq was declared a republic. In 1961, Kuwait gained independence from Britain and Iraq claimed sovereignty, leading to further instability. The leader of the republic was assassinated in 1963 (with support from the U.S.), and the Ba’athe Party took power. 9 months later they were overthrown by a coup. Then in 1968, the Ba’athe Party regained power and would remain for years to come. In 1979 the president resigned and General Saddam Hussein assumed power. He quickly built a strong security force to control the people and prevent another coup. Later that year, Saddam discovered that there was a secret group in the Ba’athe party and had them executed. Much to the dismay of the fundamental Muslims, he established a Secular government that gave woman more rights. Iraq was the first country in the region not to be controlled by Islamic law. He then oversaw the seizure of international oil wells, which causes the 73’ energy crisis, and their economy flourished. He used the money to modernize Iraq by offering free education, free hospitalization, and social care systems to citizens. He even received an award from the U.N. for setting an example in the middle east. All this time he also killed anyone who wasn’t loyal and suppressed the people who were opposed. During the 70’s the country experienced rapid expansion. Electricity was brought to every city, roads were built, and new industry was booming. Saddam carefully picked his staff and developed a strong group of followers while this was happening to stay in power. He made it clear that he was the leader and you would like it or die. After the Islamic Revolution in 1979 led by Shi’ite Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran, Saddam was afraid that the large population of Shi’ites in Iraq would again try to overthrow the government. Along with that Iran and Iraq were disputing over who owned land near the border, which lead to the Iran-Iraq war. Iraq was being defeated, so Saddam asked other countries for support, who were more than willing to help because they were afraid of a large radical Iranian influence in the middle east. Among those that helped were Russia, China, and the U.S. Saddam then began using chemical weapons on Iranian forces in southern Iraq, and on the Kurds (non-Arab Shi’ites) to the north, who where trying to create a porthole for Iranian troops to come in. The war was long and gruesome, and Iran refused the U.N.’s call for a ceasefire until Iraq paid war reparations. Then in March 1988 during a political campaign to regain control of their culture, a deadly mixture of mustard gas and nerve agents were dropped on a Kurdish town, killing 5000 and wounding 10000. A few months later the war was over with an estimated one million dead and no one could claim victory. Saddam’s government officials claimed that Iran had dropped the bomb, and so did U.S. analysis until a few years later. Then after the war, Saddam urged Kuwait to forgive the 30 billion dollar debt they owed them, but they refused. Then he urged other country’s to raise their oil prices so he could start paying countries back and re-stabilize the economy, but Kuwait refused. He claimed that Kuwait was part of Iraq, and they were sitting on just as large of an oil reserve, but their population was two million compared to Iraq’s 25 million. Negotiations were attempted and failed. Saddam met with a U.S. ambassador before invading and was told that the U.S. did not want force used and refused to take a side on the border dispute and did not want to become involved. In the 80’s the U.S. gave Saddam 40 billion dollars for the war, and billions more to not become allies with the Soviets, making Saddam’s Iraq the third largest U.S. aid recipient in history. Iraq invaded anyway using the money from other countries to fund the attack. Then the U.S. led a U.N. coalition into Kuwait and drove the Iraqi’s out. After the war was over, rebellions were again arising among the different cultures because of the instability. Saddam’s support group got split apart from the war, and the conservative Muslims were become more powerful. Saddam started to portray himself as a devout Muslim in an attempt to cope with a lot of the population. Repression grew worse and Saddam’s sons became more powerful and evil. And then we showed up.

