I need advice..will a 4.7L stroker be ok for towing?

[88JeepXJ]

OK I've asked this basic question a couple of ways before. I have even found older posts of mine but I have a very specific question now, not just hypothetical.

We have a race in Gainesville Florida next week. We are leaving from MA so it is about 1300 miles one way. Our race car is a '90 325is basically stripped but still around 2600 lbs. We originally were going to get a Chevy van and trailer to tow the car but the kid with the van backed out on us (actually he forgot he was going to loan us the van and he took it all apart)

So we are basically screwed. An RV is $1300 plus gas (7-10 mpg!), a Uhaul truck is $1200 one way, and everything else is miles based, so a lot of $$.

We have two affordable options:

Drive the car. It has 251k miles and although we have completely gone through it, it is still old and we have to race it once we get there, so if we break we are screwed. Insurance and gas will cost us around $500.

OR tow it with one of our XJs. I have a 99 Classic bone stock. I just went through it and replaced all the brakes, front wheel bearings, fluids, etc. and she only has 96k miles. It is a auto with basic rear end and no tow package. My buddy has an '88 with a rebuilt 4.7L stroker motor and several other mods including 29" tires, addco front and rear sway bars, and stripped interior (no rear seats or carpet or anything else basically).

We would add a tranny cooler, rear disk brakes, and a 2" hitch to whichever one we picked. Even with those mods is this a bad idea? We would likely get a tow dolly, but is that safe? Is either XJ better than the other?

Thanks
__________________

[DaffyXJ]

My 01 tow rating was 3000 lbs. Not sure where an 88 tops out at. But with a 2600 lb car, dolly, 2 guys and gear for a road trip, you'd be over that.
Down side is the wear and tear on all the parts, Brakes especially. The BIGGEST drawback is the wheel base of the XJ. Short wheelbase tow vehicles just aren't stable enough, and make the tow experience scarry at best.
Look into renting a pickup. F150/GM1500 series would be ALOT safer, cost in the 500 dollar range for a week, and give you a much more comfortable ride.

First hand experience, Last year a club member used a 98 grand Cherokee to tow his 97 TJ to an offroad trip. With TJ, Trailer and 4 guys in the Grand, the poor thing was over loaded beyond belief. He was able to make 50MPH MAX, and was weaving allover the place down the highway. It was only a 200 mile one way trip, and the other three of us in caravan talked the other guys into riding with us just to reduce the load on the grand, still it was a scarry trip.

I'd rent a real tow vehicle.
My $.02.

[langer1]

Well the lifted xj is out for sure, the 99 has marginal power but is to light and short.
Isn't there a Amtrak or Conrail service on the east coast that hauls cars.
Put it on the train and use the 99 to tow it to the track.

I would be fool hearty to try it over the Smokey Mountains with any XJ.

[langer1]

Auto Train is an 855-mile-(1376-km-)long scheduled train service for passengers and their automobiles, operated by Amtrak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak) between Lorton, Virginia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorton%2C_Virginia) (near Washington, D.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%2C_D.C.)) and Sanford, Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanford%2C_Florida) (near Orlando (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando%2C_Florida)). Although there are similar services (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_passenger_transport) around the world, the Auto Train is the only one of its kind in the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_America). Specialized equipment enables customers to take along their automobile, van, sport utility vehicle, motorcycle, small trailer, and/or jet-ski as they travel up or down the East Coast. Passengers ride in either wide coach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_%28rail%29) seats or private sleeping car (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_car) rooms while their vehicles are safely carried in enclosed automobile-carrying freight cars, called autoracks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorack). The train also includes lounge cars and dining cars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dining_car). The Auto Train service offers its passengers dual benefits: they avoid the long drive on busy Interstate 95 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_95) in Virginia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia), North Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina), South Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina), Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_%28U.S._state%29), and Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida), and instead of the expense and unfamiliarity of a rental car they have the convenience of the use of their own vehicle upon arrival.
The service operates as train 53 southbound and 52 northbound, making no station stops between its terminals at Lorton, Virginia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorton%2C_Virginia) and Sanford, Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanford%2C_Florida).

[Blue XJ]

Well the lifted xj is out for sure


Which one is the lifted one? 1 is bone stock, and the other has 29" tires, so I'm assuming its not lifted either.

