AdFab TOTM Ideas: post here

[Matt S.]

Hey guys, if this takes off like it should... this will be a sticky relatively soon.

Give me ideas for TOTM so I can collect data and give you detailed articles every month. Remember this is ADVANCED FABRICATION and the topics need to reflect this.

I chose to do weight loss for the first on because I will be going very heavily into mine, and plan on showing specific weights of parts as they come off. I do hope that all of these TOTM's will become "our" baby and help to give way to the next hardcore wheelers and fabricators.

A few ideas I have tossed around.

Tube Bending 101 : NAXJA Style
Suspension Building 101 : NAXJA Style
Flat Belly Tech/ Frame Plating
Basic and Advanced Cage work
Electric Basics and neat tricks and mods


Well? What do you all think?

Matt

[Menzenski]

Maybe this isn't 'advanced' enough, but I would be very interested in a topic on fabricating in general. It could be geared towards those who want to start welding and building their own parts rather than bolt them on.

Suspension Building 101 : NAXJA Style
An XJ/MJ-specific look at suspensions would be really neat, especially if it included a discussion of suspension theory.

[shortxjdoug]

An XJ/MJ-specific look at suspensions would be really neat, especially if it included a discussion of suspension theory.

ya a suspension theory discussion would be nice, i am more interested in the math behind creating a link design the works instead of just eyeballed and put together willy nilly. i know there is math involved in the theory i just don't knw where it is applied and for what purpose

[XJ_ranger]

ya a suspension theory discussion would be nice, i am more interested in the math behind creating a link design the works instead of just eyeballed and put together willy nilly. i know there is math involved in the theory i just don't knw where it is applied and for what purpose

agreed, a definition of all the terms, what they mean, how to calculate them, how to change the characteristics of them and all that would be really cool...

start by defining:
anti-squat
roll axis
instant center
roll center

link to Triaged's calculators and all that...


on a completely other subject -
Id love to learn how to properly weld things to axles without warping the 1/2 thick axle tubes... :D

[DirtyMJ]

Alternative fuels, or alternative engines.



You also need a good one on drivetran swaps downstream of the engine (SM465's, NP435s, NV4500, NP203's, 5's, D300's, D20's, etc etc).

[Ramsey]

agreed, a definition of all the terms, what they mean, how to calculate them, how to change the characteristics of them and all that would be really cool...

start by defining:
anti-squat
roll axis
instant center
roll center

link to Triaged's calculators and all that...


on a completely other subject -
Id love to learn how to properly weld things to axles without warping the 1/2 thick axle tubes... :D
sounds good because i know none of that crap

[xjj33p3r]

How about steering tech? A lot of jeepers are unaware of the problems that can arise from using the stock steering at tall heights. Also, the different types of steering setups: inverted y, and inverted t. Hi-steer, WJ knuckles, etc. Could be a nice long topic that covers many different applications.

[DirtyMJ]

Oh, an exo/endo cage tech thingo would be good.

[Brady's XJ]

Cage buildup would be awesome, done by stages maybe. A Stage I to cover passenger area, Stage II moving to the rear and added strengthening, Stage III moving towards back-halving, and Stage IV towards a full-on buggy (or something like that). Just a way to make sure my first basic cage work doesn't need to be redone a year from now when I'm getting more advanced and losing more sheetmetal.

[ponyracer1]

ya a suspension theory discussion would be nice, i am more interested in the math behind creating a link design the works instead of just eyeballed and put together willy nilly. i know there is math involved in the theory i just don't knw where it is applied and for what purpose


How about a more general suspension thread, maybe like a right up on building a true UFO 3link. Or "this is my radius arm 3link, these are the measurements, this is how it works on/off road".

I'm getting ready to do a radius 3link in a couple of weeks, just waiting for the JJ to turn up. I'll take plenty of pics and keep the measurements if anyone wants them.

I'm not saying do a step by step instruction manual for someone, just give general info/dimensions that could be used as a starting point.

[fender]

How about a more general suspension thread, maybe like a right up on building a true UFO 3link. Or "this is my radius arm 3link, these are the measurements, this is how it works on/off road".

I'm getting ready to do a radius 3link in a couple of weeks, just waiting for the JJ to turn up. I'll take plenty of pics and keep the measurements if anyone wants them.

I'm not saying do a step by step instruction manual for someone, just give general info/dimensions that could be used as a starting point.
X2 I would like to see this also.

[Menzenski]

How about a more general suspension thread, maybe like a right up on building a true UFO 3link. Or "this is my radius arm 3link, these are the measurements, this is how it works on/off road".

I'm getting ready to do a radius 3link in a couple of weeks, just waiting for the JJ to turn up. I'll take plenty of pics and keep the measurements if anyone wants them.

