Confederate flag... what that make you think?

[95' heep]

I got lot of mixed feedback about that Im running a confederate flag license plate on my XJ.

tell me what you really think when you see this..

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/trailtamer/Jeep/DSC01959.jpg

I am in no way a racist. I run it for more of a sign of that I am a "redneck". I respect mexicans, blacks, etc you name it ( I am white btw obviously)

flame away :flame:

[scottmcneal]

I have run that plate for years..I hate everybody..LOL..My motorhomes and cars have always have the stars an bars

[the_weirdo]

The first thing I though was: this guy is a redneck.
The second thing I thought was: what's with the skinny tires?
The third thing I thought was: no rear license plate?

[hiimmred]

Freeeeebird!

[Shorty]

I'll join you on hating everybody.

nothing good can come from a thread about the Confederate flag, so I'll gracefully back out with I hate everybody too.

[WB9YZU]

There's not even a cat on the thing.

Bloody Eco Terrorist KKK Member!

:D

Ron

[Boatwrench]

Looked at the picture and thought...Nice Blazer.

I like it when folks do things like display a confederate flag, wear their pants and show the tops of their boxers, or ball caps on sideways. It is an outward sign. A warning so to speak of the persons attitude, like small men in big diesel trucks. Confederate flag to me shouts 'I'm a Redneck" and there is nothing wrong with that.

Thanks for the warning.

[95' heep]

the XJ's a trail rig only, yes its a trailer queen. the BlaZeR-2 pulls it :)

Hell, I respect myself, so that mean I dress up properly. No showing of boxer, crooked cap hat, or anything as that lol.

[95' heep]

for the skinny tires (34x9.50), I got them for $300 (with rims as well) so why not?

[crimsondragon]

I thought about slapping a confederate flat on it for kicks since I'm asian. But it would only apply as a joke when I'm in or near the Jeep.

[MaxxXJ]

i see a dukes of hazzard lover everytime i see a confederate flag =). but i think people have lost touch as to what that flag was about... kinda like driving a lifted "bro" truck as a status symbol and lifting it as high as they possibly can.

this is thanks to copy and paste...

What do you think of when you see the flag above? What message do you think it sends?
Racism? Slavery? Hatred? White supremacy?
Something worse?
Now, what do you see when you look at the flag? What is actually on the flag?
The color Red? White? Blue? Thirteen stars?
Is that all? See anything else?
Look closer and take some time to actually think about what you are seeing. Examine every detail of the flag and it's design, because the layout of the contents of this flag actually portrays the true message the flag is sending.
And for the record... neither the design nor the content have anything to do with racism, slavery, hatred or white supremacy... or anything worse!
All the COLOR could be removed from this flag, leaving just the outline of the details, and the true message the design is sending could still be determined by anyone with a basic knowledge of history, a little common sense... and a grade-school education.
.
First of all, this flag is NOT the "Confederate Flag." It is the "Battle Flag of Northern Virginia." This design, however, is the one most synonymous with the term, and the one used in various forms on many of the other flags that were flown by the Confederate States. It is also the one most hated by those who are completely and totally ignorant of what it stands for.
So take another look at the flag and answer this very simple question : Do you see a big letter "X" anywhere on the flag? How about if I lay that X down on its side like this? : http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/FLAG/letter-x-horizontal.gif Do you see it now? The X is formed by the big, blue bands which are outlined with white trim.
Now, on this big "X" there are thirteen white stars. See them? Do you know what these thirteen stars represent? They represent the thirteen southern states (http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/-The-Civil-War-united-states-of-america-758086_559_368.gif) of the American union which left the union and formed the Confederate States of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America). Knowing this is the key to understanding the flag's TRUE message.
The thirteen stars on this flag appear to lie on the blue X... but in reality, the X lies on the starts, allowing them to shine through.
Question : Do you remember from your grade-school years how the teachers would sometimes ask you to circle the right answers or picture on a work page, or to put an X on a picture or other item that didn't belong in a group? That is the same concept this flag is designed around; the stars are laid out in the pattern of an X, and the blue bands are put on the thirteen stars to show that the southern states no longer wanted to be a part pf any group which the northern states were a part of. In simpler terms, the message of flag's design is simply this... CROSS US OUT of your Union! The southern states withdrew from the union in a movement called "secession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession)," which led to the Civil War.
That is the only message this flag is sending!
That is all there is to it!
It is just that simple!
If this flag actually represented slavery, hatred, white supremacy, or something worse, as so many biased and uneducated people believe it does, then it's design would reflect that by incorporating images of those whom it stood against, and there would be a big X on their images.
But that is NOT what is on this flag!
And that is NOT what the true message this flag sends!
NEVER has been! NEVER will be! And all that people need to have to be able to see and understand this is a basic knowledge of history, a little common sense... and a grade-school education!