Now those were facts and these are my thoughts on them.
1. Iraq erupts in civil war whenever there isn’t a strong dictative government controlling the people. Is it a good idea to invade and try to institute democracy? Saddam’s tyranny was a way to control these people.
2. We’re not fighting terrorism we’re fighting groups of people who want to be in control. They’re not fighting America, they’re fighting people that came in and took control of their government. Democracy won’t work when the majority of the population wants the minority dead.
3. We can give Saddam billions to buy wmd’s to use on Iran while we look the other way, why draw the line?
4. Everyone says we just can’t leave Iraq, but were in a 3 way civil war with a little terrorism mixed in between. Why not just let them kill themselves. History always tells the truth but the future is nothing but speculation. These groups have been fight for hundreds of years, why could we stop it?
5. I consider if they weren’t fighting over there, they would be here a bunch of BS. I bet they would be much more satisfied blowing up something here, and the “war on terrorism” in only two countries isn’t going to stop them.
6. As for Afghanistan, I bet Osama’s not there anymore. The Taliban is going to keep recruiting and training elsewhere and throwing them at our troops. It starting to sound like Vietnam.

Am I the only one on this forum that feel that way?

[AIbandit]

I still prefer french toast.


Test those google skills of yours.

What happened the last time we pulled out of Afgahn.

[xjackel]

I still prefer french toast.


Test those google skills of yours.

Are you talking about the Reagan era?
If so, I think it's about like Iraq is now. Their longest period of stability in history was only 40 years. There's always going to be a battle between competing groups over there, whether it's us or someone else.

What did you think of my view on Iraq? I didn't get my info from msnbc or xbox

[ECKSJAY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Susr1asQypg&feature=channel

[hubs97xj]

Awesome.

[theNAST1EST]

DAMMIT!!

I took a half hour to read this entire thread, and the only thing that made sense was was the unparalleled deliciousness of french toast...


PS Eric, you'll be an all-star in college. Professors will eat your BS right off the floor...NUM NUM NUM NUM NUMMIES!!

[JNickel101]

Are you talking about the Reagan era?
If so, I think it's about like Iraq is now. Their longest period of stability in history was only 40 years. There's always going to be a battle between competing groups over there, whether it's us or someone else.

What did you think of my view on Iraq? I didn't get my info from msnbc or xbox

I guess you think we shouldn't keep stopping people from attempting to exterminate the Jewish population from the earth...

You're right Eric, we shouldn't have jumped in on WWII and just let Hitler kill them all...

:rolleyes:

"God willing, our raids on you will continue as long as your support for the Israelis continues."

[xjackel]

I guess you think we shouldn't keep stopping people from attempting to exterminate the Jewish population from the earth...

You're right Eric, we shouldn't have jumped in on WWII and just let Hitler kill them all...

:rolleyes:

First, I'm not Erik. I picked xjackel because it had xj in it and all the good one's were taken. Second, we went to war b/c we were attacked by a clearly defined enemy, not a group of radicals. Do you think we should send troops to Israel? Hitler killed the six million people b/c of their race and he declared war on America. These things are not close in comparison. The competing groups in the middle east are fighting for what they think is right, so besides getting them all to come to an agreement things won't change. All we've done is ad our opinion to the mix and cause more damage.

[Darky]

First, I'm not Erik. I picked xjackel because it had xj in it and all the good one's were taken. Second, we went to war b/c we were attacked by a clearly defined enemy, not a group of radicals. Do you think we should send troops to Israel? Hitler killed the six million people b/c of their race and he declared war on America. These things are not close in comparison. The competing groups in the middle east are fighting for what they think is right, so besides getting them all to come to an agreement things won't change. All we've done is ad our opinion to the mix and cause more damage.
Whether we are at minding our business or fighting overseas, terrorists will hate us and want to kill us. They hate us because we support the Jews. They hate us because we aren't Muslim. The Qu'ran states that you are to convert or be killed. Not all Muslims enforce that but that's a big part of the extremists' ideology.

Do some research on Muhammad. Everything he said is considered law. If he said it, Muslims are supposed to do it. If he did it, it is considered the right thing to do. Look him up and tell me if you think we should sit by and let people influenced by him attempt to run stuff.

