Balancing w/BBs Question

I tried to balance my 31" used MTRs with BBs a few months back only to have it not work. I used 6oz I believe. I went by the chart on the innovativebalancing sit. I think I used the plastic BBs that weighed .12grams. Did I used the wrong BBs? Any other tips. Oh and my tires now are balanced with wheel weights and are out of balance. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

well if you still had the bb's in when you tried to spin balance them with wheel weights then that is going to throw everything off

X2 on spin balancing with the BBs still in. I'm running 31" BFG MTs that are bead balanced and about 9oz. of BBs per tire, and haven't had any issues. It's not the the individual BB weight that matters, it's the weight off all the BBs that are put in the tire. 9oz of BBs still weigh 9oz, weather you use .12grams or .20grams, you just use less of them with 20grams.

My mistake. I tried to balance with BBs for about a week had no luck. Dismounted all my tires and took all the BBs out. Thane spin balanced with no BBs in them.

is ther another chart I can go by for amount of BBs? If I put too many BBs in the tire will it matter?

Now I am not trying to argue cause I know a lot of you believe in the balance BBs, however I mount and balance tires daily at work and 95% of them are 31" or larger. Most 31-33" tires (especially Goodyear) don't take more then 1-3oz of weight. SO if you drop 6oz of BBs in to balance out a tire that calls for lets say 3oz where are the other 3oz's of BBs going????

Ottexj2000 try and get your tire rebalanced at a shop with a high speed balancer, or check and see it you have a bent wheel I am guessing your tires are balanced poorly.

Well I work at a shop and balanced the tires myself. These tires are the only ones that have given me any trouble balancing out. I want these freaking wheel weights gone. And I went by the chart on inniovative balancing and well it didnt work. Thats why I wanted to know If there were any other charts to go by. I assume any extra BBs would just roll around in the tire.

Maybe your tires are out of round?

ottexj2000 said:

Well I work at a shop and balanced the tires myself. These tires are the only ones that have given me any trouble balancing out. I want these freaking wheel weights gone. And I went by the chart on inniovative balancing and well it didnt work. Thats why I wanted to know If there were any other charts to go by. I assume any extra BBs would just roll around in the tire.

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How fast does your balancer spin? most only hit around 20-30 mph and most issues with out of balance tires are at higher speeds.

Just my opinion I dont think that the BBs, or equal work I get people in my shop all the time that try it and say that it didnt make a difference. I believe that they work well in big rigs but not smaller tires.

My buddy has his 33,s on his cj7 bal with bb,s and has had no issues with them..

I put 9ozs in my 33s and I am amazed how well they work.

The rest of the BB's should be going to opposite ends of the tires. To clarify it lets assume you mount a 33" tire with a 3oz extra imbalance in the tread in one area. With traditional lead wheel weights you put the wheel and tire on a balancing machine and the machine spins it. When the tire stops spinning, the machine tells the tech to put 3oz of weight on the rim on the opposing side of the imbalance. So now as the balanced tire spins the two opposing 3oz forces cancel each other out (until the 3oz imbalance in the tread wears off, thus requiring a new balancing).

But lets say you get that same 33" tire with the 3oz imbalance in the tread, borrow some tire spoons, and mount it on a wheel in your own driveway. How is the average joe supposed to know where and how much this tire is out of balance? He doesn't. So instead he goes to a sporting goods type store and/or department, buys a GIANT jug of airsoft BB's for like $20 or a 4000 count jar of traditional steel zinc coated (not copper, it will clog your valve stems) BB's for $9 and brings them home. He then, in theory, puts 10oz of BB's in his tire/wheel combo. I say in theory because this poor fellow actually begins to weigh out 10oz of BB's, then he cant find his scale, so he sees on the package a per BB weight, so he converts that to Oz. and starts to count BB's. Halfway through he realizes that he did a liquid measure conversion not a solid measure conversion. Then he knocks over the cup he was measuring into and loses about half of the BB's. So he googles it, finds the shot glass measurement estimate for his particular BB weight, measures it out, pours them in, adds a pinch more just in case(and because he has no desire to break the bead again), drives down the road, kicks himself for not doing this sooner, then raves about the benefits of dynamic balancing to all his friends and strangers on the interweb.

But where do the rest of the BB's go? Well the first three ounces of the 10oz of BB's go to the opposing side of the original 3oz tread imbalance, canceling it out. Another ounce or so spreads out and balances another 1oz or so in imperfection in the tread carcass. But where do the rest of the 6oz of beads go? I mean you now potentially have 6oz of imbalance inside your tire, twice the original amount! Where do the beads go? They balance themselves! Just imagine the 6oz clump splitting in half, 3oz going to either side of the tire, and perfectly balancing each other. Realistically the beads spread out around the inside of the tire and balance themselves out all around the inside carcass of the tread.