[the_weirdo]

Just bustin' balls.

[jmaxj]

i think history, no matter what anybody says it's not racist it's part of the american history and heritage..............just the rednecks like it :D

[95' heep]

gotcha guys.

What you said MaxxXJ is clear, but in general the confederate flag does have a history that can causes people to give them many different thoughts. Such a obviously example, they fought to keep the black people to the SLAVERY.

[Boatwrench]

MaxxJ: That's a reach! I can imagine some wealthy Richmond family sat around in the parlor discussing the design of the flag back in 1861 and said "Yeah, That's the ticket"

I can't come up with 13 southern states?

VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, LA, MS, TX, KY, AR & ??

What two am I missing? Missouri was a compromise state and I don't believe Tennesse ever left the Union.

[MaxxXJ]

lol i just copy and posted it... dont blame me for the imperfections =)

heres another copy and paste to answer your question ;)
The 11 states of the ORIGINAL Confederacy were Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia.

Answer: Alabama, North and South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Virginia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, and Texas.

Kentucky and Missouri were both considered to be in the Confederacy as well. These states didn't have "governments in exile" as some put it, but rather had dual governments in each states. Just wanted to correct the language usage on the previous answer. Maryland and Delaware and West Virginia though border states had units or civilians to serve the confederacy.

[WrenchMonkey]

I see the stars-n-bars and it makes me think of people that write sentences like "What that make you think."

Biased and prejudicial, sure, but there it is.

Robert

[ECKSJAY]

I see the stars-n-bars and it makes me think of people that write sentences like "What that make you think."

Biased and prejudicial, sure, but there it is.

Robert

Came here to post this.

Leaving satisfied.

[cracked-butt]

i see a redneck everytime i see the confederate flag.

now that being said, i've lived in the "back woods" of pennsylvania & now in "the-middle-of-no-where" tennessee, i still fly the (regular) American flag. havent realy been out lookin for a rebel flag yet. just figured that by the time i'm ready to paint the jeep i'll just paint one on.



and for all those out there that think it stands for anything other than the lower "non-union" states.... they all can leave MY country!!!
and no i'm not predudice...... i hate everyone too!




likek the "skinny" tires too. they work better than the "fat" tires in most things. but fat tires are nices in the mud :D

[rocknxj]

My first thoughts upon seeing that flag were of the 8 years I spent in the south and how distant I felt from many of the people that flew those colors. I am about as far as I can be culturally from the south so I have a difficult time understanding the flag's meaning and history. It is not that I do not have the mental capacity, but that I do not have the desire to, mostly because of the negative experiences I had there during my formative years. A kid from the west can only be beaten so many times by rebel flag sporting hicks before prejudices are formed. I suppose I look on that image with disdain and a bit of remorse.

[Boatwrench]

West Virginia became a state in 1863 joining the north.

[G.P_XJ]

... I run it for more of a sign of that I am a "redneck". . .

Thats what i think of when i see it. (this coming from another "redneck" :wave:)

[tbones88XJ]

My Battle Flag represents my heritage not hate. Tennessee did leave the union but not by choice of the people. I was born in Richmond and raised in Tennessee and The Civil War is a hobby of mine and I have done a lot of research on it. I know people are going to disagree with this, but If you truely do the research on the war you will find that it wasn't fought over slavery, that was just a by product of the outcome. :us:

[GSequoia]

West Virginia became a state in 1863 joining the north.

Yup. It split off from Virginia.

Irony is all the "rebel flags" you see displayed here in WV (be they license plates, stickers, flags, whatever).

[95' heep]

i even seen that canadians fly the rebel flags!! so they're not limited to the United States rednecks :D

also yeah i learned that in my history class that the south dont want to end the slavery because if it ends the south's productivity will decrease due to no slavery to work on the field, the plantation owner will now need to pay the worker (less worker and less hours per worker) as slavery isnt allowed.

[srmitchell]

Many people see it as a symbol of hate. (Because of the tie it has with the confederacy.)

I don't see the point of it really. (You can fly what ever you want, don't flame me!)

The american flag is the only one I care for, because we are the UNITED states right?

[nates94xj]

Since you asked, I see that and I think, "Racist, undereducated, white trash." I'm also rather embarrassed to see it on an XJ, since I drive an XJ.

It's the battle flag and symbol of a country that fought to preserve slavery, among other things. What would you think if you saw someone driving a car with the Nazi battle flag on it? There has to be another way to show that you're proud of being a Southerner, please find it.