As for the rest of your points:
1. Saddam's tyranny may have controlled them, but at what cost? He murdered millions. He'd set prisoners loose in an indoor hunting ground and have his sons, as young as 10 or so, hunt them down and kill them.
2. We're fighting people who want us dead. Simple as that. Most of the people we're fighting in Iraq are being shipped in from other Muslim nations.Talk to people who have actually been there, the Iraqis who lived under Saddam are happy to be rid of him.
3. So, because we did something wrong back then, we should never do the right thing again? Faulty logic. At the time Iran was a bigger threat to us than Iraq and giving them money was a better way to keep Iran in check then sending troops.
4. Because as you pointed out, the majority wants the minority dead. We leave and the Kurds are dead.
5. Those two countries are where the groups fighting us are based.
6. Yeah, chances are good that Osama's not there anymore. The Taliban is still there. Al Qaeda still operates there. Our mission has changed. We're trying to stabilize the area so that fewer people are willing to go blow themselves up in order to provide for their families' well-being.

And yes, you are among the extreme minority on this forum.

[AIbandit]

Allah Akbar

[JNickel101]

Really? When did Germany attack the US in WWII? And do you know why Hitler declared war on the US?

I'll give you time to Google that...

[Darky]

Really? When did Germany attack the US in WWII? And do you know why Hitler declared war on the US?

I'll give you time to Google that...
Didn't Hitler attack us at the Battle of Gettysburg?

[xjackel]

Really? When did Germany attack the US in WWII? And do you know why Hitler declared war on the US?

I'll give you time to Google that...

No we went to war because we were attacked.

[Boatwrench]

First, I'm not Erik.

Seems you are now.

The first rule in debate should be, when in a hole...quit digging.

It wasn't Gettysburg, it was during the Revolution. George threw a dollar across the river and hit one in the head with it. All hell broke loose from there.

[AIbandit]

Didn't Hitler attack us at the Battle of Gettysburg?

Wrong, it was during the war of 1812.


It wasn't Gettysburg, it was during the Revolution. George threw a dollar across the river and hit one in the head with it. All hell broke loose from there.

George did have quiet the throwing arm but I think you need to check your facts.

[green_machine]

I am a soldier in the U.S. Army and i have done 1 tour in afganistan and 2 in Iraq and belive me there is a purpose, i was on missions that took down terrorist, i was on missions that took down bomb makers, i was on mission where i fought al queda, i have fought the taliban and any other stupid F*** that wanted to shoot at us. This war sucks, war in general sucks, i hate seeing my friends die, and i am tired of going to 21 gun salute after 21 gun salute and loosing a part of my life, i am tired of having nightmares, i am tired of being angry all the time, i am tired of having post tramatic stress disorder, i am tired of my family thinking i am crazy, and i wouldent trade it in for a single thing and i would do it all over again in a heartbeat, if that meant that we keep fighting people who hate americans and want to kill us can try on a forgien soil instead of our own. What so many people dont understand about what is going on right now is that there will always be war, wether we are a part of it or not weather it is in our country or not, it is human nature since the beggining of mankind. We have been a war for years and years, you just dont hear about the special ops teams who deploy in 7 man groups and halo in to some camp in the middle of the Egyptian desert and kill 20 people who were making plans to overthrow a American embassy somewhere, you dont hear about stuff like that on the news do you, you are told what the news wants you to hear insted of the actual truth, they can make up anything they want and the American population will belive it, you dont know that that huge battle you saw on the news where the U.S. lost 5 people took place 4 years ago and they are showing you a repetitive clip, when the actual truth is we only had one wounded and we killed 6 of thoes terriorist, and the American flag drapped coffins were from somolia or a different battle in a different time, you are being fooled. When i was in Iraq in 2003 the actual real report of casualties of both sides was about 1,500 americans died and we had killed somewhere around 18,000 enemy but they dont tell you that, this is the most succsefull conflict/war that has ever been fought in the history of our nation or probably any other for that matter. So do me a favor guys next time you see a soldier tell him thanks, thanks for being away from his family for a year at a time, thanks for doing something i didnt have the courage to do, thanks for defending your cousin, or brothers or fathers honor that died over there and then shake his hand because that is probably the reason we are able to live the life that we live and enjoy the freedoms we do, think about it and dont belive what you see on the news, in my opinion you dont have anything truly concrete to say about war unless you have been there yourself,
SGT. Todd R. Green, airborne, hooah

[JNickel101]

:thumbup:

I look forward to reading Eric's response to SGT Green's post.