[langer1]

Which one is the lifted one? 1 is bone stock, and the other has 29" tires, so I'm assuming its not lifted either.

I don't just guessing when he said it had other mods. Still enough power but to short and light to go far.

[CHUGLYxj]

find a local rental place or whatever with pickups and unlimited milage. Throw a hitch on it and go for it. The cost of frying you XJ would be much higher. Also if you get blown over and wreck both you'd be double screwed.

[xjtrailrider]

I tow alot with my XJ's, I think that you are pushing your luck towing that much weight with a Cherokee. My bass boat weighs 3000# and is a handfull with my 96' that has been modified for towing, so going another 1500# would be a disaster waiting to happen. Trailer brakes help but its the panic stops on wet pavement etc. that will get you everytime. Find another friend with a large SUV or pickup and pay them some money for letting you borrow it for the trip and then get it detailed for them when you get back.

[88JeepXJ]

I tow alot with my XJ's, I think that you are pushing your luck towing that much weight with a Cherokee. My bass boat weighs 3000# and is a handfull with my 96' that has been modified for towing, so going another 1500# would be a disaster waiting to happen. Trailer brakes help but its the panic stops on wet pavement etc. that will get you everytime. Find another friend with a large SUV or pickup and pay them some money for letting you borrow it for the trip and then get it detailed for them when you get back.

Why another 1500# over 3000#? The car is only 2600 and tow dolly can't weigh much more then 500# right?

[SCW]

Why another 1500# over 3000#? The car is only 2600 and tow dolly can't weigh much more then 500# right?

X2, but it's still borderline. I'd stick it on a dolly and drive around a bit, if it was hard to handle AT ALL, I'd rent an SUV for a week.

BTW, pulling with a dolly sucks. It pulls (and backs up) like a double trailer, you can forget about backing up unless you had some experience with doubles. they aren't really steady and smooth pulling forward either, full trailer is a lot better.

[DenLip]

OK I've asked this basic question a couple of ways before. I have even found older posts of mine but I have a very specific question now, not just hypothetical.

We have a race in Gainesville Florida next week. We are leaving from MA so it is about 1300 miles one way.

Okay, I gotta be brutally frank here.

I own a 2000 Cherokee (since new)... and have always had my "primary car" as well. The Cherokee's only been on one long highway ride (~400 miles) and it SUCKED. The Cherokee just isn't a real good highway vehicle... in terms of high-speed stability, braking, fuel economy, etc. Plus it's kinda noisy, cramped, and uncomfortable.

For what I bought it for (winter commute vehicle) it's great. But it NEVER goes on road trips.

I'm with the "rent something" camp. Preferably a full-size pickup, or SUV.
Still get lousy mileage... but much more comfort, and much more stability.

Den

[langer1]

When towing with a short light vehicle you don't want a tow dolly anyway.
A trailer with brakes and a load transfer hitch is a must.
A tow dolly should only be use when the tow vehicle is at least twice the weight of the vehicle being towed.
Snap an axle at the race your going to need a trailer anyway.

A 3000# tow capacity breaks down to 1/3 that weight on the tongue tow dollies don't add weight to the tongue and will just push you where ever it wants to go.

[xjtrailrider]

I understood the post to say that he was using a car trailer, which could weigh 800+#'s. And like others have stated its just not wise to do this anyway for thier safety or anyone else's. The XJ's engine will get it going with no problems but with the XJ its the lack of brakes, and the light weight of the tow vehicle that could spell disaster if a panic situation arises. The trailer brakes just aren't going to be enough to keep it straight and under control.

I refuse to give out irresponsible advice when it comes to possible life threatening situations.

[tgoff]

I just recently went on a 9 hour road trip in my 86 XJ 2.5L full of everything I own on my way back to college (500 miles) and it sucked. I have made the same trip in a 98 F150 way more comfortable and a lot more power for the hills (duh, 2.5L). This being said I say train or rent.

[j99xj]

I can understand the 2.5 liter.

But most of us forget how powerful a stock 4.0 is to begin with. I think you will be fine pulling with your stock 99. Just drive in "3". Not overdrive. And if your really have issues put it in the "1-2" selection and hammer down, and you will be just fine.

Your buds stroker will have an easier time pulling the trailer, but will have a harder time stopping it.

I'd take the 99 because it still has all the interior in it, greatly reducing road noise giving a more pleasant drive.