[nates94xj]

Since you asked, I see that and I think, "Racist, undereducated, white trash." I'm also rather embarrassed to see it on an XJ, since I drive an XJ.

It's the battle flag and symbol of a country that fought to preserve slavery, among other things. What would you think if you saw someone driving a car with the Nazi battle flag on it? There has to be another way to show that you're proud of being a Southerner, please find it.

[95' heep]

a nazi sign will make me to think "White Power" which I actually dont like..

I am wanting to find either FOURWHEELER or Peterson's 4wheeler plate to replace it though.

[srmitchell]

Since you asked, I see that and I think, "Racist, undereducated, white trash." I'm also rather embarrassed to see it on an XJ, since I drive an XJ.

It's the battle flag and symbol of a country that fought to preserve slavery, among other things. What would you think if you saw someone driving a car with the Nazi battle flag on it? There has to be another way to show that you're proud of being a Southerner, please find it.

This.

[XJ 4-play]

Is there really a difference between the reputation of the Rebel flag and the Swastika.

Both have come to signify something they do not stand for through direct affiliation with certain trials in the past.

That nazi flag is pretty much in the same boat. An ancient symbol used by numerous civilizations that was later tarnished by a brainwashed germany. The swastika or whatever name you give it was used by indians, buddhists, native americans, egyptians and many others long before nazi's.

So go ahead put a rainbow, a swastika, or a rebel flag. All symbols with various meanings. You're pretty much just asking for attention.

People are gonna think what they want, no matter what symbol or explanation you have.

[XJ 4-play]

double posted for some reason!

[xr8d_xj]

It's a flag... it means different things to different people as evidence by some of the comments. I once attended a work related "school" where a US flag was burned in front of us. As I stood helpless to stop it, I struggled inside to figure out how I felt about seeing the flag I pledge allegiance to be desecrated less than twenty feet away from me. Days later when "the answer" was revealed to us it became clear. It's a symbol, keep what it means inside you and you'll be ok. Only a few months later, I was in another country watching very large crowds burn US flags again within "reach" of my vantage point. It didn't really bother me, because I knew their acts in no way posed a threat to my nation.

I have used this ideology with Muslim friends of mine when they hear of Westerners burning their nation's flag or event the Koran. They understand that though the actions of others may be offensive they aren't truly undermining their belief or cause.

I guess I'm saying I've learned to not let other groups "symbols" get under my skin. That's why I'm able to be approached by a stinky-kid on the street wearing a Greenpeace t-shirt and not stab him in the face. BTW... I'm an equal opportunity hater. Everyone gets the same helping of hate!

[tharlanjr]

Wow, comparing a Swastika to a Confederate flag...

Thats a new one.


Last time I checked, the Confederate flag never stood for killing millions of innocent people

Thats a big difference and offensive to those whom fly the confederate flag and have family that fought the Nazi's...

[Jwood621]

I fly the flag out of respect for my family members who fought and died standing up for what they believed in and no, they didn't own any slaves.

Think of me what you will, but I fly the colors with pride.

[hubs97xj]

I think of the comedian who said the Mexicans and Secessionists should play a soccer tournament- the winner gets to fly their flag. The loser doesn't.

[kastein]

I go "man that guy must be a redneck, I wonder if he has any teeth"

I don't hate everybody, only people who screw stuff up for other people or otherwise cause trouble. That means lazy bastards leeching off welfare (whatever color they are, around here it's pretty evenly split as far as I know), car thieves, violent criminals, etc.

The way I see it, you can be as annoying and dumb and horrible as you want, as long as you leave a way for me and everyone else to ignore it. Live and let live.

[Sherman_thetank]

Im a redneck, and i have 2 Confederate flags hanging in my house, however i choose to not put them on my vehicle, because of exactly what this is talking about. Many people find it offending, but that just shows you how many uneducated people there are in this country.
And comparing the Swastika to a Confederate flag, see previous sentence.

[Darky]

The Confederacy wanted to keep slavery. Sure, it had economic reasons, but behind those were either hatred or at the least, disdain for another race simply because of their color and customs. I fully agree that losing slavery was bad for the South, but only someone who either hates blacks or sees them as inferior beings would knowingly force them to labor in the fields with minimal nutrition, minimal living quarters, and getting driven by the whip. There were millions of innocents who lost their lives as a result of slavery either dying on the voyage over, being beaten to death or hung for doing something "wrong", worked to death, etc. I can see a comparison between the swastika and the confederate flag.