:patriot:

[XJEEPER]

Thanks for sharing your pespective, for your sacrifice and your service, SGT Green.

:patriot:

[xjackel]

SGT. Green,

I will never be able to understand your pain or know the experience of war. I worked with a guy named Samo that did two tours in Iraq, and he said he would rather go to jail than go back over there. He has lost the majority of his hearing and is struggling with insomnia. I understand that war is in human nature and it's always been around and always will be, but with no end in sight I think soldiers like you should never have had to go through that. I posted a link to a video of a veteran that can say a lot more than I can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akm3nYN8aG8

[AIbandit]

I worked with a guy named Samo

Did you share this opinion with your buddy Samo highspeed?

Maybe war is good. It gets rid of the people that can't think for themselves.

[IslanderOffRoad]

Now those were facts and these are my thoughts on them.
1. Iraq erupts in civil war whenever there isn’t a strong dictative government controlling the people. Is it a good idea to invade and try to institute democracy? Saddam’s tyranny was a way to control these people.
2. We’re not fighting terrorism we’re fighting groups of people who want to be in control. They’re not fighting America, they’re fighting people that came in and took control of their government. Democracy won’t work when the majority of the population wants the minority dead.
3. We can give Saddam billions to buy wmd’s to use on Iran while we look the other way, why draw the line?
4. Everyone says we just can’t leave Iraq, but were in a 3 way civil war with a little terrorism mixed in between. Why not just let them kill themselves. History always tells the truth but the future is nothing but speculation. These groups have been fight for hundreds of years, why could we stop it?
5. I consider if they weren’t fighting over there, they would be here a bunch of BS. I bet they would be much more satisfied blowing up something here, and the “war on terrorism” in only two countries isn’t going to stop them.
6. As for Afghanistan, I bet Osama’s not there anymore. The Taliban is going to keep recruiting and training elsewhere and throwing them at our troops. It starting to sound like Vietnam.

Am I the only one on this forum that feel that way?

Do you play blackjack? Can you count cards?

I've heard before that retards are good at that stuff, can I take you to Vegas?

[hubs97xj]

Did you share this opinion with your buddy Samo highspeed?

I'd bet not- for the same reasons idiots like this try to have "discussions" like this anonymously on the internet.

[theNAST1EST]

Thank you, SGT. Green.

[beakie]

Well said Sgt Green, I have tried passing those same feelings to those up here that can't understand why we are in Afghanistan.
the news/tv/internet will tell you whatever sells the most papers/ads/clicks.

the way I try to relate it is this:
I can watch the news and it says its raining on the other side of town at my buddies place, so I believe it... but when my buddy comes over for a few beer he tells me it was clear skies.

if you want answers, ask those who have been there... otherwise its not worth shit.

as for those who feel more security measures are required at the borders/airports/etc... thats what I would consider being somewhat re-active... going to their front doors/cave/hole in the ground... thats being pro-active.

[green_machine]

Your welcome guys and thank you too, for being supportive

[xjackel]

I may be alone on this forum, but 65% of Americans think the invasion was a mistake. If troops are fighting for our freedom, then their fighting for our right to have our own opinions. My opinion is our troops should not be fighting a loosing battle. Many countries have had success avoiding conflicts and I think we could too. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, and I'll stop posting because different ideas are obviously not welcome. I said some things I shouldn't have that I don't truly mean and for that 1000 apologies. NAXJA is a great site that has taught me everything I need to know about my Jeep and I should've kept my mouth shut. I posted some statistics that I found interesting, and you can believe them or not. This will be my last post, so farewell and best of luck.:wave:


U.S. SPENDING IN IRAQ

Spent & Approved War-Spending - About $800 billion of US taxpayers' funds spent or approved for spending through mid-2009, including $76 billion requested by President Obama and approved by Congress.

