Frame damage?

Hey everyone,

While looking around at the rear axle of my XJ to get an idea of what removing the rear sway bar will involve, I found the more significant results of what was most certainly a rear-end collision at some point in the vehicle's history (the CarFax, of course, comes out clean). At the rear of the "arch" in the frame (the part that goes over the axle), just in front of the mounting plate for the trailer hitch, the frame appears a bit tweaked (subtly different on each side). I also noticed that the hitch points slightly downward... Based on the damage to the little box housing the trailer electrical plug, it would appear as though the vehicle was rear-ended with the hitch receiving the vast majority of the impact, thereby tweaking the frame almost exactly where the hitch mounting plates end.

Now, I know that since it's behind the rear axle it technically shouldn't affect handling or driveability. However, do I have anything else to be concerned about? Could this have possible implications with regard to towing with this vehicle? Would it be worth looking into possibly having the damage repaired?

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

I thought the xj's don't have a frame i'm gonna hurry up and try to find my frame .. NO luck elusive little critter ....oooohhhhh you mean UNIBODY sorry I could'nt resist and yes we know what you mean !!!:moon:

Is it driving straight? Tires wearing OK? No creaking sounds from that area? Don't worry about it. You might look into frame rail stiffeners to prevent further damage. Only way to really fix that kind of damage, is a new XJ.

my xj was totaled for the exact same damage. I would plate it and rock on if nothing is affected and the tweak isnt severe. .
heres a pic of mine for reference.

they totaled it because obviously the cost of repairs would exceed the value of the jeep.

Thanks for all the input, guys.

rhinoron713 - Wise in the ways of sarcasm, you are . Yeah, I know it's a unibody, but it does have underlying frame rails to which everything is welded (which is what I was referring to).

93gc40 - It does drive straight, but I haven't had it long enough to know whether or not the tires wear evenly (I've driven it maybe 600 miles thus far). There's no creaking that I can hear, just occasional clunking over larger/more intense bumps at higher speeds (which I think is due to the rear sway bar, which I'll be removing this weekend). Hitting small bumps and maneuvering is rock-solid and silent otherwise after replacing the rear shocks.

rysam - Thanks a ton for the pic - my damage is similar but thank God it's not nearly as substantial. It's subtle enough that my dumb ass didn't notice it while looking over the car before buying it, but now I wish I'd looked a bit closer.

I'll get some pics as soon as possible. Thanks for all the input in the mean time!

Here we go. Pics follow - one for each side of the car, the third being the hitch:







So as the pics show, it's quite subtle. Is this anything I should worry about?

Oh yeah, and further (more substantial) damage is visible in the top-left of pic #1...

This is definitely a concern, as I will inevitably want to use this thing to tow.

Hammer the damage straight and plate the area with some 1/8" material.

rysam said:

my xj was totaled for the exact same damage. I would plate it and rock on if nothing is affected and the tweak isnt severe. .
heres a pic of mine for reference.
http://i42.tinypic.com/20itl4i.jpg
they totaled it because obviously the cost of repairs would exceed the value of the jeep.

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Looks familiar:


As for the OP's issue, I wouldn't tow at all with that! :scared:
I took a much more drastic approach to "fixing" mine, but it you want your XJ to be correct ever again you'll need to check and ensure that the unirails are straight and square with each other (I'm highly doubting they are based on your pictures, like the 1st one in the upper left). If not you'll have to have the unirails pulled back with a frame machine. Simply "hammering the damage straight" isn't going to do you a whole heck of a lot of good as it'll never come back to true square.
Once everything is straight I'd plate both sides of each unirail with at least 10 gauge well past the effected area. That unirail area is super super thin (see here) and it'll take some serious reinforcing to gain its strength back after being bent like that. I'd also throughly check the hitch before putting it back on to make sure it doesn't have any cracks at the welds or other damage.

RCman said:

Looks familiar:

<snip>
As for the OP's issue, I wouldn't tow at all with that! :scared:
I took a much more drastic approach to "fixing" mine, but it you want your XJ to be correct ever again you'll need to check and ensure that the unirails are straight and square with each other (I'm highly doubting they are based on your pictures, like the 1st one in the upper left). If not you'll have to have the unirails pulled back with a frame machine. Simply "hammering the damage straight" isn't going to do you a whole heck of a lot of good as it'll never come back to true square.
Once everything is straight I'd plate both sides of each unirail with at least 10 gauge well past the effected area. That unirail area is super super thin (see here) and it'll take some serious reinforcing to gain its strength back after being bent like that. I'd also throughly check the hitch before putting it back on to make sure it doesn't have any cracks at the welds or other damage.

