building fell over.

[tbburg]

I'm not an expert, but I do have a little background in construction and engineering. This just looks wrong to me:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/28/article-0-05815B1E000005DC-497_634x528.jpg

Is it just me, or should there be some rebar sticking out of the broken ends of these pilings.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/28/article-0-05815B98000005DC-762_634x475.jpg


news story from the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1196064/Tumbling-tower-China-Amazing-pictures-13-storey-block-flats-toppled-over.html)

[bluejeepkid]

ya, there should be rebar. i guess they didnt find it necesary to reinforce the concrete???

[Kiefer316]

Makes me wonder about the rest of em. not to offend anyone, but i bet mexicans built em.

[tbburg]

Makes me wonder about the rest of em.That was the second thought through my head. "I wonder how hard it'll be to get tenants for the rest of the buildings?"
not to offend anyone, but i bet mexicans built em.Are you suggesting that the Chinese have an illegal immigration problem from Mexico?:laugh2::roflmao::laugh2::roflmao::laugh2:

[RTicUL8]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/28/article-0-05815B1E000005DC-497_634x528.jpg

Look at the bottom of the picture - in the middle.
It that the rebar laying on the ground?

.

[Wayne Sihler]

China importing cheap Mexican labor ? Just how cheap will a Mexican work for ?

Wayne

[bluejeepkid]

China importing cheap Mexican labor ? Just how cheap will a Mexican work for ?

Wayne


hahahahahah

[bluedragon436]

Yes that is a pile of rebar!! If you look at the close up pic of the bottom of the building there is one pilon of nothing but rebar sticking out right above the heads of the crouching rescue workers!! What more rebar use would you want!! JK!! I Know what they are supposed to do with rebar in building, and that is not it between one small pilon and a pile of it off to the side!! They were goign to add the rebar at a later time... leave them alone!! LOL!! On top of that the surrounding area doesn't look too much like it was really prepped to have a building built on it anyways!! I realize that the building fell over and probably disroupted it some... but it really didn't look like it was prepped properly to me!!

[RichP]

I wonder if anybody was home....

[benXJ]

that soil and the way it was prepared looks inadequate to support that building. obvoiusly. just the slightest bit of wind would cause tremendous rotational force.

[muddyrocks]

Think about this... if there were no rebar in those piles, they would be snapped off. This shows unsettled ground. The building was put on earth that had not been compacted. Furthermore, the piles were not into bedrock.

Designed to fail.

[bluejeepkid]

who needs rebar??

[redneckboarder]

isnt there supposed to be some sort of foundation other than the pylons? or is that pretty normal (im far from an engineer but ive built a few houses and dug many more foundation holes)

[tbburg]

isnt there supposed to be some sort of foundation other than the pylons? or is that pretty normal (im far from an engineer but ive built a few houses and dug many more foundation holes)The foundation stayed with the building. Literally the whole thing just fell over. If you look at the first pic, you can see the building fell over basically intact. All the damage appears to have occurred when it hit the ground. There is obviously some reinforcement at the tops of the piles, or they would have fallen off where they snapped at the foundation(notice how they're all leaning, but still attached). What freaks me out is every one of them broke(tension failure) 5-15" under ground. I don't know about China, but here, those piles would have to have been at least 40"-50" deep(or to bedrock depending on soil condition) and reinforced all the way down.

[hubs97xj]

Am I mistaken, or are those supports all hollow?

[tbburg]

They look hollow to me.

[dennis461]

Am I mistaken, or are those supports all hollow?
Yes, hollow pre-stressed spun concrete. Rebar started getting phased out in the 80's for precast stuff. Still used and necessary for pour work.
Notice, the piles did not crack and break off after falling 100+ feet. They are plent strong and if I'm not mistaken, they are bolted together end to end to go taller.
No doubt the piles below grade were too short for the type of soil.
Like fence posts, even in mud, you can make a strong fence if the post is deep enough.
The piles at a large cooling tower on an artifical island in the Jersey swamps go 200 feet down.
The whole thing may settle, but it will stay vertical while it does.:paperwork

[camarors8992]

Whoops.

[BobDog]

I bet in China...if you say you're an engineer.....well then you are one! This is why that Harbor Freight stuff is so high quality.:D

[bjoehandley]

Am I mistaken, or are those supports all hollow?