I'm not saying do a step by step instruction manual for someone, just give general info/dimensions that could be used as a starting point.
If there were photos of different designs, that would be a huge help. It'd be real nice to have a few good photos of a 4-link setup, a three-link setup, a radius arm set up, et c. just to give noobs like me an idea of what's out there.

[hadfield4wd]

Cage buildup would be awesome, done by stages maybe. A Stage I to cover passenger area, Stage II moving to the rear and added strengthening, Stage III moving towards back-halving, and Stage IV towards a full-on buggy (or something like that). Just a way to make sure my first basic cage work doesn't need to be redone a year from now when I'm getting more advanced and losing more sheetmetal.

I was goning to ask some questions about a cage, but since it will most likely be next winter I will wait with great anticipation for the thread on that. By the way mine is a 2 door, I want to keep a fully functional back seat (as I have 3 kids). Should be interesting. I look forward to it.

Matt

[GSequoia]

I second steering tech.

Noting the various designs with pros and cons. Various linkages with pros and cons, and of course getting into hydro assist and full hydro (while dispelling myths about them...)


PS- A topic on the best blinker fluid would be cool too.

[XJ_ranger]

agreed, a definition of all the terms, what they mean, how to calculate them, how to change the characteristics of them and all that would be really cool...

start by defining:
anti-squat
roll axis
instant center
roll center

link to Triaged's calculators and all that...


on a completely other subject -
Id love to learn how to properly weld things to axles without warping the 1/2 thick axle tubes... :D
add to this:
spring rate - what does it mean from an automotive standpoint? what does it mean from a flex stand point? a handling standpoint? what are target numbers for our rigs, and how do you get thoes numbers? are they weight dependant? do the same spring rate rules apply for coils, coil overs, air shocks, leaf springs? what if you are mounting your suspention to your control arms, how does the spring rate need to change? Does a higher spring rate mean you can carry more gear?

Progressive rate - do we need this? how many progressions should we have (coilovers), is exponential progression better (airshocks), are progressive rate coils worth the $$$, what does progressive rate really do for you (other than make it harder to push the spring as you get it closer to compression)? Does it have any negatives? can you come up with an rely on an average rate to design your suspention around? does this cause any weird phenomina?

Dampening / rebound - what do the valving numbers on shocks mean? what is right for our rigs? how do you decide what numbers to order or build your shocks / air-shocks / coilovers to be? what is the theory behind the monotube / twin tube, and what is better for crawling / going fast? what are the characteristics that can be expected with more compression valving than reboubound valving and vice versa? what do we need in a shock to keep our rigs from bouncing all over the trail?

do different suspention styles require different characteristics of the above three terms? How? Why? If your rig suddenly looses 1000lbs, will your suspention have issues if you built it around a full bodied rig? What if your making a tube chassis and shooting for less than 500lbs sprung weight (with driver) and less than 175lbs un-sprung? how does all this apply to extreme lightweight situations? What about Mogtard - what should he design with his 5000lb chassis, and 4000 lb axles?

[RESET]

How 'bout some advanced t-case tech such as doublers and the like.

[GSequoia]

Do enough XJ types do doublers?

Aside from one guy with a Klune (kinda a 1.5'er ;) ) I don't know anybody who doubles up.

[Gerr]

Do enough XJ types do doublers?

Aside from one guy with a Klune (kinda a 1.5'er ;) ) I don't know anybody who doubles up.
Ive seen a few here and there but no one owns up to having done it when I asked before. Im planning a nice 4to1 and sye so maybe we can cover that topic

[vetteboy]

Do enough XJ types do doublers?

Aside from one guy with a Klune (kinda a 1.5'er ;) ) I don't know anybody who doubles up.

:)

http://www.phatserver.net/~chris/XJbuild/092306/under2.JPG

http://www.phatserver.net/~chris/XJbuild/071406/rough1.JPG

[SeanP]

Definately rear 4 link suspension thread as this is something I want to do next year.

[BRIANHO13]

Do enough XJ types do doublers?

Aside from one guy with a Klune (kinda a 1.5'er ;) ) I don't know anybody who doubles up.
I just put a 231 infront of a flipped dana 300, will be wheeling it for the first itme this weekend.

[CW]

I'm running a np231 to np231 (wide chain, 241 planetaries, hd sye 32spline output.) doubler. Haven't tested offroad yet because I didn't bring my jeep with me to school but it looks good in the garage. I hope it holds up well enough.

[JeepFreak21]

Regardless... are doublers really AdFab???
Billy

[Matt S.]

Regardless... are doublers really AdFab???
Billy


No.. and it wont be covered. So, don't worry.