[CartsXJ]

I believe my 98 has a ~#5000 pulling limit if properly equiped, load equalizing bars, trailer brakes, auto, tranny cooler, etc. Its how you hitch the dolly up. If you can't find a friend with a 1/2 ton or better, if you throw a tranny cooler and 2" hitch on the 88 with the 4.7, then find a dolly with load equalizing bars and brakes, you would probably be alright as long as you didn't push it and took your time, leaving plenty of space for braking.


But then again, I am only a web-puller:rolleyes:

[badron]

Both would do. It would be slow going but both would do fine.
Save the money on disks. Just make sure the stockers are up to snuff.
Disks can have better fade resistance true. But you should not be pushing you Jeep that hard anyway. Keep your speed down on the longer down hills to start with and the stocker will be just fine.
Get a good trany cooler. Change the trany fluid before you leave and on a long pull like yours when you return. Trany fluid WILL wear out if it get over heated. Over 250 deg. F. and the life expectancy of T fluid goes down hill real fast. On a hot day and pulling long hills it's not hard to hit that temp with any auto trany on any car.
Oil: On my 01 it calls for the oil to be changed every 3500 when towing. I use Syn when towing long and heavy and any name brand filter.
Coolant system: A large rad is useful here. A FRESH mix of at least a 50/50 mix in that rad is fine in most cases. I run the new stuff in the 01 at about 80/20. Flush well and refill before departing. Large capacity water pumps and high flow T-stat housing ??? I have never needed or used one. In the 12 years of towing with one or an other Cherokee. But the vains on very old water pumps do go away sometimes so a fresh stocker may help. The Rad cap should be of the 16 LB type and tested. Many cheep ones have popped new at 12 lb.
On a long hard pull. If you do start to over heat over 240 to 250 F pull over take it out of gear but let the engine idle. Do NOT turn off the engine.
The engine itself should be in good shape. A tired engine will overheat a lot faster then a fresh one. It should not have a problem with blowby or burn a lot of oil.
Springs: air shocks are hard to beat for towing, sucks for offing.
In general drive slower. Take a lot longer to stop. Use your head and your Cherokee will pull a train to he$$ and back no problem.

[88JeepXJ]

Well I have an appointment at Uhaul tomorrow morning ($250 for class III hitch installed with wiring). I'll install the cooler this weekend. Then I'll cross my fingers.

We still have the option of driving the car but just not a good idea. We drove it around last night and it is pretty good actually, but it wasn't 2600 miles.

Thank for your help guys, I'll drive like I have a car towing behind me, don't worry.

[Jim Mesthene]

Keep it under 60 mph and you'll be OK.
Don't forget to post a report (post mortem?) when you get back.

[langer1]

Your trouble will come in the Mountains, hope you are going to pull a trailer with it's own brakes, you don't have enough weight to use a dolly.

[88JeepXJ]

Your trouble will come in the Mountains, hope you are going to pull a trailer with it's own brakes, you don't have enough weight to use a dolly.
I appreciate your input but others have actually done it and been ok. Do you have experience where you tried and had problems?

[RebelofMetal]

"find a local rental place or whatever with pickups and unlimited milage. Throw a hitch on it and go for it. The cost of frying you XJ would be much higher. Also if you get blown over and wreck both you'd be double screwed."

This is your best advice. My professional opinion is NO vehicle under 1 ton axle/brake/differential/suspension and transmission capacity, is suited to tow ANYTHING even a motorcycle trailer.

Unless a vehicle was specifically designed for towing, you will literally destroy components from A-Z. A cherokee is NOT a suitable vehicle for towing ANYTHING if you want it to last!!!

[RebelofMetal]

Rent an International 4300 (Don't get a GMC C7500, good god, don't, they are electrical nightmanres leaving you STRANDED - I adminster the warranty for them) from Budget TRUCK OR UHaul, and rent a car CARRIER, not a dolly. You will arrive safe n sound, and so will your car. You will have a big empty box in the back - invite some friends, bring a keg, and have a road party!!! (Soberest one drives!)