U.S. 2009 Monthly Spending in Iraq - $7.3 billion as of Oct 2009

U.S. 2008 Monthly Spending in Iraq - $12 billion

U.S. Spending per Second - $5,000 in 2008 (per Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on May 5, 2008)

Cost of deploying one U.S. soldier for one year in Iraq - $390,000 (Congressional Research Service)

Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq - $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.

Missing - $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces. (Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq - $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported - $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items - $20 billion

Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion

Number of major U.S. bases in Iraq - 75 (The Nation/New York Times)

TROOPS IN IRAQ

Troops in Iraq - Total 115,000 U.S. troops as of November 30, 2009. All other nations have withdrawn their troops.

U.S. Troop Casualties - 4,374 US troops; 98% male. 91% non-officers; 82% active duty, 11% National Guard; 74% Caucasian, 9% African-American, 11% Latino. 19% killed by non-hostile causes. 54% of US casualties were under 25 years old. 72% were from the US Army

Non-U.S. Troop Casualties - Total 316, with 179 from the UK

US Troops Wounded - 31,616 through September 30, 2009, 20% of which are serious brain or spinal injuries. (Total excludes psychological injuries.)

US Troops with Serious Mental Health Problems - 30% of US troops develop serious mental health problems within 3 to 4 months of returning home

US Military Helicopters Downed in Iraq - 73 total, at least 36 by enemy fire

IRAQI TROOPS, CIVILIANS & OTHERS IN IRAQ

Private Contractors in Iraq, Working in Support of US Army Troops - More than 180,000 in August 2007, per The Nation/LA Times.

Journalists killed - 140, 93 by murder and 47 by acts of war

Journalists killed by US Forces - 14

Iraqi Police and Soldiers Killed - 9,356

Iraqi Civilians Killed, Estimated - A UN issued report dated Sept 20, 2006 stating that Iraqi civilian casualties have been significantly under-reported. Casualties are reported at 50,000 to over 100,000, but may be much higher. Some informed estimates place Iraqi civilian casualities at over 600,000.

Iraqi Insurgents Killed, Roughly Estimated - 55,000

Non-Iraqi Contractors and Civilian Workers Killed - 569

Non-Iraqi Kidnapped - 306, including 57 killed, 147 released, 4 escaped, 6 rescued and 89 status unknown.

Daily Insurgent Attacks, Feb 2004 - 14

Daily Insurgent Attacks, July 2005 - 70

Daily Insurgent Attacks, May 2007 - 163

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Nov 2003 - 15,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Oct 2006 - 20,000 - 30,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, June 2007 - 70,000

QUALITY OF LIFE INDICATORS

Iraqis Displaced Inside Iraq, by Iraq War, as of May 2007 - 2,255,000

Iraqi Refugees in Syria & Jordan - 2.1 million to 2.25 million

Iraqi Unemployment Rate - 27 to 60%, where curfew not in effect

Consumer Price Inflation in 2006 - 50%

Iraqi Children Suffering from Chronic Malnutrition - 28% in June 2007 (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Percent of professionals who have left Iraq since 2003 - 40%

Iraqi Physicians Before 2003 Invasion - 34,000

Iraqi Physicians Who Have Left Iraq Since 2005 Invasion - 12,000

Iraqi Physicians Murdered Since 2003 Invasion - 2,000

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 1 to 2 hours, per Ryan Crocker, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (Per Los Angeles Times, July 27, 2007)

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 10.9 in May 2007

Average Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 5.6 in May 2007

Pre-War Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 16 to 24

Number of Iraqi Homes Connected to Sewer Systems - 37%

Iraqis without access to adequate water supplies - 70% (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Water Treatment Plants Rehabilitated - 22%

RESULTS OF POLL Taken in Iraq in August 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense (Source: Brookings Institute)

Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%

Iraqis who believe Coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security - less than 1%

Iraqis who feel less secure because of the occupation - 67%

Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%

[XJEEPER]

I can sum the topic of war up in two words:

Good.....Evil

Both have been around since mankind was placed on the Earth. Because of this, you have to choose a side.

