Valving Question

[Ryan93]

Hey need some advice on valving, going to be picking up some Fox 2.0 this week for the front and need some help on valving options.. I am running RE coil. Read something about 255/70 for 7100s is that a universal valving or strictly Bilstein? thanks guys.

-Ryan

[Loose_Nuts_Enterprises]

That's a valving system, unique to bilstein. I've got no idea how to convert that to the standard valving.

-Dan

[yossarian19]

Similar question-
I like to drive my rig fast but on uneven bumps it has excessive "rock" or side-to-side motion, pretty jarring...
Whats one step up in firmness from a Monroe Sensatrac? It seems like the springs are overpowering the shocks, throwing the Jeep around a bit...

[J Money]

I'm running some 2.0's with remote resvoirs just like they came out of the box. They work pretty good.

[live24wheel]

I am interested in the same thing. I picked up some Fox 2.0's about 2 weeks ago. I talked to Fox and he said the valving theyh come with unless otherwise stated is 60/40 I believe it was. It seems to be working well but im really no expert on shock valving, "They just feel better than my RS 5000's at speed over whoops, and don't fade!" lol

[Ryan93]

That's a valving system, unique to bilstein. I've got no idea how to convert that to the standard valving.

-Dan

yea thats what I heard.. oh well ill just get it out of the box and go from there thanks guys

-Ryan

[slcpunk74]

I am interested in the same thing. I picked up some Fox 2.0's about 2 weeks ago. I talked to Fox and he said the valving theyh come with unless otherwise stated is 60/40 I believe it was. It seems to be working well but im really no expert on shock valving, "They just feel better than my RS 5000's at speed over whoops, and don't fade!" lol

WTF is 60/40? Did they tell you what shims that was?

[slcpunk74]

I'm running some 2.0's with remote resvoirs just like they came out of the box. They work pretty good.

They should have been valved for a certain app... So I don't think out of the box really applies.

[live24wheel]

WTF is 60/40? Did they tell you what shims that was?

Nope that is exactly what he told me. I told him what I was putting them on and he said ohh yeah I have those same ones on my XJ. He said I might want to valve them a little softer, then I told him that I will be hitting whoops and jumping it some and he said they should be perfect. IDK, like I said, im new to the prerunning shocks and stuff.

[Ryan93]

the guy at McKenzies told me the shocks came out of the box at like 60/40 I think

[slcpunk74]

the guy at McKenzies told me the shocks came out of the box at like 60/40 I think

Then I guess your set... Damn I wish everybody would just have the same valving system. I really like the shim thickness system, it is easy to translate into general thought. I can hold and measure a .08 stack, I can't hold or measure a 60/40 or whatever.

[Skullver]

here is some data I found about fox valving, I'm sure a call to fox would clear it all up:

55 is 1.600, 1.425, 1.300 X .010 and 1.100, .950 X .012

60 is 1.600, 1.425, X .010 and 1.300, 1.100, .950 X .012

[live24wheel]

Ok maybe I can help clear the waters here. I just pulled out the instructions that came with my Fox 2.0 Remote Reservoir shocks. I will copy what the valving information says in the instructions.

"3. General Valving Information
On the end of the shock shaft is a piston with (8) holes. (4) compression and (4) rebound. Layered on either side of the piston are washers in different diameters and thickness. These washers make up the shim stack. The shim stack has to flex to allow the flow of oil in either direction of the shock. When the shock compresses, this is call compression and when it extends, this is called rebound.

The shim stacks come in ranges from 30 to 110. The higher the number, the more damping force the shock will have.

When the shocks are built, we engrave the damping number on the shaft eyelet just under the rubber bottom out bumper. The first number relates to the compression shim stack, the second number to the rebound stack. If there is nothing engraved on your shock eyelet, then you have the standard 40/60 set up."

Hopefully that will help some, it gave me an idea of what the heck is going on.

[Ryan93]

well bought them today came as 40/60 we shall see how it goes :cheers:

[Baja_XJ]

So whats a good valving for Bilstein Shocks?

[JeepFreak21]

That's a valving system, unique to bilstein. I've got no idea how to convert that to the standard valving.

-Dan

From http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORgd.asp?Manf=All

Understanding Bilstein Valve Ratings
Damping forces of Bilstein valvings for Off-Road are measured in Newtons at a velocity of 0.52 meters/seconds (approximately 20 inches/second). The ratings shown correspond to those measurements; rebound force is the first number, followed by compression force (rebound / compression). Conventionally, the ratings are written as one tenth the damping force in Newtons.

EXAMPLE: Valve rating: 275 / 78
Rebound force is 2750 Newtons at 0.52 m/s

Compression force is 780 Newtons at 0.52 m/s
Higher numbers mean higher (firmer) damping forces. For example, 360/80 has more control (is firmer) that 275/78, while 170/60 has less control (is softer) than 275/78.

I dunno if that helps, but hopefully...
Billy

[Loose_Nuts_Enterprises]

This has better info...rebuild guide (http://www.bilsteinus.com/7100_Rebuild.pdf)

Scroll down and you'll find the shim sizes and thicknesses. They metric, so you'll have to convert to standard, and compare with the US companies shim stacks.

-Dan

[ECKSJAY]

This has better info...rebuild guide (http://www.bilsteinus.com/7100_Rebuild.pdf)

Scroll down and you'll find the shim sizes and thicknesses. They metric, so you'll have to convert to standard, and compare with the US companies shim stacks.

-Dan

I was just about to post that guide. :D:D:D

[Loose_Nuts_Enterprises]

I was just about to post that guide. :D:D:D

Haha...beat ya to it.:D

[ECKSJAY]

Haha...beat ya to it.:D

I had customers in front of me. Damn them! :looser:

[Baja_XJ]

275/78 or 255/70 better?