Before calling people uneducated because they don't like what is essentially the symbol of a rebel group bent on maintaining their right to slavery, do some research on what actually happened as a result of slavery. Do some research on the hatred that persisted towards blacks in the South for generations afterwards.

I think if you wanna be a redneck, that's fine. But try finding a different symbol for your redneckitude. Trying to rationalize this one doesn't work.

[billyjp2]

I've had it on several of my cars even though i have lived in Mass my whole life. i had 2 relatives fight for the confederacy and my grandfather was born in raised in Alabama. I sport it as a sign of respect for him.

[ECKSJAY]

Used to rock this on my first XJ when I lived in TX. :D

http://www.idiot-ink.com/youlost.jpg

[SleeperXJ]

this is thanks to copy and paste...

What do you think of when you see the flag above? What message do you think it sends?


What is the source of this information?
Bro, as far as your jeep, it looks good. I wouldn't change it. I gota look for those tires for the wifes TJ :eyes:

[96sport]

Wow, comparing a Swastika to a Confederate flag...

Thats a new one.


Last time I checked, the Confederate flag never stood for killing millions of innocent people
...

No, instead it stood for keeping people in slavery, telling them when they could eat, sleep, $hit, and then when you didn't obey your plantation master, you were beat, raped, or murdered.

So I fail to see the difference between the 2 symbols, they both stand for "hate/racism" in 2009 and will never change.

[96sport]

Im a redneck, and i have 2 Confederate flags hanging in my house, however i choose to not put them on my vehicle, because of exactly what this is talking about. Many people find it offending, but that just shows you how many uneducated people there are in this country.
And comparing the Swastika to a Confederate flag, see previous sentence.


Actually it shows just how much education people do have. They all know that the confederate flag does not stand for the same thing now as it did then.

[karstic]

I fly the flag out of respect for my family members who fought and died standing up for what they believed in and no, they didn't own any slaves.

Think of me what you will, but I fly the colors with pride.

So based upon that I should have no problems displaying the Hackenkreuz or Eisene Kreuz?

[tharlanjr]

No, instead it stood for keeping people in slavery, telling them when they could eat, sleep, $hit, and then when you didn't obey your plantation master, you were beat, raped, or murdered.

So I fail to see the difference between the 2 symbols, they both stand for "hate/racism" in 2009 and will never change.

Not all slaves were treated that way, and some were slaves by choice because it got them out of their shithole country into America.


Sure slaves got treated bad, but America/ the South wasn't the first place to have slaves. African's were trading slaves long before America was around...

[scottmcneal]

Not all slaves were treated that way, and some were slaves by choice because it got them out of their shithole country into America.


Sure slaves got treated bad, but America/ the South wasn't the first place to have slaves. African's were trading slaves long before America was around...


:gag:.... Truth is bad, very bad..

[96sport]

Not all slaves were treated that way, and some were slaves by choice because it got them out of their shithole country into America.


Sure slaves got treated bad, but America/ the South wasn't the first place to have slaves. African's were trading slaves long before America was around...

While they all may not have been treated that way, I would have to say that a lot of them were because there had to be a reason why the "Undergound Railroad" was created. I still think that you can put the Swastika and Confederate Flag on the same level because now all they stand for is "Hate" in our society.

[scottmcneal]

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

I BING it

[96sport]

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

I BING it


Yup and I think that it's pathetic how a piece of crap person can turn such a positive symbol into a negative one

[theNAST1EST]

some were slaves by choice because it got them out of their shithole country into America.


You're kidding, right?

[95' heep]

Ya know that our First President of the United State of America, Washington had a slave with him all of time and he was treated very well, more of a friend actually. unfortunately not all slaves was treated like that way.

[Doose-doe]

I don't look at the confederate flag as racist. I have one on my visor in my xj. I also stand I hate everyone I'm not racist. My ex didnt agree with the flag after we broke up she dated a black guy, moved back here and saw the flag... wont talk to me anymore lol

[ECKSJAY]

Ya know that our First President of the United State of America, Washington had a slave with him all of time and he was treated very well, more of a friend actually. unfortunately not all slaves was treated like that way.

People also like to ignore the fact that tribes in Africa sold other tribes to slave traders. ;) I'm not condoning slavery, just pointing out that it wasn't always a one-way street.

[xcm]

the nazi flag is kinda a bit much, allthough you could debate what this says about jesse james: http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5736/16600049.th.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/16600049.jpg/)

closet nazi? or a german proud of his past? he even uses a picture of rommel as his avatar on RDC.


i say rock it, it's your jeep, you might get weird looks but XXXX it. as long as its not a troll.