Can it ride as smooth as a traditionally wheel weight balanced tire? Probably. But remember this is a 33" MT tire (probably used and chunked) most likely on a cheap steel wheel, mounted on a trail rig with a clobbered together suspension, death wobble, and those wheel bearings that really need to be replaced. So realistically we're not hoping for a perfect Cadillac ride, just maintainable road speeds.

And won't the BB's prematurely wear the insides of your tires? Probably, but not nearly as fast as an asphalt road grinding by at 60 mph with 4000+ pounds of trail rig pressing down on it will wear out the outsides of your tires.

Just my thoughts,
Jessie B

bradow said:

The rest of the BB's should be going to opposite ends of the tires. To clarify it lets assume you mount a 33" tire with a 3oz extra imbalance in the tread in one area. With traditional lead wheel weights you put the wheel and tire on a balancing machine and the machine spins it. When the tire stops spinning, the machine tells the tech to put 3oz of weight on the rim on the opposing side of the imbalance. So now as the balanced tire spins the two opposing 3oz forces cancel each other out (until the 3oz imbalance in the tread wears off, thus requiring a new balancing).

But lets say you get that same 33" tire with the 3oz imbalance in the tread, borrow some tire spoons, and mount it on a wheel in your own driveway. How is the average joe supposed to know where and how much this tire is out of balance? He doesn't. So instead he goes to a sporting goods type store and/or department, buys a GIANT jug of airsoft BB's for like $20 or a 4000 count jar of traditional steel zinc coated (not copper, it will clog your valve stems) BB's for $9 and brings them home. He then, in theory, puts 10oz of BB's in his tire/wheel combo. I say in theory because this poor fellow actually begins to weigh out 10oz of BB's, then he cant find his scale, so he sees on the package a per BB weight, so he converts that to Oz. and starts to count BB's. Halfway through he realizes that he did a liquid measure conversion not a solid measure conversion. Then he knocks over the cup he was measuring into and loses about half of the BB's. So he googles it, finds the shot glass measurement estimate for his particular BB weight, measures it out, pours them in, adds a pinch more just in case(and because he has no desire to break the bead again), drives down the road, kicks himself for not doing this sooner, then raves about the benefits of dynamic balancing to all his friends and strangers on the interweb.

But where do the rest of the BB's go? Well the first three ounces of the 10oz of BB's go to the opposing side of the original 3oz tread imbalance, canceling it out. Another ounce or so spreads out and balances another 1oz or so in imperfection in the tread carcass. But where do the rest of the 6oz of beads go? I mean you now potentially have 6oz of imbalance inside your tire, twice the original amount! Where do the beads go? They balance themselves! Just imagine the 6oz clump splitting in half, 3oz going to either side of the tire, and perfectly balancing each other. Realistically the beads spread out around the inside of the tire and balance themselves out all around the inside carcass of the tread.

Can it ride as smooth as a traditionally wheel weight balanced tire? Probably. But remember this is a 33" MT tire (probably used and chunked) most likely on a cheap steel wheel, mounted on a trail rig with a clobbered together suspension, death wobble, and those wheel bearings that really need to be replaced. So realistically we're not hoping for a perfect Cadillac ride, just maintainable road speeds.

And won't the BB's prematurely wear the insides of your tires? Probably, but not nearly as fast as an asphalt road grinding by at 60 mph with 4000+ pounds of trail rig pressing down on it will wear out the outsides of your tires.

Just my thoughts,
Jessie B

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awesome lol

I put them in brand new tires and wheels in my daily driver with a well tuned suspension with no death wobble and they balance great.

See and another thing with the BBs that I dont buy is that they work like magic and find the imbalanced part of the tire and stick in that one spot while the tire is moving at a fair speed.... again I dont buy it. I believe that they either all move out fairly equal and dont help at all or that centrifugal force will make most of the BBs stick where ever they catch enough force.

The reason that I think this is cause I could mount 5 sets of the same brand and size of tires and not balance any of them and let the customer leave and I bet maybe at most 2 would show back up and say I have a slight vibration at such and such speed.

Again this is just my opinion, again I mount and balance truck, Jeep, SUV, and 4x4 tires daily. I have a shop stocked full of tires from 30" to 40-42"s I might do anywhere from 1 to 8 sets of tires a day sometimes.

I used regular BB's to balance the 40" TSL's on my old rig. It worked better than any other balancing method I had used.

Was it perfect, no, but it was the best method I have used. You would feel a vib while speeding up or slowing down, but once you hit cruise speed, or a constant speed, it would settle out within 30 -45 sec and you had a nice smooth ride until you change speed again.

And oh yeah, you'd hear the BB's falling and hitting the rim when you stopped.

Now, something none of yall have mentioned, is if a 33" tire takes 3 oz to balance at the rim, it will only take 1.5 oz at the tread, since it is 2x as far away.

TRCM said:

I used regular BB's to balance the 40" TSL's on my old rig. It worked better than any other balancing method I had used.

Was it perfect, no, but it was the best method I have used. You would feel a vib while speeding up or slowing down, but once you hit cruise speed, or a constant speed, it would settle out within 30 -45 sec and you had a nice smooth ride until you change speed again.

