PA bumper hight laws (guess how I found out)

[Hammered]

As some of you know I just paid a 116$ fine because of a missing flare. TODAY I was on my way to my buddies and got pulled over AGAIN on the PA T-Pike by a state cop... He was pretty decent about the whole situation. BUT he stopped me about my BUMPER HEIGHT.

He gets his PA hand book out and shows me what it says. 22" to the bottom of the front bumper (Passenger Vehicles) 24" to the bottom of the front bumper (Light truck & Suv)... I was like holy hell man... that cant be right. Dodge trucks roll off the lot higher than that. So we measure mine... Heres the drum rolll...

31" to the bottom of my front bumper. so I get this $109 dollar fine. (no I am never going on the Turnpike again)... I'm just gonna pay it and hide my jeep on the back roads of Amish land. How am I going to make up 9 friggin Inches???????????

all that work, and there is no way in gods green earth I am gonna sell the tires I just got on... Nor am I gonna slap 9 inches of plate to the bottom of my bumper. Just makes me wonder what all of you guys measure. JS Customs is 23" ...but this was not on flat ground + his was jacked up a lil in the rear.



!!!1!!!1!!!1!!!1!!!1!!!1!!!1!!!1

[HQuakers]

That sucks man. I drive the Turnpike all the time, but being from NJ I don't get hassled. What about a sheetmetal brush guard or tube brush guard:

http://image.off-roadweb.com/f/8326160+w750+st0/0507or_02_z+2001_toyota_tundra+brush_guard.jpg

Lower part of this one:

http://www.atvsource.com/manufacturers/polaris/2009/prod_line/accessories/rzr_prerunner_small.jpg

[MaxxXJ]

that sucks BUT here's the deal, its a fix it ticket right?, so a cop has to verify its been fixed. so you will have to figure out how to lower your xj 9" to get it written off im sure.

sorry i stumbled into this thread by accident by clicking that new post button. but here in ca the laws state

Headlight Height - Must be between 22" and 54" in height.
Bumper Height - No restrictions. You must have them installed though.
Exhaust Height - If exiting to the side, must be 24" or less
Mudflaps and Fenders - Must extend or cover all of the tire
Frame Height - Up to 4,500 pounds GVWR - 27 inches
4,501 to 7,500 pounds GVWR - 30 inches
7,501 to 10,000 pounds GVWR - 31 inches

and we have trucks here with 10"+ of lift on huge tires and i never see an issue i can bet that the cop was picking in you looking for an easy ticket.

[SleeperXJ]

Maybe fab one up that you can remove when you hit the trails

[bandit455]

that sucks BUT here's the deal, its a fix it ticket right?, so a cop has to verify its been fixed. so you will have to figure out how to lower your xj 9" to get it written off im sure.

that aint happenen

he will just pay up

thats what happens when you get 4 free 35"s:viking:

[MaxxXJ]

rofl true true, if i lived near PA i'd toss him my 235's to use to roll down there to fix it lol, i'd even say air down to make it sit lower lol be like im headed to the trail and i roll my vehicle like this...

[Hammered]

I thought about that, but god man, thats not gonna give me 9 inches

[Hammered]

and no it was a citation... not a fixit or ticket deal... I could fight it but I'm way way off you think they wont laugh at my ass when I buzz up on stock tires? it will be way too obvious. Plus I'd need to go buy a set. Its just total BS if you ask me.

[Hammered]

Just had a little brain storm... you guys mentioned a bolt on, wonder if I just had a hoop go down kinda like the one above... NO PLATE. I'll have to screw around with this at work.

[js_customs]

Brad I have a set of stock tires if you'd want to try to put them on and see "if it gives you 9" ;)" They're mounted on wheels too. You'd look like a tard but it's worth a shot.

[Hammered]

Hell I'll try it. just to see.

