Roll cage critique please......Take two.

[mmyers]

Sorry about the other thread. I got the pics working. I can't edit my post after 60 min??? What's that all about?

I have thick skin.

If you have something that would help this design, please feel free.

The rockers were replaced with 3x6" box. Tied to a frame rail cap. That part is SOLID.

Hit me.

http://www.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=4755365&sessionkey=CQUNDTUQBSZBBHDJBTHH

http://www.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=4755366&sessionkey=CQUNDTUQBSZBBHDJBTHH

Tube is a tad on the small size. 1.5" .120" wall. Hence the sheer amount of triangles.

[XJguy]

Pic no worky

XJguy

[KarmirXJ]

like I said in your previous post...


those Xs have good triangluation. will survive in a hard role.:D

[mmyers]

WTF??? They come up fine for me...........

I'll see if I can tweak it again.

Might have to go to take 3.

This is killing me.

M.

[mmyers]

try this. http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=471296

Maybe one of you 'puter savvy dudes can make it work

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/371723/08230045.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/371723/08230044.JPG

[KarmirXJ]

damn, you built a jungle gym for the kids or what??:D

it seams pretty good to me.. nice looking rig.


there is alot of tubing converging into the middle. IMHO this cage will do fine. but you might want to add some metal like I did in the pic below... just to be on the safe side. I tied those two long bars together keeping it from getting bent inward. yo u have pretty much braced it from getting crushed downward, which is the major concern.

IMHO overall very nice...

[XJguy]

Holy tubing Batman!!!!!!!!!

WTF.......well you may just have the ugliest but attractively unique XJ Ive seen so far!!

With that much tubing even if you are aff on the triangulation I dont think anything is going anywhere. But I do see you did not add tubing direclty over the suspension mounts, you probably should have since you have nothing limiting your design at this point.

Better use a helmet in that gym and get some SFI rated padding, a roll cage can kill just as easily as it can save. (if not easier)

I do have a suggestion, you have reinforced just about the whole Jeep but left the front clip dangling there all by itself. Add some more tubing to tie in and triangulate the front end, you ll have your buggy, I mean XJ, a whole lot longer with the added support.

Now all you need is fiberglass panels and no one will know :)

Good work.

XJguy

[mmyers]

Done???? Heh! Never!

The ass end is going to the dump. I have a set of coilovers showing up in a day or two. I plan on dovetailing the ass to match the rear bars, and chop away the "frame" rails to make room for a four link rear and D60.

The front will do as is for a while, but it will also go to the dump soon.

This was my first tube project. The bending was to simple with bedtechs software. I used the 14 day free trial program, so I did it in a few days.

It looks deceiving, but there is tons of room in the *cough* cab. When the 5 points are cinched down, I don't jit anything. Hell when the belts are tight, I can't even reach the shifter to get it out of park!!

I ordered about 40 gussets just to make sure. Engineer I'm not.

A sawzall is very theraputic.

[Beezil]

did you weld the gussets on yet?

[RichP]

Geeze. get a big enough overhead hoist and you could lift it off the floor to work under it. It is unique though, ever consider buying a bare CJ/YJ frame and starting from scratch ??
Boy, if I tried somthing like that where I live the property owners association would be down on me like a shot...

[Flowers]

I'm no expert on Roll Cages, nor am I an engineer, but I'm suprised nobody has mentioned the lack of "nodes". Converging the tubes to a single point will add structural integrity to the cage. You have a few, such as where the B pillar meets the triangulated tube protecting the passengers. Also, and I know a cage is not about "form", but I think this is why the cage looks so discombobulated. You definitely have plenty of trangulation.

Flowers

[KarmirXJ]

you might wan to tie the back end in some more and take out the middle jungle gym. this way it would be less tubing, and more effiecent no?

http://community.webshots.com/photo/79267869/88988354nzAvpv

[Jump This]

Are you telling us that started out as an XJ? What do you intend on doing with it? Be the first person to DRIVE over Niagara falls???I think I could feel safe in a rig like that!!:D

[mmyers]

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
you might wan to tie the back end in some more and take out the middle jungle gym. this way it would be less tubing, and more effiecent no?

http://community.webshots.com/photo/79267869/88988354nzAvpv

I plan on burning in some lateral bars to tie the rear struts together, and to mount a spare there. The middle looking mess braces the crap out of the B hoops.

I'm not afraid of the extra weight. Look at all of the weight removed!! I don't want a 90% forward weight bias with coilovers.