It sure looked like it earlier, almost looked like they used sewer pipe for these pilings.

[T3hk1w1]

Actually, it looks to me like the building did not remain intact at all-if you look at it carefully, it looks like the building had a serious structural failure occur(besides falling over :hang: ). It appears that the side of the building now lying on the ground was vertically displaced from the side now on the top-the displacement line is visible as a long jagged crack running along the row of windows. The extent of the displacement is visible if you look at the decorative facing running along the top of the second floor-its shifted vertically(according the original orientation of the building) at least 3 feet.

[bjoehandley]

I'm not an expert, but I do have a little background in construction and engineering. This just looks wrong to me:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/28/article-0-05815B1E000005DC-497_634x528.jpg

Is it just me, or should there be some rebar sticking out of the broken ends of these pilings.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/28/article-0-05815B98000005DC-762_634x475.jpg


news story from the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1196064/Tumbling-tower-China-Amazing-pictures-13-storey-block-flats-toppled-over.html)

Actually, it looks to me like the building did not remain intact at all-if you look at it carefully, it looks like the building had a serious structural failure occur(besides falling over :hang: ). It appears that the side of the building now lying on the ground was vertically displaced from the side now on the top-the displacement line is visible as a long jagged crack running along the row of windows. The extent of the displacement is visible if you look at the decorative facing running along the top of the second floor-its shifted vertically(according the original orientation of the building) at least 3 feet.

Just looking at the building and ground, I'm kinda wondering if maybe the ground had been washed out or undermined from under that part of the building before it fell.

[tbburg]

Actually, it looks to me like the building did not remain intact at all-if you look at it carefully, it looks like the building had a serious structural failure occur(besides falling over ). It appears that the side of the building now lying on the ground was vertically displaced from the side now on the top-the displacement line is visible as a long jagged crack running along the row of windows. The extent of the displacement is visible if you look at the decorative facing running along the top of the second floor-its shifted vertically(according the original orientation of the building) at least 3 feet.I have to disagree. I'm no engineer, but every pic I've seen of a building that collapsed, large portions of the structure are rubble. This building has a lot of damage, but no more then I'd expect if you laid anything that size over on it's side. I think it's surprisingly intact. There is a failure line running up the building like you say, but I think that happened as a result of the fall, not the cause of it. I'm basing this on the whole foundation staying attached to the building, pulled up and laying on it's side. Usually when a building collapses(from a base structure failure, anyway), the bottom floors break up, and what's left(if anything) is the top floors sitting on top of a pile of rubble. This thing just fell over.

Any way you look at it, ouch!

[Matthew Currie]

They must have accidentally used materials intended for export.

Eating their own dog food?

[bigalpha]

Moar.

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20090627_14.jpg

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20090627_15.jpg

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20090627_16.jpg

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20090627_18.jpg

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20090627_19.jpg

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20090627_20.jpg

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20090627_21.jpg

[$450JEEPxj]

I wounder what the fire fighters are looking at? and did some one hollor timber just be for it fell?

[AIbandit]

maybe thats the area that the body is at

[JeepAddict85]

shoulda used grade 8 bolts...:doh:

[ocean_jet]

The disaster could reveal some uncomfortable facts about lax construction practices in China, where buildings are put up in a hurry by largely unskilled migrant workers, and developers may be tempted to take shortcuts.

According to Shanghai Daily (http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200906/20090629/article_405753.htm), initial investigations attribute the accident to the excavations for the construction of a garage under the collapsed building. Large quantities of earth were removed and dumped in a landfill next to a nearby creek; the weight of the earth caused the river bank to collapse, which, in turn, allowed water to seep into the ground, creating a muddy foundation for the building that toppled.

The South China Morning Post noted that the pilings used in the Lotus Riverside development, made of prestressed, precast concrete piles, are outlawed in Hong Kong because they aren’t strong enough to support the kind of ultra-high buildings that are common in Hong Kong. But in mainland China, they are often used because buildings there are typically much shorter.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinajournal/2009/06/29/shanghai-building-collapses-nearly-intact/

[tbburg]

The disaster could reveal some uncomfortable facts about lax construction practices in China, where buildings are put up in a hurry by largely unskilled migrant workers, and developers may be tempted to take shortcuts.It's a good thing I live in Phoenix where we don't have those problems!:rolleyes:

:wow:maybe it's time to move,....