Advice on hydraulic lifter in new Jasper

Had a really bad time on my 1992 XJ 4.0 with auto trans with a Titan engine

(see http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=939290)

and eventually gave up. Titan went as a core to Jasper for a new rebuilt. This went in and has about 4000 miles on it. Engine runs fine and purrs. No running hot, no coolant leak. Everything's great, but...

About 3000 miles I noticed that one of the hydraulic lifters in the valve train isn't pumping up right away. I start the engine and it clacks until the engine begins to warm. If I start cold (70 deg C) it takes about 4 minutes for the clack to go away, or at about 150 deg C engine temp. When it goes away it just GOES. One second it's clacking and then in maybe 1 or two engine revolutions it's gone and sounds fine. And it stays fine thru the remainder of the use. But if the Jeep sits overnight or longer I hear it again.

Jasper suggested a NAPA oil filter with a anti-leakback valve. Tried this and still have same problem.

Jasper will pay to have this problem corrected. But my jeep will be down for a while and I don't like other people working on it.

So question is: how stuffed am I? Will I burn a valve during the limited warm up time? Think I could just leave well enough alone?

And next question: what might cause this in a new rebuilt motor?

I guess my jeep is mechanically jinxed...

Thanks for help!

Mike

The way you burn a valve is if it sticks open. Your collapsed lifter just isn't opening it far enough. You just get reduced performance and noise when it is collapsed. It won't burn your valve. Personally, if they will fix it for free, I'd let them. I don't know if they use Chinese lifters or reused ones or what. Possibly a can of liquid wrench in the oil or that Marvel Mystery oil might brake it loose and fix it. Probably not because once it warms up it goes away. Maybe a thinner synthetic oil would work better too.

Good question, what oil are you using? It might be part of the problem!!!!

MMO oil is great for that problem, but the newer API SM grade oils are not to great with our old style flat tapets. They lack sufficient ZDDP zinc.

Ecomike said:

Good question, what oil are you using? It might be part of the problem!!!!

MMO oil is great for that problem, but the newer API SM grade oils are not to great with our old style flat tapets. They lack sufficient ZDDP zinc.

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Thanks for both comments about oil. I've quoted one above.

I hadn't really thought about oil but yes this could be a contributer. Maybe in a new engine there just needs to be a little wear on the lifters to get them to free up. I started the engine yesterday and didn't notice the sound so my problem is at least intermittent. If I won't burn a valve then maybe I'll just leave well enough alone for a while. Jasper's warranty still has nearly 3 years so I've got time.

I'm using 10-40 Penzoil. Maybe I should change? Sorry I don't know what "MMO" means. What is MMO oil? It's almost oil change time. What oil would you suggest?

Thanks!
Mike

Marvel Mystery Oil

Oh... that was easy. Guess I need to drink more cofee this morning.

It appears that MMO is mostly a gas additive. I don't need to break this lifter loose, it does this on its own when the engine warms. So question is... is there a better oil than the Penzoil 10-40 I'm using. I used a oil for disel engines for my first 500 miles. Rotillia I think it was called. Is this a better oil? Suggestion for what I should use next oil change?

Thanks!

Many people consider Penzoil to be the worst stuff around.

I would go back to the diesel oil for now, but the real issue is the ZDDP oil content.

Check out this thread.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=923009&highlight=ZDDP

and

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=943013&highlight=ZDDP

MMO is a great oil additive for keep lifters clean, free and loose, or for freeing up stick lifters, not just a gas additive. Used more as an oil additive.

You might consider some of the synthetic oils like Mobil 1, at about 10,000 miles, since you have a new engine!!!

I wouldn't use Penzoil. Either go with diesel or Valvoline VR1 oil.

A can of GM's EOS (engine oil supplement) or BG MOA sure won't hurt.

Oil stuff........... http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=992751&highlight=zddp
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=989829&highlight=zddp

JJacobs said:

A can of GM's EOS (engine oil supplement) or BG MOA sure won't hurt.

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Thanks for posting those, I had forgotten them. IS
the GM EOS still made? Last I heard a year ago they stopped making it?

i had the same lifter problem, i used mobil 1 10w/30 high mileage oil and substituted some MMO in there and it did free it up . i guess the mobil 1 has more zinc in it that sticks to the flat tippets. worked for me .

Thanks for the responses. I don't want this thread to turn into an oil discussion since these seem to go on and on. But I think that oil is the right track to take for my lifter problem rather than a repair since it is so much easier to change oil. I read some of the oil posts and it seems Mobil 1 15w-50w is for me. It doesn't get very cold here in San Diego. So I'm going to do a oil change this weekend and will see if problem goes away.

I didn't notice the problem the last time I started the motor so if it's gone after the oil change there won't be a definite correlation. But I'll just be happy if it's gone...

Mike

Valvoline dino oil is one of the few that I know for sure has ZDDP in it. Their blend and full syn also have it, So does Amsoil (best I ahve used) and Pennzoil Platinum (the only of the brand I recommend. I am not a fan of Mobil 1, but if it works for you.. awesome.

Specifically its the Valvoline VR1 with a good level of ZDDP. Amsoil has a few products with good levels as well. I;m running VR1 until I am fully satisfied with the break in then switching to Amsoil.

On your problem, if the oil fixed it, thats good. However if it does come back you can pull the valve cover off and find which one is making the noise... give the rocker arm a few taps over the push rod. There could easily be a piece of dirt in there that is jamming the lifter.

I ran across this in my new Eastwood catalog:

http://www.eastwood.com/zddp-oil-additive.html

ZDDP Oil Additive


After 70+ years, the EPA mandated that all domestic oil producers remove ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate) from all conventional and synthetic motor oil. If your engine was designed before 1989 the non-roller lifters require ZDDP to avoid premature deterioration. ZDDP also alters bearing and journal surface characteristics to prevent metal to metal contact. Under extreme conditions like a high performance motor, ZDDP reduces the tendency of parts to scuff or gall under heavy loads. Simply add ZDDP-Plus to every 4-5 quart oil change and your motor will be protected from metal to metal contact. Add one 4 ounce bottle to a 4-5 quart oil change
modifier to eliminate and metal-to-metal contact .

"ZDDPlus" is the best insurance to protect your
classic or high-performance flat-tappet engine!"
says NHRA's #1 Drag Racer of all time,
"Big Daddy" Don Garlits.

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May be what were looking for.

Where they say if your engine was designed BEFORE 1989...... I have a 1989 XJ - so I fall in to the category of needing this also -right?

Its not necessarily the date that mandates ZDDP. Its the fact that our engines (4.0L, 4.2L) have flat tappet camshafts. ZDDPlus is a good product.

Correct, in our case the flat tappets up 2002, 4.0, straight six bangers need the ZDDP.

Up to 2006. You forgot the TJ and WJ.

Talyn said:

Up to 2006. You forgot the TJ and WJ.

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OK, you got me. But I thought this was an XJ site?