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Thanks for the info, that's what I was ultimately afraid of... This is a shot in the dark, but how much does such a procedure typically cost? Additionally, at what type of a repair shop would I be likely to find a frame machine?

Again, thanks a ton!

EDIT - And another thought... I bought this vehicle from a dealership "AS-IS" a little over a week ago. I'm obviously a smacktard for not looking closer, I know (lesson learned), but am I protected in any way by lemon laws or anything of that nature? I'm beginning to worry about what else will be wrong with this thing...

anthrax323 said:

Thanks for the info, that's what I was ultimately afraid of... This is a shot in the dark, but how much does such a procedure typically cost? Additionally, at what type of a repair shop would I be likely to find a frame machine?

Again, thanks a ton!

EDIT - And another thought... I bought this vehicle from a dealership "AS-IS" a little over a week ago. I'm obviously a smacktard for not looking closer, I know (lesson learned), but am I protected in any way by lemon laws or anything of that nature? I'm beginning to worry about what else will be wrong with this thing...

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Any good auto body repair shop will have the equipment to do it.
I was quoted ~$500 if I did some of the prep work for mine.

As for lemon laws, I'm not sure how NC is, but I know in MA you have 30days (or something like that). I'm not at all familiar with those regulations and laws. Didn't carfax used to guarantee something?

RCman said:

Any good auto body repair shop will have the equipment to do it.
I was quoted ~$500 if I did some of the prep work for mine.

As for lemon laws, I'm not sure how NC is, but I know in MA you have 30days (or something like that). I'm not at all familiar with those regulations and laws. Didn't carfax used to guarantee something?

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Thanks for the info. I scheduled an appointment with a local shop with a frame machine for tomorrow morning to get a quote. In the mean time, I'll do some research on NC laws to find out whether or not I'll even have any recourse.

In your honest opinion, tell me... I paid $5900 for the vehicle w/ 126,000 miles on it. Given that this is the only real problem I've found (other than wearable components designed to fail), is it even worth pursuing a refund or would it be wiser just to go ahead and fix/reinforce it?

anthrax323 said:

Thanks for the info. I scheduled an appointment with a local shop with a frame machine for tomorrow morning to get a quote. In the mean time, I'll do some research on NC laws to find out whether or not I'll even have any recourse.

In your honest opinion, tell me... I paid $5900 for the vehicle w/ 126,000 miles on it. Given that this is the only real problem I've found (other than wearable components designed to fail), is it even worth pursuing a refund or would it be wiser just to go ahead and fix/reinforce it?

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Any XJ for $5900 better be in tip top shape. I'd call around and see what all your options are. After you get a quote from the local shop, contact the dealer and see what they will/will not do. Of course, research the NC laws and see if they even have to do anything for you.

Hammer it flat, plate it and forget it.

My 2000 XJ has been lightly rear-ended twice now. I have some tweak in the frame-rails and I flat tow my CJ-7 to the trails with my XJ.

Early XJ's with the Jeep tow package had a hitch that engaged all 4 of the bolts on a factory nut strip. They also had a frame-rail reinforcement plate the runs from the rear cross member to the rear axle bump-stop holes (pic 1). My 2000 has a short 3 bolt aftermarket hitch that ends at the leaf spring pocket (pic 2), and has the factory skid plate. You can clearly see (pic 3) where the force of the getting hit in the hitch transfered to the gas tank skid plate (instead of the frame-rail) and then along the frame rail to where the gas tank skid ends.

Instead of having any expensive frame work done, make (or have made) something similar to the factory frame plate and then locate and install a hitch that engages all the frame rail nut strip bolts. Use 1/4" steel for extra overkill. Pound the the frame flat, install the plates and hitch and drive it.

I think you overpaid for your XJ even if it was straight, but that's just me. Instead of spending any more money on it, make it strong and run it as is.

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RCman said:

Any XJ for $5900 better be in tip top shape. I'd call around and see what all your options are. After you get a quote from the local shop, contact the dealer and see what they will/will not do. Of course, research the NC laws and see if they even have to do anything for you.