And oh yeah, you'd hear the BB's falling and hitting the rim when you stopped.

Now, something none of yall have mentioned, is if a 33" tire takes 3 oz to balance at the rim, it will only take 1.5 oz at the tread, since it is 2x as far away.

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See I agree if you have a large size tire like a big swamper it does help, its better then trying to slap on 10-30oz of weight.

i have no idea how fast the balancer goes at my shop. it is ancient and my boss wont by a nice one for whatever reason. Yes maybe my MTRs are gout of round, to be hinest I dont know. I am planning on getting new tires soon anyways. I jus want the tires to balance out becasue I will be doing an lo of huigh way driving over the next month. So aside from BBs and dyna beads what about equal powder? Is it the same theroy? I know my cousin used that on his truck and his tires or just under 33".

Yes, Equal powder is the same theory. In fact, so is water, and beach sand, and golf balls and antifreeze etc.The thing with Equal powder (according to the internet) is that your air source must be completely dry. Using water can cause your steel rims to rust. Anti-freeze coolant should not cause rust (one of the reasons we run it in our vehicles) but if you are aired down and blow a bead on the trail, a fairly common occurrence, your water/antifreeze/Equal powder can and according to Murphy's law will blow/leak out. Then when you air your tire back up you have to find something to put back in the tire for the ride home. Either that or hope there is enough of whatever you used as a balancing agent left in the tire to get the job done.

The original commercial application specific dynamic balancing agent was actually mercury. Semi truck tires were not that well engineered, too large for traditional balancing machines, and used heavy (and dangerous) two piece wheels. There was an attachable ring, hollow like a hula hoop- only smaller, that fit to the outside of the wheel where traditional stationary lead weights would attach. This tube was filled with some mercury and as the wheel pickup up speed, the mercury would be slung around inside the tube, eventually settling across from the imbalances in the wheel/tire. Mercury was chosen for the balancing medium for several reasons. It didn't freeze in non extreme winter weather, it is very dense so a little bit goes a long way, it is slippery so it could easily find its way around the tube, and it caused no wear to the inside of the removable tube.

As for BB's, I have personally used both Airsoft and steel. My experience is that both work equally well. I used the airsoft BB's to balance used 31" BFG AT's on stock steel Jeep wheels. I read online that the clear Airsoft BB's turn into dust, so I used a gray, very dense, airsoft BB. It took a LOT to equal the weight of a couple big lead wheel weights (i don't have a small scale, so thats how I approximated) I read that since the weight is further from the center of the wheel, that less weight is needed to balance the wheel/tire combo, which sounds accurate. i however just dumped in a bunch and hoped for the best, and it worked fine. I just took a LOT of BB's to yield the weight I wanted.
I also used steel BB's to balance my current wheel/tire combo, used and chunked 33x12.50 R15 MT's on rashed 10" wide street locks (an already difficult wheel to balance because weights can only be affixed to one side of the rim) I got on Pirate(sorry ) and searched for a while. I came up with, Use steel BB's, Silver zinc coated ones because the coper will chip off of the other ones and clog your valve stems when you air down, and use one shot glass full for a 35" tire or smaller and two shot glasses full for a 36" or larger tire. (I imagine that once you get past a 40" tire though, you may want to consider adding another shot glass full, just in case.)
I was balancing 33" tires so I needed one shot glass full per tire. I bought a 4000 ct. carton of zinc coated BB's, broke the tire from the wheel, realized I do not actually own any shot glasses, evenly divided the carton of BB's into five little cups, poured one into each of four tires, divided the contents of the fifth cup in half, set on half to the side, divided the other half equally into all four tires, aired up, put my wheels back on my Jeep, test drove it, it worked perfectly, took the other half of the fifth cup of BB's that I had set aside, dug out my ole BB gun, and went plinking. Good day.
The steel BB's with the steel rims sound kind of like rain when I have my doors off, and is barely noticeable when I have my doors on (mostly because of the MT tread) and once I reach 15-20 MPH, all of the BB's have settled to the inside of the tread carcass of the tire. And they stay there until about 5 mph, where they all let go at once and come crashing down inside the tire, effectively shot-peening the inside of my wheel. I don't yet know if they are going to chip the paint on the inside of my wheels or not. Only time will tell.

I use airsoft BBs in all of my cars and trucks and RV and have had no problems at all. I removed all wheel weights to start with. I use the orange .20 size which comes in measured containers. I use 12 oz in my 35s, 10 oz in my RV tires and 6 oz in my passenger car tires. I have had no clogging of valve stems, and no other problems except for the mess they make when you have to dismount the tire to repair a puncture. 12oz of airsoft bbs cost about $5 at Wall mart. I was originally going to use the concentric wheel balance rings that the big rigs use when I came across ceramic BBs used for the same thing. Cal Tuttle told me he used the airsoft BBs so I tried them, and this is the way I have gone ever since.