[MaXJohnson]

Originally posted by mmyers
... lateral bars to tie the rear struts together, and to mount a spare there. The middle looking mess braces the crap out of the B hoops.

I am feeling some bad karma here. I am not feeling a flow.

I am not one with the tubing.

Mike, are you the cage?

Can you feel like a cage? Can you be the cage?

You are creating some bad cage karma here. Your cage is not flowing.

If the Jeep Gods haven't trashed your life yet, they are meeting to do so.

Take a deep breath and look at your Jeep.

Yes, Mike; it hurts. Your Jeep is in pain. It has no balance. It has no flow.

Breath in. Close your eyes.

Feel how the tubes can flow from the forward load points into the central hoop.

The hoop has strength.

Feel the inner strength of the hoop. It is POWER. It is INVINCIBLE.

Feel how the tubes can flow from the rear load points into the central hoop.

The hoop is ready to receive. the hoop is ready for you to merge.

Your cage is everywhere. It's strength is nowhere. It has no flow.

Close your eyes.

Take a deep breath.

There is a wooden roof truss in your minds eye...

Be the truss. Feel the power of the truss. See how the energy of the mountain flows through the truss.

It is good.

It is power.

It will give you the positive karma that you yearn.

The cage that surrounds you will protect you.

Trust your Jeep. Be one with your Jeep.

Be one with the tubes.

The twin hoops design is a good thing. You can feel the energy radiating from the tubes.

Oh Fawk!!!

I knocked over my beer!

Anyway, think of the cage as a truss. Same as a roof truss.
The force at the suspension pick-up points need to feed into the central hoop. The twin hoop design is fine, but the rest of it is way too busy. Your Jeep "looks" front heavy. You should consider some sheet metal panels in the rear to provide balance. Build them with tear-away mounts. They are expendable. They are easy to bend out of flat sheet steel. They will balance your Jeep.

Build an "A" hoop. Build the twin "B" hoops. Join them. You have a box with six sides. The floor strengthens the bottom side. The firewall strengthens the front side if you attach to the door hinge points. "X's" will strengthen the remaining sides. Don't make it so easy to enter and exit. It's a trail rig. Go with the flow. build some "X's". Attach them at the corners of the box.

Now the box is strong.

Run some tube from the corners of the box to the suspension. It the tubes are too long, brace them. They form a wedge. The floor strengthens the bottom of the wedge. Triangulate the remaining sides.

While you are building triangles, think of the ways they can help attach HiLift jacks and big spare tires.

Take a deep breath.

Weld, weld, weld.

Your karma is flowing.

Your karma is becoming positive...

[KarmirXJ]

wow max... now thats some S*|t!
I couldnt come up with that kinda stuff even If I tried....

Props!!! please PropS!! Lets here the clapping!! everybody know, clap together!!!

:D


I will hang your 'Karma poem' on my wall:D

[Beezil]

Max, when you spilled your beer, I hope you didn't soak your KGB

[Jump This]

There was no KGB left.....he became one with the puff!!!

[mmyers]

Originally posted by MaXJohnson
I am feeling some bad karma here. I am not feeling a flow.

I am not one with the tubing.

Mike, are you the cage?

Can you feel like a cage? Can you be the cage?........................



http://www.nagca.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

I'm BBQ'ing Tofu now............

[Beezil]

lotta guys offering critique here, except I haven't seen enough pics from different angles yet....

have any more pics?

[4ward]

I'd like to see a shot directly from the back. Standing on top of the Grand's hood would be the best angle. I can't tell, but it looks to me like the 2 spreaders you have going from the center triangulation point out to the farthest back down tubes is pretty much useless. Those very same downbars would be a good bit stronger if there was no turn down bend at the end of them. Unless of course you have some giant gusset in there. Give us some more pics please.

Sean

[mmyers]

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
you might wan to tie the back end in some more and take out the middle jungle gym. this way it would be less tubing, and more effiecent no?

http://community.webshots.com/photo/79267869/88988354nzAvpv

The horizontal bar you painted is exactly where I will put a cross piece to mount the spare.

The vertical you painted is on hold til I cut away the rear, and triangulate some stuff for the rear coilovers.

In no way is this done.

M.

[bgcntry72]

I can't tell if that will save you, or kill you in the event of a hard roll.
A for effort, though.

[MonsterXJ]

I have no cage! i have no karma! oh shit! BTW why dont u just make an EXOSkeleton around the front, that would protect the front and it already looks like madness anyways. and i like the idea of puttin some sheet metal on the back to make it more "normal"