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Yeah, what he said^^^:eyes:

Thanks for all the input... At this point, I'm not too excited about what lies ahead. After replacing the battery (on day 3, with little choice), all 4 shocks (Monroe Sensa-Tracs with the load-adjusting models in the rear), the front sway bar bracket bushings, and an oxygen sensor (bank 2, post-cat), I'm already becoming a bit weary of further repairs.

I have an appointment at 8:30 tomorrow morning with a local collision center for an estimate, so we'll see how that goes. If they can straighten it and make it as true as possible for a small sum (<$400), I'll do some research on a shop who can reinforce the frame rails in a fashion that will make it safe to tow with.

I'm definitely disappointed that I overpaid for this XJ, but aside from these problems the thing is rock-solid. No squeaks, no rattles, but an occasional noise from the back-right corner when hitting more intense bumps that I sincerely hope can be resolved by removing the rear sway bar.

I guess the bottom line is I haven't owned a Jeep in almost a decade (an '87 Grand Wagoneer was my first car), and want to make the most of the experience. I personally think I lucked out in finding a 2001 with the factory tow package (including 3.73's and a 29-spline 8.25"), but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess we'll just have to see how it goes tomorrow. I'll definitely get some better pictures of the damage and rear hitch tomorrow evening when I will hopefully be jacking the thing up and removing the rear sway bar (and looking for any other problems :-/).

Update:
Just got a quote from body shop #1 (Triangle Collision in Morrisville, NC) which came out to $840 and some change. It looks like 2.5 hours of labor are on there for removal and re-installation of the hitch (at $44/hr), so I might just go ahead and remove it myself beforehand to save ~$110 if I end up using them. I get the feeling several more quotes are in order.

Since frame damage has now been confirmed by a collision center, what would you guys recommend as a next step? Would I be eligible to file an insurance claim considering it happened before I owned the vehicle? If I did, I assume it'd ultimately result in devaluation of the vehicle due to documented frame damage in its past, but then again I honestly think I'll keep this thing for long enough that it won't matter in the slightest down the road. If it makes any difference, I have comprehensive coverage on the vehicle with a $250 deductible for collision claims ($0 for "comprehensive" claims).

Additionally, the gentleman at the repair shop said that following their repair, it would be safe to tow at capacity without any additional reinforcement (I threw out the 5,000 lb rating) - is there any shred of credibility to this whatsoever?

And a final note... Who would be the best person/organization to talk to regarding my recourse as a relatively scammed used car purchaser in NC?

Lots of questions, I know, but thanks in advance!

anthrax323 said:

Thanks for all the input, guys.

rhinoron713 - Wise in the ways of sarcasm, you are . Yeah, I know it's a unibody, but it does have underlying frame rails to which everything is welded (which is what I was referring to).

93gc40 - It does drive straight, but I haven't had it long enough to know whether or not the tires wear evenly (I've driven it maybe 600 miles thus far). There's no creaking that I can hear, just occasional clunking over larger/more intense bumps at higher speeds (which I think is due to the rear sway bar, which I'll be removing this weekend). Hitting small bumps and maneuvering is rock-solid and silent otherwise after replacing the rear shocks.

rysam - Thanks a ton for the pic - my damage is similar but thank God it's not nearly as substantial. It's subtle enough that my dumb ass didn't notice it while looking over the car before buying it, but now I wish I'd looked a bit closer.

I'll get some pics as soon as possible. Thanks for all the input in the mean time!

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An '01 for that price? I dunno... I think you *might* have overpaid but I'm not sure, if you like it other than the frame issue I'd say stick with it, if you're keeping it for more than a few years the difference in price becomes pretty insubstantial. Another thing you can check for the rattles and clunking on larger bumps is the exhaust pipe hangar right before the catalytic that goes to the transfer case crossmember. A few things I'm now paranoid about, after purchasing my own lemon to repair piece by piece (which I would recommend you check while you're under there): rusty brake lines, rusty fuel/fuel return lines, and rusted out exhaust hangars.

I'd say shop around for another body shop and see if you can find anything lower. Also I doubt he's correct on the frame strength issue, I'd put reinforcement plates on for sure.

anthrax323 said:

I personally think I lucked out in finding a 2001 with the factory tow package (including 3.73's and a 29-spline 8.25"), but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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After Chrysler took over, the tow package no longer included deeper gears. You have 3.55's.

With proper reinforcement, frame repaired or not, as long as the frame isn't rusted away, towing should be no problem.