[tcervinsky]

now i don't know if the law has changed recently, but I'm sure the state inspection code says the bottom of the bumper must be no higher than 30 or 31 inches. Just after I lifted my Jeep I took it to get it inspected and one of the "old farts" working there looked at my XJ from across the parking lot and said he was going to fail it and I shouldn't even bother... it pissed me off so I made them look it up and then measure it. 30" and I was at 29 and 3/4", needless to say, it passed. I've made no changes to it since then (five years ago) I pass the police all the time and I've never been pulled over for it. I'd like to see this "law" that the officer showed you.

[Hammered]

I looked right at the book man. it was all there in B&W


I want to talk to a garage and see if theres some loophole I can find.

[tcervinsky]

Here, copy this and take it to your hearing for the ticket, I'm sure it will get you off the hook for this one. Page E7, half way down on the right, section 6 of bumpers...

http://http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/pub_45/section_e.pdf

[STROKER]

That sux bro but i feel your pain, i had just gotten off the TP and the cop was sitting on the shoulder, he nailed me for height and flares, then threatened that if i drove thru his township again he would take the truck from me and i told him ,after i grabbed the tickets from him, "outta my cold dead hands a$$hole", then drove off.... anyway after that the XJ was taken off the road and i bought a beater to get around in.

As far as your height, I would make a bolt on/off hoop on the bottom of the bumper, as long as its part of the bumper they can't do anything. Good luck.

STROKER

[kastein]

I'd have to agree with the bolt-on lower bumper section... maybe stick some lights on it as well so you can fit any headlight restrictions too?

EDIT: For ease of use, make it connect via the tow points? That way you could just drop it on and throw a couple bolts through it.

[Hammered]

...I see what you are saying. But that still leaves me a inch over 30 (they say 16 to 30) But I swear his book said otherwise. And you can bet if I go in there ready to fight, they will rake my ass over the coals - picking apart the tires / flares and Fog lights and any other BS they can come up with.



My thought is to Print this out, have it with me ...but I still think I'm playing with fire if I fight this.

[Hammered]

Yeah... I want to get a Subaru Justy... or some POS car for a DD / Junkyard beater.

[Hammered]

well here it is kids... PA Vehicle code. Word for word.

§ 175.78. Chassis.

(a) Condition of chassis. All items on the chassis shall be in safe operating condition as described in § 175.80 (relating to inspection procedure).

(b) Vehicle frame. A vehicle frame shall be in solid condition.

(c) Motor mounts. Motor mounts may not be broken, cracked or missing.

(d) Flooring and floor beds. Flooring and floor beds shall be of a construction to support occupants and cargo which the vehicle is capable of carrying and may not have openings through which exhaust gases could enter passenger compartment.

(e) Bumpers. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with bumpers of a type used as original equipment, or a suitable replacement which is equal to or greater in strength than that provided by the vehicle manufacturer, securely attached to the chassis or frame. See 75 Pa.C.S. § 4536 (relating to bumpers).

(1) A bumper shall be of at least equivalent strength and mounting as the original equipment.

(2) No portion of a bumper may be broken, torn or protruding to create a hazard.

(3) A bumper may not extend beyond the body line or be longer than original equipment, whichever is greater.

(4) A wood plank bumper is permitted on a road service truck or wrecker if it is firmly attached to a regular bumper or equivalent steel backing.
(Editors Note: The effective date of subsection (e)(5) is postponed indefinitely, 29 Pa.B. 2460 (May 8, 1999). Until such time as this subsection is made effective, the regulation shall continue to provide:

(5) Some part of a horizontal bumper bar on passenger vehicles shall fall within 16—20 inches above ground level.

(6) Some part of a horizontal bumper bar on a multipurpose passenger vehicle and light truck shall fall within 16—30 inches above ground level.

See 26 Pa.B. 4230 (August 31, 1996).)