"Bully on the Playground" is a simplified example which most can relate.

Rarely do the Bullies think they are doing anything wrong, because there are plenty of toaties sucking up to them and supporting their actions, because the toaties know that if they don't, the bully will pick on them too.

When the day comes, and it always does come, that an individual or group of individuals has the courage to stand up to the bully, call him out for what he is and inform him that his power-trip is over, Peace is restored to the playground.......until enough time passes that another Bully shows up to start the process again.

Now apply this on a global scale and it's pretty easy for even the kids on the short bus to pick out the Bullys.


Billions of people since the beginning of mankind have lost their lives, just because they weren't supportive of their own leaders, were the "wrong race or ethinicity" or just plain consumed too many resources, in the minds of those in a position to make them dead.

When those who believe that Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are inalienable, God-given rights, it is difficult for them to sit by and watch, beat on our chest and yell for the bad guys to knock it off......it just doesn't have the same results as striking swiftly, with enough force to make those perpetuating the Evil deeds on their fellow men to stop.

Historically, those who have conceeded to sitting around in a circle and singing kum-ba-ya as the best solution, have eventually wound up fertilizing their own little patch of Earth, unless some other group to their rescue with enough firepower to keep them from being killed.

This world will never be without wars, contention and conflict until the great day when the evil influence of Satan is gone.

Until then, we must continue to fight for and defend what is good and right.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmond Burke

[AIbandit]

All this talk about french toast makes me hungry

[hubs97xj]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, and I'll stop posting because different ideas are obviously not welcome.

You apologize, but not without taking another jab. Classy.

[AIbandit]

Maybe war is good. It gets rid of the people that can't think for themselves.

You're right this opinion is not welcome here.

[wolfpackjeeper]

All this talk about french toast makes me hungry

I was gonna have some freedom toast for dinner but was out of eggs. So it is pork chop sandwiches instead

You apologize, but not without taking another jab. Classy.

Would you expect any less. I still love the line about "Fighting a loosing battle". Even The House Dems had given up on that term as being a little ridiculous.

[ECKSJAY]

I worked with a guy named Samo that did two tours in Iraq, and he said he would rather go to jail than go back over there. He has lost the majority of his hearing and is struggling with insomnia.

I'd pay to hear what Samo the Magical Fobbit's chain of command would say about him. Chances are he was a worthless POS and people couldn't WAIT to get him out of the office. He probably lost his hearing from playing his iPod too loud.

:looser:

[theNAST1EST]

Sheesh, 12 pages...the troll accomplished one thing...

[Boatwrench]

As a moderator thought of locking this thread after SGT Green's post. Not more needed to be said after that one. I wish I had. Erik has also had this thread & post reported, and although it is understandable how the person reporting can be upset; the thought of the war protestors who also say things I think are stupid popped into my head. The Constitution, Freedom of Speech that the men and women of the armed forces stand up to protect & perserve allow these folks to express that opinion, no matter how messed up or controversial we may think it to be. Maybe when Erick gets older he will understand.

SGT Green, thank you for your service. Thank you for eloquently explaining things to young Erik. Alas, he is just to young to get it.


BT---BT---BT

A.I.
I really like Texas Toast the best.