[dizzymac]

I can't see towing a car that far with an XJ. We towed an XJ on a car hauler last week/ I was going to use one of our other XJ's, am I glad we didn't.
We used a '98 Chevy K1500 4WD, AT P/U and you could really feel the weight. I now there is a weight diff. between the XJ and your car, but I still don't think you should attempt this with an XJ. You won't be able to do the speed limit safely with the short wheelbase and as others have noted.....BRAKES. XJ brakes are marginal at best, nevermind 2300+ lbs. pushing it .
Don't ruin either XJ, or worse yourselve's. Just isn't worth it

[jmowens]

Your trouble will come in the Mountains, hope you are going to pull a trailer with it's own brakes, you don't have enough weight to use a dolly.
I don't know if langer1 has had experience, but I have. You have to realize that the Cherokee is right at 3000# stock. You are talking about pulling at least 3100# pulling a dolly (really bad idea!) or 3400# (minimum) trailering. Plus you're going to carry a change of clothes, tools, etc, I would assume. All with a vehicle that was never designed to be a tow vehicle - yes, you could get a factory tow package - that's different from being a tow vehicle (ie, 1 ton, etc).

Now for my personal experience - I have an old runabout boat that on the trailer weighs about 2800#. It is a little light on the tongue (like the dolly will be) and it pushes my XJ wherever it wants to. I can handle it, becuase I am less than 20 miles to the water - and it is totally flat - and I allow a country mile for stopping!

You're going to have to cross the Appalacians somewhere (if I'm wrong correct me), and the XJ will be extremely dangerous going down.

I'm not saying that it can't be done, it's just not smart.

JM2CW

[Evan463]

I have a 98XJ with a basically stock engine, only a tranny cooler and intake. I pull a trailer semi reguraly my boat weighs a good 4000 to 4500 with gear and have found that it will pull it fine. Stopes alittle slower yet i dont speed around with a trailer thats just stupid. Longest trip ive taken it on was about a hour each way and it was fine the whole way. id say as long as you stop more often then never youd probly be fine with it. Just think safely rather then stupidly. however on another note id say if funds allow get a truck made to pull twice as much and your ride will be twice as enjoyable. my two cents.

[88JeepXJ]

OK how about this.
Since the car is registered and insured...we give it the old college try and tow the car on a dolly. If through the mountains it starts getting scary we can always pull the car off the trailer and my buddy will drive it behind me. Ten when we get to a good flat strech of open highway we throw it back on (ya I know it will be a PITA getting it on and off the dolly but...).

[xjtrailrider]

Thats a good compromise but I still wouldnt do it. I've got 80k miles towing with a XJ under my belt with the rig shown below, the trailer has disc brakes and I still take it very slow. The boat/trailer shown weighs 3100# and has a 200# tongue weight. Thats as high as I care to go with a XJ. I never go above 55, and I've worked out all of the sway/swerving issues with the trailer.

If you just havta do it, use a car trailer with brakes.

Good luck and may God be with you!

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/360/jeepboatsideview2lr.jpg

[jmowens]

That makes me feel a little better - biggest concern is that a dolly is going to have a very low tongue weight (like my boat). This tends to pick up the back end of a tow vehicle as light as an XJ. Pulling is no problem - it will get squirrley at speeds, and you'll never get it stopped going down the mountain - driving the car down is a good compromise...

(I still wouldn't do it though)

[crofoot]

OK.I put on 50,000 miles a year with a trailer behind me.there is a dolly out there that has a surge brake and a cable that runs back to the ebrake cable.attaches at the y.THE BEST CHOICE if you are intent on towing with XJ.I tow my trail rig 89 XJ with my dd 89 XJ using a tow bar that has this system and it works great,Please use due care and caution if you tow with the XJ.I would use the stock one or put the stock tires on the 4.7.good luck

[88JeepXJ]

She is at Uhaul now getting the hitch.
I will be careful, I don't want to hurt me, my Jeep or my race car. It isn't ideal but we got screwed at the last minute so this is the best option.
Cross your fingers for me that we make it back without incident.

[langer1]

The bad thing is, often there is little or no warning before things go very wrong.

[88JeepXJ]

The bad thing is, often there is little or no warning before things go very wrong.

You are QUITE the pessimist huh?! wow
:)

We you and others not so thrilled about towing will be happy to hear that Uhaul informed me that there was a bolt they couldn't get out so they couldn't install the hitch. Yup, "a bolt". My father dropped it off there on his way to work so I don't have many details...but the jist of the story is that we are driving a 16 yo, quarter million mile car 2600 miles becasue I have the worst luck when it comes to finding a suitable towing option.
Just Fing awesome. WTF

[xjtrailrider]

I think a higher power sent you a message, and thats a possitive thing.