[Jes]

I prefer the 275/78 over the 255/70 for daily driving, rock crawling, and go fast stuff. I was told by "experts" that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference but those valvings feel quite different to me.

Edit: I am running a three link with very flat link angles though so that may have something to do with the sensitivity.

[live24wheel]

So I went out and checked today just for the shit of it and sure enough, mine aren't 40/60 like they were supposed to be. They were actually 30/90. I called Fox and they were very helpful and are going to re-valve them for free for me. So, my question is, should I go to the general 40/60 or can some body give me a better idea of where I should be around...

Thanks

[live24wheel]

Ok just to keep the info I got up to date, or whatever... I talked to the race guy at Fox about my setup and my use. Told him I DD, Crawl, and go fast, hit whoops and jump, more like baby hops but I try. He said the best for me, based on minimal up travel, 4.5", I should be good with 70/50. I can't wait to get my shocks back from Fox now.

[Baja_XJ]

Leave me feedback on how the perform!

[Baja_XJ]

Ive got mine at Fox being valved 38/80 for the front and 20/80 in the rears, I'll leave feedback on how I like mine as well

[jeepme]

Ive got mine at Fox being valved 38/80 for the front and 20/80 in the rears, I'll leave feedback on how I like mine as well

Wow for high speed stuff that seems backwords. I would think you would want stiffer compression and lighter rebound. You will have light compression and stiff rebound with those numbers. I would think you would want it more like live24wheel's set up.

[live24wheel]

Ive got mine at Fox being valved 38/80 for the front and 20/80 in the rears, I'll leave feedback on how I like mine as well

Yeah, I though you were going to go with 40/60 or 60/40 in the front...

[Baja_XJ]

I talked to a guy named Bill at Fox and thats what he recommended. He said with added compression and softened rebound it would almost to the point of unsafe on the street. I told him I drive alot on the street and I want valved halfway between street and Jeepspeed and those are the numbers he gave me since Im not running swaybars. I guess Ill be trying this setup as a starting point and adjust from there. I was going with 60/40 up front but then I decided to call in and see what they suggested first.

[live24wheel]

Thats weird because they told me almost the opposite. Is Bill the guy in the race department? I don't remember the name of the guy I talked to but I do know the 2 different guys in sales gave me completely different numbers and were just basing it of there DD Cherokees..... Not hitting whoops or anything.

[Baja_XJ]

I went to offroad (8) then sales (1)

[live24wheel]

I went to offroad (8) then sales (1)

I went to sales too and then after enough questions he transfered me to the race department. When I called back, if you listen to the ext. after sales (1) racing is around (5) or (6)

[Baja_XJ]

Im gonna get on that then, maybe Bill just dont know WTF hes talkin about

[live24wheel]

Im gonna get on that then, maybe Bill just dont know WTF hes talkin about

lmao... I picked that up realllly quick from the salesman I talked too....

FYI to everyone else, I have run the 70/50 front for 2 days now and am very happy with it. It works really well so far. What Are you guys running pressure wise in your front bumps? I had them put at 100psi per the race dude at fox but think that might be a bit light. I jumped it a little and hit a couple good bumps and its using all but about a 1/2 inch of the bump travel... I haven't hit whoops or really jumped it yet, What do you all think? BTW, FOX 2.0 inside the coil.

[live24wheel]

OK I just talked to Bill in Sales to find out who it was in the racing department that I talked too.... It was Todd, he made the valving recommendation and so far im happy with it, Friday night I will put it through its paces on the whoops and washes and see how it does.

[live24wheel]

Ok, just wanted to give everyone an update since my trip out last night. I pushed the Jeep pretty hard using about every bit of power I had. The shocks and air bump combo worked absolutely amazing from what it used to be. It took the whoops and little jumps like a champ. The 70/50 valving worked perfect. In fact, the cv in my rear drive shaft is trashed, and now my power steering is acting up. At a dead idle the power steering is a no go, but if I give it like 100-200 rpm, it is perfect. Anyone ever heard of or seen that before?

[Loose_Nuts_Enterprises]

Ok, just wanted to give everyone an update since my trip out last night. I pushed the Jeep pretty hard using about every bit of power I had. The shocks and air bump combo worked absolutely amazing from what it used to be. It took the whoops and little jumps like a champ. The 70/50 valving worked perfect. In fact, the cv in my rear drive shaft is trashed, and now my power steering is acting up. At a dead idle the power steering is a no go, but if I give it like 100-200 rpm, it is perfect. Anyone ever heard of or seen that before?


Your pressure relief valve in the PS pump may be sticking. Try pulling it out, see if there are any burrs on anything, clean it up and put it back in. It's where the pressure hose threads into the pump. Tale the hose off, then use a 1" socket(I think) and unscrew the whole valve. There is a spring an a ball in there. If it's stuck, the ball will be low in the hole. If it is, you'll need to stick a screw driver or something in the hole an give it a tap. Be ready, because when it releases, it will go flying. While you have it apart, look up West Texas Offroad's redneck Ram website. They have a really simple mod to increase the pressure and flow of the pump. If you do that, don't go crazy with the shims, more is not better. I over did mine once and blew the end cap out of my steering box.

Hope that helps...

-Dan

[SPXJ]

Ok, just wanted to give everyone an update since my trip out last night. I pushed the Jeep pretty hard using about every bit of power I had. The shocks and air bump combo worked absolutely amazing from what it used to be. It took the whoops and little jumps like a champ. The 70/50 valving worked perfect. In fact, the cv in my rear drive shaft is trashed, and now my power steering is acting up. At a dead idle the power steering is a no go, but if I give it like 100-200 rpm, it is perfect. Anyone ever heard of or seen that before?


Are you running a sway bar?