[Mr.OverKill]

No.. and it wont be covered. So, don't worry.why is it not advanced??

i dont have the knowledg to do it without some guidance and i dont think 90% of the people on this site does either. you need to remember guys like me that cant afford to go get the newest, latest and greatest crawler box might be considering doing this doubler mod, i have an extra 307 T case on the side of the house and one in my rig and access to machineing tools but not a FAT check book so this is an ideal advanced tech mod for guys like me.

linking the rear of a rig is not advanced for me, and neither is building up a front axle but to sone it is. to rawbrown setting gears isnt advanced but to someone who has never done them its really advanced.

all i ask is that you think before you deny.:lecture:

[XJ_ranger]

why is it not advanced??

i dont have the knowledg to do it without some guidance and i dont think 90% of the people on this site does either. you need to remember guys like me that cant afford to go get the newest, latest and greatest crawler box might be considering doing this doubler mod, i have an extra 307 T case on the side of the house and one in my rig and access to machineing tools but not a FAT check book so this is an ideal advanced tech mod for guys like me.

linking the rear of a rig is not advanced for me, and neither is building up a front axle but to sone it is. to rawbrown setting gears isnt advanced but to someone who has never done them its really advanced.

all i ask is that you think before you deny.:lecture:

then make your own thread.

ask questions about your 307

get input from people who have done it

get them to chime in

This is Scrappy's creation - and he can cover what he wants... no one is saying that you cant have an informative thread on doublers....

[Mr.OverKill]

then make your own thread.

ask questions about your 307

get input from people who have done it

get them to chime in

This is Scrappy's creation - and he can cover what he wants... no one is saying that you cant have an informative thread on doublers....ok, you sir are right, my bad:anon:

[BRIANHO13]

This is Scrappy's creation - and he can cover what he wants... no one is saying that you cant have an informative thread on doublers....

if doublers are not advanced fab how is taking the doors and glass off advanced?

[Matt S.]

if doublers are not advanced fab how is taking the doors and glass off advanced?


They really arnt, but its usually what comes after that stuff that is. Doublers are not because to put it simply... I do not like them. They are IMO dumb to have. They are readily available through aftermarket sources and I NEVER will have one, so I wont be covering things that I do not think are worth while.

Buggy building, advanced tube bending, steering building, most anything that is custom building that a normal blow joe might beable to do or want to learn to do.

Dont worry, lots of good stuff will be brought to the table. I will do my best!

[RESET]

I am sorry I brought it up. I just wanted to see something about t-cases and doublers popped into my head. I was more interested in more of the combinations of parts that have been done. Such as using parts from one case to make another case stronger. i.e. putting 6 planetary sets into a 231.

Something else I would be interested in is tube fenders. I have seen some really good ones but can't get a good idea of how to duplicate them from the pics.

[GSequoia]

Personally I'd put tube fenders more in the realm of ModTech verses AdFab.

In my mind AdFab is for the *really* hard stuff. Yeah bending tube to create a fender line is a bit tricky but it's not really all that hard. Figuring outo how to create a structural cage that meets all your particular design criteria (be that full on strength or a compramise of strength verses east of use) is advanced.

[Starboard M]

Did it happen the first time?
Yes:

Weight Loss
http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=101812

Steering 101
http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=900805

[Mr.OverKill]

wow, two months of adfab totm, i dont think many people who do the serrious adfab have much time to dedicate to writing about it every month. i know have around 10 min a day on line with naxja and 2 .5 hours a day under my welding hood or under my junk a day when this stuff is on my mind and then i dont want to spend whats left of my time writing about it. but hay, thats just me.:laugh3:

[Skullver]

wow, two months of adfab totm, i dont think many people who do the serrious adfab have much time to dedicate to writing about it every month. i know have around 10 min a day on line with naxja and 2 .5 hours a day under my welding hood or under my junk a day when this stuff is on my mind and then i dont want to spend whats left of my time writing about it. but hay, thats just me.:laugh3:
Troy, you need an intern to follow you around and snap pics and take notes!

[XJ_ranger]

Bump.



It would be cool to see this stuff happening again.

what would you like to write about?

March 1 is tomorrow, maybe just throw a post up, and let everyone who cares write some...

[Phil]

what would you like to write about?

March 1 is tomorrow, maybe just throw a post up, and let everyone who cares write some...

Material selection...when should you shell out $4/ft for 1.25x.188 DOM (because that's what your local supplier has) or should you just go with $1.68/ft 1.25x.120 HREW and consider it sacrificial?

[XJ_ranger]

Material selection...when should you shell out $4/ft for 1.25x.188 DOM (because that's what your local supplier has) or should you just go with $1.68/ft 1.25x.120 HREW and consider it sacrificial?
it all depends on how much you're buying, and how often you're going to destroy it, and how many times you are ok with doing the same work...

if say you were buying a 10' stick, thats something like a $23 price difference, and you'd only have to do it once... 17+17 = $34 - so by the time you've done it twicem you've paid for the thicker tube ('cuse it'll probably cost $6 in beer to fix your smashed in tube)... and then you're just putting the same stuff back on again...