[CJ~Abuzer]

I think a higher power sent you a message, and thats a possitive thing.


I have to agree.


I have a 2000 with a 4.0 and AW4. My boat is a 1958 14ft fiberglass hull with a 45 horse Chrysler on it. It is very lightweight (so light you can move the boat around by hand with one person) and it can be scary enough to tow (and I have been towing trailers for 15 years), much less all the weight you were talking about hauling. Count your blessings....you are better off not towing it with the XJ.

[88JeepXJ]

UPDATE:

Well for the good or bad Uhaul did end up putting on a class III hitch, I installed a large-ish (18"x9") tranny cooler and changed the fluid, replaced my tired tranny mount, and checked out all the fluids and brakes. A 1999 XJ (4.0L AW4) towing Uhaul tow dolly made it ~2,700 miles without incident. I wouldn't highly recommend it though. Maybe it is just me but she feels tired. My rear springs have sagged a bit and overall it is just a long trip with an XJ. But it did it, brakes were OK (I'm very glad I just replaced everything in the front end), power was OK (chugged a bit uphills), and the cooling system was just fine. The trailer combo didn't push me around too much although wind and trucks can make it a bit floaty.

Again, it is highly possible in a pinch, but if you love your XJ and you have something bigger to tow do it.

[old_man]

I tow my XJ with a tow dolly with electric brakes that work from a simple 4 pin connector. It works great. It is wide and stable. Much more stable than a trailer.

As for using an XJ to tow, a stroker is the perfect engine to tow with since its power band is lower, down at highway speeds. Big fat tires make for a less stable tow, but not that bad if aired up. You said 29" tires were on the stroker. The stroker sounds perfect.

[shelbyluvv]

I caught this thread a little too late to add my input. Here was my worst towing idea, but it worked.

Got orders from Camp Pendleton CA to Albany GA. I had 3 cars at the time, 1993 Dodge Intrepid, 1987 Dodge Shelby Charger, and a 1984 Dodge Rampage. I loved both of my 80's cars and could not part with them. Long story short. I took the Intrepid to U-Haul had a hitch installed, rented a dolly and my wife towed the Shelby with the Intrepid. It made it with no problem. If you take your time and be safe you can do it.

[jeepnuts311]

UPDATE:

Well for the good or bad Uhaul did end up putting on a class III hitch, I installed a large-ish (18"x9") tranny cooler and changed the fluid, replaced my tired tranny mount, and checked out all the fluids and brakes. A 1999 XJ (4.0L AW4) towing Uhaul tow dolly made it ~2,700 miles without incident. I wouldn't highly recommend it though. Maybe it is just me but she feels tired. My rear springs have sagged a bit and overall it is just a long trip with an XJ. But it did it, brakes were OK (I'm very glad I just replaced everything in the front end), power was OK (chugged a bit uphills), and the cooling system was just fine. The trailer combo didn't push me around too much although wind and trucks can make it a bit floaty.

Again, it is highly possible in a pinch, but if you love your XJ and you have something bigger to tow do it.


glad you got back home safe. how did the bimmer do? didja win?

-Tim

[badron]

I just don't get it. I know the big Auto makers want you to buy the biggest engine. (more money for them) With an auto trany and lots of extras. Just to pull a setting hen off the nest. But I have pulled trailers all my life with much less HP smaller brakes and one had a 3 speed stick. So have 1000s of others with no problems.
Why the fear of towing. ?????????????

[lost1]

Not enough education.

You get sold a vehicle that is 'set up' to tow, but how often do automakers include towing tips and instructions with those nifty little manuals in the glovebox? Now you have the opportunity for making a nervous driver, because maybe they've never towed before, or they haven't towed enough to be confident. Just like driving, most of the time experience is everything; unlike driving, there probably aren't many towing courses available to the average joe. I've had to learn everything of what I know about off-roading and towing myself, through experience. I'm just lucky (or paranoid) enough that I haven't had any accidents. Straightaways, I've towed plenty. In Mountains, the most I've ever towed was a 5x8 trailer from U-haul. It was a good learning experience, but I'm certain pulling a car's going to present different challenges in its own way.