(5) Bumper height. Bumper height shall be as follows:

(i) Some part of the main horizontal bumper bar, exclusive of any bumper guards, on passenger vehicles and light trucks shall fall within 16 inches aboveground level and may not exceed the following limits:


Maximum Height
Vehicle Class Front Bumper (or Frame if
any of the conditions in
subparagraph (ii) apply) Rear Bumper (or Frame if
any of the conditions in
subparagraph (ii) apply)
Passenger cars 22 inches 22 inches
Trucks and multipurpose passenger Vehicles
5,000 lbs. or less GVWR 24 inches 26 inches
5,001 lbs.—7,000 lbs. GVWR 27 inches 29 inches
7,001 lbs.—9,000 lbs. GVWR 28 inches 30 inches
9,001 lbs.—11,000 lbs. GVWR 30 inches 30 inches
(ii) The front and rear height measurements shall be made to the bottom edge of the foremost portion of the frame rail, or to the original mounting brackets, whichever is lower, if one of the following apply:

(A) The bumper height, relative to the frame rail, has been altered.

(B) The vehicle was not originally equipped with a front or rear bumper.

(C) A supplemental bumper has been added.

(D) The manufacturer’s specified bumper has been replaced with a bumper not identical to the manufacturer’s specified bumper.

[Hammered]

so 24 for the front - 26 for the rear, pfft.

[WrEkLEsSXJ]

so 24 for the front - 26 for the rear, pfft.


im at 26-1/2 up front.. and goin up another 2" and 33's haha!

[Prosonic]

so 24 for the front - 26 for the rear, pfft.

Yeah, PA vehicle laws suck. I just bumped the Jeep up another 1.5" and put 33s on, and I'm at 25" front and back.
So, the back's legal, I've got that going for me.

[bandit455]

im at 22 in the front

when I line and tuck 37"s someday very far away i will only be at 24

[muduck18]

What I don't get, is why do they all the sudden start pulling for this stuff?
I have had my jeep lifted for 5 years. 31's then 33's and my bumper at least 28, 29 inches off the ground.
I have spend Many hours on the TPK, and never had a problem. (knock on wood) I pass cops all the time..
Hammered.. I think your reputation precedes you :eyes: they are lookin for you!

[bandit455]

What I don't get, is why do they all the sudden start pulling for this stuff?
I have had my jeep lifted for 5 years. 31's then 33's and my bumper at least 28, 29 inches off the ground.
I have spend Many hours on the TPK, and never had a problem. (knock on wood) I pass cops all the time..
Hammered.. I think your reputation precedes you :eyes: they are lookin for you!

x2

next to this there is a picture of brad's jeep and it says

"notice that this vehicle's bumper is waaaaayyyy of the ground, he has done everything else right and legally but we don't like this guy, so go make our quota"

[lilredxj99]

Budget constraints... easy ticket = easy cash flow

more tickets = more revenues...

more revenue = happy guberment officials...

:dunno:

[ghettocruiser]

Ive talked to a lot of cops about this... And here is the big pain. Even if you were to put an extension on your bumper, they can still technically get you. Somewhere in the code books it says the bumper height is measured from the "frame" where the bumper mounts. Because thats what the frame horns do. They are what the bumper pushes against. So anything below them basically isnt supposed to count.

However...you'd have to have a pretty anal cop for him to go that far. Usually, these guys are bored, or are pulling you over because they think they can find something, and if they dont, they'll nit pick. Ive never had an issue, and I used to drive on the TPK a LOT. One trip back from paragon we all were in line and a state cop pulled up and stopped next to each of our Jeeps on the highway, sat there for a second pacing us, then would move on.

The only thing ever mentioned to me while pulled over was my tires sticking out, and my clear corner lenses. He pulled me over for looking suspicious...and i was right in front of my house. So he had to say something official sounding I guess.

Bumper laws suck...

J.

[altierior]

i'm 26" front and rear :cool:

[Dest]

Wow that sucks, 31" down in WV.