[H8PVMT]

Wow, comparing a Swastika to a Confederate flag...

Thats a new one.


Last time I checked, the Confederate flag never stood for killing millions of innocent people

Thats a big difference and offensive to those whom fly the confederate flag and have family that fought the Nazi's...

618k died in relation to the confederate flag, worst war in our history, not quite a million or so but we were the only major fighters....(i know, English, French and native Americans fought too) Last time I put thought into it, almost everyone that fights the wars are innocent, it's the handful of leaders that send them to war at fault. The swastika was used to represent the four seasons by a dozen cultures, they now no longer use it because of it's new meaning. I feel the same way about the confederate flag, people use it for the shock value, not it's true nature

[REVROK]

Not all slaves were treated that way, and some were slaves by choice because it got them out of their shithole country into America.


Sure slaves got treated bad, but America/ the South wasn't the first place to have slaves. African's were trading slaves long before America was around...

Around 33% of the slaves died on the ships... no one chose slavery. The ships decks were literally painted with blood. Try watching the movie "Amazing Grace" or "Amistad," if anyone needs a better understanding of slavery. The North African Arabs have always been the primary slave traders. They supplied most of the slaves to the English slavers and still do it in places like Sudan, though it is becoming less common at last and most slavery is now sex slave trafficking (slavery is nearly as common as ever).

I would never fly that flag.

[FlexdXJ]

i see a redneck everytime i see the confederate flag.


You don't see me with a Confederate Flag and I am pretty damn redneck! :D


I am not saying all people who own confederate flag "memorabilia" are Ignorant racist morons but all the people with them around here are! :dunno: This is in no way directed toward you 95' Heep I am not going to judge you for it!


You can see these morons from a mile away. Its always a Big ass ford with a huge body lift(and stacks if its a diesel) Wearing a dirty ass hat with the bill pretty much folded in half with a can of chew in their pocket!

[Matthew Currie]

Late to the party, and don't want to get embroiled in much of this, but in answer to the original post question, sorry to say that whenever I see a confederate flag flown by a northerner, I see more than "redneck."

If you're from the south, where your great grandpa may well have worn gray, you can get away with "it's heritage," but that's a hard argument to carry in Chicago.

[WrenchMonkey]

618k died in relation to the confederate flag, worst war in our history...

By that logic, the same 618k died "in relation" to the US flag, plus the millions in wars before and after.

The Nazis actually rounded up civilians and exterminated them.

The Nazi Swastika is a whole different class than the Confederate flag. The two should not be compared.


All of which is irrelevant, because nobody really flies it to "celebrate their heritage."

They like it because it pisses people off, and makes em feel like badasses.

I know, I had one on my old Mopar in high school. Then I grew up a little.

Robert

[FlexdXJ]

They like it because it pisses people off, and makes em feel like badasses.




Haha, that reminds me of a guy I know who pissed a lot of people off around here. Also, I know a Hells Angel who has a Swastika tatooed on his arm and has a Mixed Granddaughter......................Thats Irony! :roflmao:

[Sherman_thetank]

By that logic, the same 618k died "in relation" to the US flag, plus the millions in wars before and after.

The Nazis actually rounded up civilians and exterminated them.

The Nazi Swastika is a whole different class than the Confederate flag. The two should not be compared.


All of which is irrelevant, because nobody really flies it to "celebrate their heritage."

They like it because it pisses people off, and makes em feel like badasses.

I know, I had one on my old Mopar in high school. Then I grew up a little.

Robert
Exactly, If your gonna compare those two your not too bright. If you disagree, drive your jeep with a confederate flag on it for a week, then put a Swastika on it, and i bet you get slightly different looks,

Actually it shows just how much education people do have. They all know that the confederate flag does not stand for the same thing now as it did then.
Your right it doesnt, it can stand for one of two things, your heritage, or you being a redneck, yes some pieces of crap still fly it to symbolize racism, but not anyone on this board.

[Matthew Currie]

Your right it doesnt, it can stand for one of two things, your heritage, or you being a redneck, yes some pieces of crap still fly it to symbolize racism, but not anyone on this board.The problem here is that you've named three things it can stand for. Unfortunately, one of those three is common enough, and nasty enough, to make the symbol a poor choice for non-political, non-racist expression. Even if your motives are good, it can be pretty well guaranteed that many people will misunderstand you, and that raises the question of why one would wish to invite that kind of misunderstanding.