[msrorysddad]

:us::lecture:
To all whom have, are and will serve, my family thanks you.
Xjspackle, don't get your feelings hurt, just don't do the lefty shuffle on a board that seems to not lean to the left and expect people to not flame you.
I like home made toast with honey, a large glass of milk, and the smell of smokeless powder emanating from my black rifles. Mmmmm
Wolfpack, porkchop sandwiches, get the **** outta here, G.I. Joe PSA

[DeftwillP]

Thank you, SGT. Green.

x11tybillion:patriot:

[wolfpackjeeper]

:us::lecture:
Wolfpack, porkchop sandwiches, get the **** outta here, G.I. Joe PSA

They were delicious, not the freedom toast I wanted, but delicious. I let them soak in some terayaki sauce with some lemon pepper, seasoned salt, chili powder, and pepper, with a touch of Worcestershire sauce. Then grill them. Add some AuGratin potatoes and green beans with a Sunkist and that was a tasty meal. Plus my radar strike flight for tomorrow was just cancelled, so my night is rockin'.

I did think of the GI Joe PSA a few times while cooking though.

[ECKSJAY]

Hey kid, I'm a computer. Stop all the downloadin'.

[XJEEPER]

I may be alone on this forum, but 65% of Americans think the invasion was a mistake. If troops are fighting for our freedom, then their fighting for our right to have our own opinions. My opinion is our troops should not be fighting a loosing battle. Many countries have had success avoiding conflicts and I think we could too. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, and I'll stop posting because different ideas are obviously not welcome. I said some things I shouldn't have that I don't truly mean and for that 1000 apologies. NAXJA is a great site that has taught me everything I need to know about my Jeep and I should've kept my mouth shut. I posted some statistics that I found interesting, and you can believe them or not. This will be my last post, so farewell and best of luck.:wave:

Current cost of
U.S. SPENDING IN IRAQ

Spent & Approved War-Spending - About $800 billion of US taxpayers' funds spent or approved for spending through mid-2009, including $76 billion requested by President Obama and approved by Congress.



Now you just sound whiney......it's OK that people don't agree with you. I don't agree with everything that is happening or has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, but pulling out before the job is done is not an option. Our troops are not being allowed to do the job they are capable of doing, blame this on politics.

You should be more concerned about the enemy within the current US Goverment. They are at war with capitalism, your Freedom and Liberty.

For some perspective:


Current cost of the Iraq War......$703 Billion http://costofwar.com/ (http://costofwar.com/)

Cost of bailouts:


In 2009 alone, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae have cost taxpayer $300 Billion. http://www.housingwire.com/2010/01/14/fannie-freddie-cost-government-291bn-in-2009/


AIG Bailout $182 Billion http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/19/business/main6116417.shtml


The Federal Reserve has committed $5.5 trillion and spent $2.1 trillion. These amounts relate to various initiatives aimed at the mortgage crisis and credit freeze (http://www.mortgageloan.com/finance-glossary/Credit_freeze), including the Citigroup bailout and the shotgun marriage of JPMorgan and Bear Stearns.


The FDIC has committed $1.5 trillion and spent $149 billion to guarantee Citigroup assets, interbank loans, and prop up GE Capital (http://www.mortgageloan.com/finance-glossary/capital).


The Treasury has committed $1.1 trillion and spent $597 billion, not including the automaker bailout that will get tapped by GM before year-end. The Treasury's programs include the Troubled Asset (http://www.mortgageloan.com/finance-glossary/asset) Relief Program, tax rebate checks of 2008, tax breaks for banks, and a program to stabilize foreign currency exchange rates.


The FHA has committed and tapped $300 billion to ramp up the Hope for Homeowners program.

True cost, budget deficit impact unknown


Given the nature of the various bailout initiatives, it's not possible to estimate the final true cost, or even the deficit impact of these programs. Several initiatives were structured as investments, allowing for positive returns over time. But allowing for positive returns, and achieving positive returns, are two very different things. The possibility of making a buck on these transactions, for example, seems dim:


Hope for Homeowners. The $300 billion initiative is expected to avert fewer than 14,000 foreclosures in its first year. At that rate, it seems doubtful that the resulting equity share arrangements could cumulatively cover the cost of the program-let alone heal the mortgage crisis.
I won't even dig into the costs to the taxpayer in money wasted on Climate Change junk science and Healthcare reform.......