[Hammered]

So I went to deal with this today, the Judge flat out said hes not real clear on the fine lines on the law in these cases. He told me to meet with a Vehicle inspection officer if I want to know what the real facts are in this mess.


Question is... do I go and enter into the lions den like a piece of meat... or do I just tuck my tail under and travel the backroads hoping this doesnt happen again.

[muduck18]

fight it worst case your out 50 extra bucks
best case, next time you get pulled over you get to cite an actual case of when it was over turned by an inspection officer, or judge.

[Hammered]

cant fight it. says 16 to 30 and I measured 31... The question is where do I need to be. What is gonna make me Legal. I used to think none of this crap mattered, but I cant handle another fine. I want to make this thing Highway legal ;)

[bandit455]

cant fight it. says 16 to 30 and I measured 31... The question is where do I need to be. What is gonna make me Legal. I used to think none of this crap mattered, but I cant handle another fine. I want to make this thing Highway legal ;)

get a trailer and rock 30"s to your destination

we know you have a neat way to get them on and off quickly

[WrEkLEsSXJ]

if you wanted to trade the 35's for your 33's back we could do that ;)

[Hammered]

it actually crossed my mind

[WrEkLEsSXJ]

lol.. thatd be sick! brand new 35's for 400!!!

[Char-Broil]

this sucks. you're pretty screwed i guess. this is why i wondered if i shoulda left my XJ registered as a truck. i don't plan on going that big with it, but still. the laws are different for trucks than light truck/suv. doesn't sound like adding a drop-down bar would cover a multitude of sins, but perhaps would pass in this case and give you a reference in later cases like muduck was saying. sorry i'm not much help man, good luck and let us know how it turns out. i would fight it if you wanna keep that thing on the road the way it is. btw going to 30's will only get you 2.5" lower and going to 235/75's will only get ya to 3.5-4" lower if you're lucky. and you're right it will look rediculous and won't buy you anything

[MrShaft696]

why not go lower & hack up the fenders a bit more, w/some bumpstop

[Char-Broil]

oooh ooooh i know. how bout some ratcheting limiting straps? you cinch them down 9" while you are on the road, and then pop them off when u hit the trail...

[5spd_xj]

beadlocked 215s and 3psi. :spin1:

[cj11]

OK just go back to stock no more off roading for you.:twak:

[Hammered]

Its my dd... I havnt made any changes yet... Gonna look into re-registering it as a truck & put a small drop hoop on it.

[WrEkLEsSXJ]

why not go lower & hack up the fenders a bit more, w/some bumpstop

uhh.. no lol... he literally just lifted it more and put 35s on i doubt lowering it is an option

oooh ooooh i know. how bout some ratcheting limiting straps? you cinch them down 9" while you are on the road, and then pop them off when u hit the trail...

probably roll over if one of em broke tho:wow:

beadlocked 215s and 3psi. :spin1:

theres an idea :doh:

Its my dd... I havnt made any changes yet... Gonna look into re-registering it as a truck & put a small drop hoop on it.

just make a reverse pre runner to stick in the receiver

[SeansBlueXJ]

why not go lower & hack up the fenders a bit more, w/some bumpstop

That would let you keep the 35's. Sucks to loose some lift but you would keep the fancy new tires.

[Syco-Billy]

Differnce in ground clearance between 35's and 33's is only approx an inch.

[Hammered]

Thank you. As though my math skills are under the back seat on the short bus.

[Veeb0rg]

beadlocked 215s and 3psi. :spin1:

cept I don't believe beadlock rims are street legal either.

[Char-Broil]

Thank you. My math skills are still under the back seat on the short bus.

Fixed it for ya :looney: Aren't they though?

cept I don't believe beadlock rims are street legal either.