[Sherman_thetank]

The problem here is that you've named three things it can stand for. Unfortunately, one of those three is common enough, and nasty enough, to make the symbol a poor choice for non-political, non-racist expression. Even if your motives are good, it can be pretty well guaranteed that many people will misunderstand you, and that raises the question of why one would wish to invite that kind of misunderstanding.
So i cant count :dunce:
And i do agree with that some will take it like that, which is why you will never find one on my jeep, but i think most would not.

[RedHeep]

It doesn't matter what it means, it matters what it symbolizes.

Anyone who's read a book can tell you that it's a flag flown by a group of states fighting for financial freedom from the US. No more, no less.

Unfortunately, in pursuit of that financial freedom, those states condoned a practice that was no longer acceptable. The "ownership" of another human being was wrong then just as it is now. In order for the south to farm the millions of acres of crops to continue their livelihood, they simply couldn't afford to pay their workers.

That notwithstanding, I can tell you from the bottom of my heart that every time I see a representation of that flag, whether it's on a t-shirt, a license plate or a flagpole, I feel insulted. Not because someone is proud of being southern (and I'm from the north) or because it stands for slavery or the persecution of black americans (because it doesn't, directly), but because it represents a group of people who CHOSE not to be part of my country anymore.

I stand in the front of a lot of people who would die for the american flag. Seeing someone flying a symbol of people who hated my flag really bothers me. It makes me not want to fight for you. Why can't you put an american flag on your jeep? Maybe if we were all trying to be better americans and not little individual groups of people inside america, we'd be much better off.

[avnsteve]

.
It is the "Battle Flag of Northern Virginia." They represent the thirteen southern states (http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/-The-Civil-War-united-states-of-america-758086_559_368.gif) of the American union which left the union and formed the Confederate States of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America).
the southern states no longer wanted to be a part pf any group which the northern states were a part of. CROSS US OUT of your Union!

In light of what our illustrious government is doing these days, it's a wonder there isn't more talk of rebellion and secession. It's about time we did something about it. I for one am no lemming

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/dre1187l.jpg

[Texas Twitch]

I will freely admit i didn't read through all 5 pages, mainly because i haven't had quite enough adderall and coffee to cross out the egg nog and bloody marys from this morning.

Being in Texas my entire life, I think it's safe to say i see my fair share of racism and prejudice on a daily basis, and I will admit that I am not always on the innocent end of this. But when i see a "Rebel" flag on a car or truck, the thought "racist" does not even ENTER my mind. I think redneck, good ol' boy, or something along those lines. But, as with everything else in this world that certain members of certain groups/races/ethnicities might pull the race card on, it all lies on the perception of the individual viewing the rebel flag.

As my hippy college roommate always told me, "Reality is based on perception."
If YOU don't see a problem with it, then there isn't. If someone else DOES see a problem with it, then so be it. If they call you out on it, say your peace and leave it alone.

Everything you do on a daily basis is going to piss SOMEONE off. Unfortunately, that's the world we live in. I have seen people get more pissed off at obama/mccain/palin/bush/clinton/etc....stickers than i have ever seen be offended by a rebel flag. I've also seen more people make a big stink over Christmas and all its accoutrement i.e. nativity scene, CHRISTMAS (not holiday) trees, crosses, etc. than i have seen over-exaggerate the real meaning of a rebel flag.

Bottom line, to me it means redneck, and PROBABLY pretty ignorant. (please take note of the emphasis i put on "probably") But then again, I'm a Protestant Irish/German bred Texan. Someone with more ethnic descent might think differently. But once again, that brings us back to the perception and reality theory.

/rant off.

[Mudderoy]

I like the flag. If I displayed it I would hope people would judge me on my actions and not what flag I was displaying. I was thinking about getting one of those "Don't Tread On Me" flags. It has a rattle snake on a yellow flag. Hmmm I guess I might offend PETA though. I guess you can't do anything these days without offending someone.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/images/smilies/pirateflag.gif

[XJ 4-play]

I guess it came off wrong. I thought i explained it well but i forgot about attention spans. I compared the way they are perceived to the original meaning of the symbols. not rednecks to nazis. how may ancient symbols mean to "live long and prosper"

[cracked-butt]

i even seen that canadians fly the rebel flags!! so they're not limited to the United States rednecks :D

also yeah i learned that in my history class that the south dont want to end the slavery because if it ends the south's productivity will decrease due to no slavery to work on the field, the plantation owner will now need to pay the worker (less worker and less hours per worker) as slavery isnt allowed.


that's why in the south they hire illegal immigrants before they will AMERICANS... they can pay them less!

[Matthew Currie]

As a Yankee, I have no issue of southern heritage, and don't really want to identify myself as a redneck, but I have no quarrel with people who wish to do so, though I would rather for myself to be identified, as our old friend Eagle did, as a "swamp yankee." The problem, as I see it, is that like it or not, enough people fly the Confederate flag as a symbol of bigotry to incite some doubt in people's minds as to what is intended whenever it's seen. It's not as compromised as the swastika, by a huge margin, but it is sufficiently ambiguous that people who fly it ought to be prepared for some controversy. I would not recommend flying it to a northerner unless you have a proactive interest in rehabilitating the symbol or explaining your point of view. Because, like it or not, people will be inclined to misread your message. If all you want to do is make a statement about being a redneck, you'd do better to get a decal that says "redneck," and save yourself some hassle.

Little anecdote. I was at a gas station in PA last month, and there was a car plastered with confederate and U.S. flags, and various other stickers. Another person at the station went out of his way to make a disparaging remark about the confederate flags, until I pointed out to him the very prominent stickers that identified the owner as a Civil War buff, and more specifically as a "UNION RE-ENACTOR." Some people will ALWAYS misread the stars and bars.

[Boatwrench]

I don't like :piratefla either.

[tbburg]

the nazi flag is kinda a bit much, allthough you could debate what this says about jesse james: http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5736/16600049.th.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/16600049.jpg/)

closet nazi? or a german proud of his past? he even uses a picture of rommel as his avatar on RDC.Just to clarify, that's not a Nazi flag, or a swastika. Look close, it's the "Iron Cross". This might look familiar. It sits on top of the Brandenburg gate.
http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh338/tbburg/Montana%20Fab/related%20photo%20thread/Brandenburg_Quadriga_Night.jpg?t=1261792341

( I pretty much think JJ is an idiot, regardless of what's painted on the side of his truck. )

As for rebel flag stickers, plates, window covers, etc., I throw them in the same category as the chrome "naked chick" silhouettes, and "truck nutz" ie: idiots.

[hubs97xj]

Iron Cross- not a Nazi party symbol. Used by the Wehrmacht, later the German Army, and I think it has Prussian origins. Not Hitlerific. Popular with the bike crowd, which I don't really understand. I'd have figured the Bimmer crowd would have adopted it before the HD types.

[karstic]

Iron Cross- not a Nazi party symbol. Used by the Wehrmacht, later the German Army, and I think it has Prussian origins. Not Hitlerific. Popular with the bike crowd, which I don't really understand. I'd have figured the Bimmer crowd would have adopted it before the HD types.

Not, the Bayers and the Preissen mix like oil and water. Kinda Yankees and Southerners.

[fscrig75]

You can dress up in combat boots, jeans, red suspenders and a white t-shirt, it doesn't mean you're a skin head but first impressions are a mofo.

[tharlanjr]

You can dress up in combat boots, jeans, red suspenders and a white t-shirt, it doesn't mean you're a skin head but first impressions are a mofo.

Or you can be a skinhead and just not be a rascist one...


SHARP...

[xcm]

Just to clarify, that's not a Nazi flag, or a swastika. Look close, it's the "Iron Cross". This might look familiar. It sits on top of the Brandenburg gate.

oh! its not? ;;facepalm;;
its still, quite nazi era german. this thread isnt about what things ARE, its what they seem.

[fscrig75]

Or you can be a skinhead and just not be a rascist one...


SHARP...


Good point, its all about the impressions you leave on other people.

[97GOVXJ]

I personally am sick and tired of all this politically correct bs. This country is turning into a bunch of sue-happy candy-asses. Put your big girl panties on and deal with it. As far as your flag goes, I see it as a rebel flag and nothing else. I've been know to sport one myself from time to time. Fly what you want, just be willing to back it up.

[Rod Knee]

There are some very well thought out and written posts by Mathew Currie and Darky and a few others which I fully agree. That said, it was the stars and strips that was (and to some extent still is) the symbol of subjegation to the Lakota and the Apache. From a contemporary standpoint, however, its only the stars and bars that generally evokes an insensitivity to the oppressed, rightly or wrongly.

I only count 11 Confederate states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America

[IslanderOffRoad]

I like the flag. If I displayed it I would hope people would judge me on my actions and not what flag I was displaying. I was thinking about getting one of those "Don't Tread On Me" flags. It has a rattle snake on a yellow flag. Hmmm I guess I might offend PETA though. I guess you can't do anything these days without offending someone.

:piratefla

I think Peta would like the Gadsen Flag. Its reminding people not to step on snakes. :D

I'd only run the flag on my car if I owned a 69 Dodge Charger in orange.