Myth. Some states have laws against 2 piece wheels, but beadlocks are not technically 2 piece wheels. Check the fine print in the laws, I think you're OK. Read this: http://www.aev-conversions.com/products/wheels/beadlock_info.php

[Hammered]

indeed

[Andy in Pa.]

cant fight it. says 16 to 30 and I measured 31... The question is where do I need to be. What is gonna make me Legal. I used to think none of this crap mattered, but I cant handle another fine. I want to make this thing Highway legal ;)

LOL.... no worries, by the time I am done with you on Sat., your springs will be sagged down far enough that you'll be fine:firedevil

[Hammered]

... hmm Andys going left... I think i'll go right here. heh heh


Hey buddy, if we let you lead we might be pulling ya outta a ditch. :shhh:

[Char-Broil]

Greens and blues?

[Hammered]

Me? yes... Andy... I donno.

[Andy in Pa.]

... hmm Andys going left... I think i'll go right here. heh heh


Hey buddy, if we let you lead we might be pulling ya outta a ditch. :shhh:

LOL.... I have needed to be pulled out of MUCH worse holes/ditches than that, just goes to show ya... don't ever get too cocky... you'll get knocked back a few notches every time.....

I'm good with that, stick to the greens and blues and you'll be fine.;)

[Hammered]

I woulda thought I'd have had this Currie in, but fate has worked its magic on the shipping process.

[Char-Broil]

tell me about it! ACX shipped my ECU 2nd day air yesterday, but didn't mark it for Saturday delivery, so it won't be here till Monday! Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of 2nd day air?

[Hammered]

From BMJA


hey guys been awhile, been racing and working and life...

anyway stay away from spring township..... and watch out every where, i got a WARNING ticket today for oversized tires, oversized flares, windsheild sticker, windsheild lighta, and being uncovered, all the headlight, tail light, turn signal guards. if i dont take care of all this stuff within 5 days and show the officer it has been taken care of i am looking at over $1000 to $1500 in fines and a fine for desregaurding a warning citation. this is ****!!!! first off the flares that are on my jeep are factory. he said he doesnt care, they are not allowed to stick out farther then 3 inches from the most extreme part of the body. the jk front flares stick out over 10" he says. he said it doenst matter and dealers will sell you anything that you want wether it is legal or not. each flare (4) is a citation and each tire (4) is a citation. all the guards (6) on the lights are a citation each, and each windsheild light is a citation each plus not being covered. he said all offroad lights must be mounted ON TOP of vehicle and must be covered at all times. he is also wanting to give me a citation for the windshield sticker and the bmja member sticker that is in my windshield. says they obstruct my vision. man i am so pissed!!!! this is rediculous. absolutely pathetic. i guess i talked to one of my friends in bern township and he said that all the police deparments are sending at least one officer to DOT schooling and they will be citing people for stuff. i think he was going to ticket me too, untill my son in the back seat started freakin out (he is 3) they he said he was just going to give me a warning. he had me pulled over on 222 this morning for 32 minutes and he argued (got nasty) about the factory flares. unfortunately this wasnt bern and my buddy cant get me out of it. what are your suggestions? i am so upset about this i am really thinking about just getting rid of the damn thing. plus it has been back like 4 times now for the top leaking and huge stains on the seats from water and 3 times cause it wont start half the time and outten says there is nothing wrong with it. one time it even left me sit and brenda had to come get me at 11pm down at the new giant and target (which i still owe you for, havent forgotten) they wouldnt even tow the freakin thing but that is another story though.....

anyway so what are you opinions on this, i really cant afford $1500 in new wheels and tires, and the flares what the hell am i gonna do about that? THEY ARE FACTORY!!! I CANT AFFORD $1500 IN FINES EITHER! I GUESS I AM SCREWED!

[SeansBlueXJ]

wow... makes me glad for my 2 1/2" and 31's. I hate to say it, but we need lift laws like NJ. They are within reason and rather fair if you build the rig right, you just need a special inspection.

[WrEkLEsSXJ]

arent the JK "flares" the fenders themselves?