I'm with the people who see it and think "here's some moron who thinks he's a badass and wants to act like he DGAF's about offending people"

[avnsteve]

that's why in the south they hire illegal immigrants before they will AMERICANS... they can pay them less!

broad generalizations like that merely prove the ignorance rampant in this country. being a "southerner" I can plainly say that we are as opposed to the illegal immigrants as you or anyone else is.

...your ignorance is showing!

[GunshowfoshoW]

what i think of: trash

[wolfpackjeeper]

that's why in the south they hire illegal immigrants before they will AMERICANS... they can pay them less!

do you think at all, or do you just type whatever comes to mind?

[Darky]

I like the flag. If I displayed it I would hope people would judge me on my actions and not what flag I was displaying.
What flag you choose to display is an action you have taken. The flag didn't just appear, right?

[Darky]

Exactly, If your gonna compare those two your not too bright. If you disagree, drive your jeep with a confederate flag on it for a week, then put a Swastika on it, and i bet you get slightly different looks,
teehee. ;)

[cracked-butt]

broad generalizations like that merely prove the ignorance rampant in this country. being a "southerner" I can plainly say that we are as opposed to the illegal immigrants as you or anyone else is.

...your ignorance is showing!


ok so i was goin back a decade or so, does not show that i am ignorant. i just don't keep up with all of the poitical B.S. in this country, (my personal belief is it is a waste of time). if you want to se a crook, just look in any poloticians office.

and yes, i know that the economy is the reason for "no jobs" everywhere, not illegal imigrans.

as for flyin a specific flag, i fly the AMERICAN flag & the P.O.W./M.I.A flag.
if anyone is offended by those two flags.... tuff!

as for the nazi swastica, i can respect it for what i TRUELY stook for (back then anyways), hitler used it as the symbol of power... but it turned into a symbol of hatered.

not to mention i have german in my blood, & my grandfather fought the nazi's in WW II.
he about b**ch slapped his own son for buyin a VW back in the 70's! lol.
now tell me that isn't a powerful thing!


so yes both the "rebel" flag & the "nazi" flag stir emotions in people, it is their own learning that makes them believe what they want about any flag or symbol.

:soapbox:over, ty & happy holidays!!!! :D

[DrexelSpivey]

You lost. Now get off yer sister.

[avnsteve]

not to mention i have german in my blood, & my grandfather fought the nazi's in WW II.
he about b**ch slapped his own son for buyin a VW back in the 70's! lol.
now tell me that isn't a powerful thing!



interesting you mention that, my grandfather was a merchant marine, he refused to join the Nazi party or military, after the war, he became a park ranger for the woodlands surrounding castle Braunfels...

explains my proclivity for camping and my intolerance for hatred

[wolfpackjeeper]

cracked butt, once again; do you re-read anything you type before you post at all?

[msrorysddad]

The true issue is certain images stir certain feelings, right, wrong, or indifferent.
I was raised in the south, and am covered in tattoos, I've worked in every state that touches in our wonderful country. I've caught flack because of my tats, my bald head, and my appearance. I brought those reactions upon myself. I chose to look the way I do, and I can deal with the b.s.
That said, the simple fact that you asked the opinion of others, would point to the fact that you also understand the strong emotions stirred by the flag in question.
If you want to staple that flag or any other to your forehead is your business, However, you cannot do something that you know will draw a reaction from others without being ready to catch the heat.
Right, or wrong, you are putting yourself in a position of defense.
I am a "red neck" a man whom has earned a living working in the sun, and been marked by it's lasting effects. I believe in certain things, and treat others as I wish to be treated.
I can point out other ways of displaying my "red neck" other than a symbol found offensive by some. I say find another way to proclaim your "red neck" status, hell, I'll send you some stickers, that are way more red neck than that flag.

[tbburg]

Wasn't the original term "red neck" used to describe West Virginia or Pennsylvania(can't remember which) coal miners who were trying to organize (unionize) against the wishes of their employers. 'Called red-necks because they wore red handkerchiefs around their collars as a uniform to identify each other?

[hubs97xj]

Yeah, pretty much. I got a long and boring lecture on that once after calling a southerner a redneck. Apparently they (the miners' descendants) don't appreciate the comparison to our separatist brethren down yonder.

[WrenchMonkey]

Wasn't the original term "red neck" used ... because they wore red handkerchiefs around their collars as a uniform to identify each other?

Won't say you're wrong, but I always understood it to refer to a guy blue-collar enough to work outside in the sun all day, but too conservative to go shirtless.

White chest, white back, red neck.

Robert

<Edit> According to wiki (so it must be true) "redneck" was used to describe WV coal miners and their red bandannas in 1921. It was used to describe sunburned field workes as early as 1830.